Terrier- Maybe we have had this convo, but Ive been asleep since then <G>. I'll find a brain one day Im sure :).
Dan.

terrier

As BRS is jointly owned by the Australian Macquarie Airports Group and the Spanish Ferrovial Aeropuertos company (part of Grupo Ferrovial), do you know which of these companies has bid for EXT, or is it a joint bid?

When Macquarie Bank and Cintra (another subsidiary of Grupo Ferrovial) tendered for BRS they did so through a joint company called Tidefast Limited. Presumably it is possible they might make a similar bid to acquire EXT.

Macquarie also part owns airports at Birmingham, Brussels, Rome and Sydney, and AFAIK only at Sydney is Ferrovial involved, albeit with a minority part of the ownership.

Do the local authorities intend to retain part ownership of EXT?

Devonair,

EXT is certainly doing well with Flybe but I doubt that it has the catchment area to truly rival BRS in term of pax numbers and routes. EXT has a lot of catching up with BRS heading towards 5 million pax this coming year.

I shall watch the Flybe Paris route from EXT with great interest because BACx charges fairly expensively on its route from BRS to CDG, at least compared to low cost airlines. We keep hearing rumours that easyJet will start to serve Paris Orly from BRS but I'm not sure about the slot situation at the French end.

MerchantVenturer - I Believe Devon County Council will maintain a 20% stake in the airport. The remaining 80% going private.

Terrier21 - I would never suggest EXT would surpass BRS in terms of being the main airport for the SW region. I do feel however that EXT's catchment has been underestimated by a number of airlines. Devon and Cornwall's population totals 1.5 million. In recent years the city has also attracted a large number of companies from the South East; the Met Office and French energy giant EDF (amongst others). The business community were hugely supportive of FlyBE's CDG announcement. I would also say certain routes, such as CDG (as you said) and BES will attract people from Somerset and Dorset. I feel what has happened the past year has been a catch up situation, and I feel that the airport's pax figures are more in line with what it should be. Looking forward to more announcements in 2005 and hopefully a new scheduled airline arriving on the scene. I know VLM were looking a while back (AMS).

What are your views on the SWRDA setting up route development funds to attract airlines (as there are in NI and Scotland). I think it is something that needs to happen.

Devonair,

Thanks for info re local authority and EXT.

Now that Scotland and Northern Ireland have led the way (and I believe the Welsh Assembly is starting the ball rolling there) it must surely be inequitable if English regions don’t follow suit. Incidentally, I believe the Eastern ABZ-BRS route operates with a RDF subsidy from Scotland.

From a personal point of view, I am not sure that I agree with public money being used in this way, although I understand the economic arguments. I think that private companies, which airlines and airports are after all, should operate on a commercial basis with minimal public financial assistance. However, now the floodgates have been opened in parts of the UK, we must all try to join in or risk falling behind.

There will always be allegations of favouritism of parts of a region over others. There is already the perception in the Bristol area that the SWRDA favours the far southwest generally over the remainder of the region. Basing itself in Exeter (which I am told styles itself ‘regional capital’ – is that true?) doesn’t help to allay these suspicions.

Were it based in Bristol I am sure there would be similar allegations from Devon and Cornwall.

There was talk that Flybe approached the SWRDA for support on the Exeter-Paris route. I don’t know if this is true and, if it is, whether any support was forthcoming, however marginal. But you can imagine the reaction of BACx and BRS if Flybe and EXT did get support for their CDG route for example and the former airline and airport didn’t on their route to the French capital.

I do agree that EXT was under served and it is now starting to build a decent route structure. I am sure there is more to come. I know people from Bristol who use EXT, whether because of more competitive fares, better flight timings, route not flown from BRS (such as YYZ) or simply that they just prefer it as an airport. I expect the reverse sometimes happens with people who live around Exeter. BRS and CWL are similarly used by people from both those areas.

All this is good news for the air traveller from/to the southwest of Britain because there is more choice, and it is growing.

Exeter does style itself as "regional" capital but only in the SW Peninsular term for region (Devon & Cornwall and Exmoor). There is much talk down here that the SW region is too Swindon/Bristol orientated. You can see why the Cornish aren't excatly thrilled by the idea of being run by people in Bristol when Bristol is closer to Manchester than it is to Penzance (I digress!). I assume many SWRDA initiatives are geared more towards Devon and Cornwall as they are the most economically disadvantaged. I assume with route developments certain routes from say Newquay would be given priority over the same route from Bristol because of obvious economic reasons. Like you said we have to compete with the other areas of the UK. I believe the North of England RDA's are about to instigate route development funds for airports such as Blackpool and Carlisle.

A Bristolian yep can confirm your rumour regarding BRS TCX to PMI next year a flight with cruise pax I believe. Pretty sure the crews enjoy it. The flight deck were all BRS based so they should do ;)
MV and Devonair. Thanks for the info about EXT as it is my next port of call so its great to hear about lots of things going on down there. The staff that I have met seem to be very very friendly. Devonair, what times is EXT at its busiest and when is it so quiet. Im just trying to work out shift systems in my head.

Anyway good thread keep it going folks.

SJD

Sorry to bring this up yet again...but is there any update as to when the TBPB/BGI flight is operating out of EGGD this year? I heard it was due to be in February sometime, but Ive heard no more, and the Bristol Airport website is about as helpful as a chocolate fireguard. If someone could give me a date or some kind of info Id be grateful.
Dan.

Devonair

You are right about the southwest government region. It is a bit of a dog's dinner. I heard John Prescott on telly at the time of the northeast referendum talking about how a regional government might work in the southwest. He accepted there would be major difficulties because (as he put it), "Devon dislikes Cornwall, Cornwall dislikes Devon and they both hate Bristol."

I think a Cornish MP once described Bristol as a suburb of Birmingham. In truth, with the high tech industries etc stretching along the M4, it is more like an outer suburb of London.

I suppose Exeter gets things like the SWRDA and Southwest Tourism HQs based there because the city is reckoned to be geographically central to the government region, although Taunton probably has a better claim in this regard. If the same criteria dictated the Welsh capital it would be at Newtown or Welshpool.

Back to air matters, the important thing is for the region as a whole to be able to be reached easily from the rest of the country and from Europe, and if RDFs have to play a part, so be it, because although I'm not keen on them we cannot be disadvantaged down here if the rest of the country follows that route.

I note your opinion re BOH being more south of England than southwest, and anyone other than the government would agree with this. However, and I'm sure you are aware, Bournemouth and Poole are actually in the government's southwest region (and thus the responsibility of SWRDA), although Southampton is not. Therefore BOH would presumably have to be considered for any SWRDA route funding.

BTW, EXT arrivals have now joined BRS and CWL arrivals on page 452 of Ceefax. Can't be a bad thing because it will show a wider audience the flights available from there.

SJD: In response to your question re:

Devonair, what times is EXT at its busiest and when is it so quiet. Im just trying to work out shift systems in my head.

The first scheduled flight out and back in the morning and evening is to Jersey/Guernsey. The Majority of FlyBE other services occur between 10 and 4. Exeter Airport's website (and Ceefax 452) now shows live arrivals and departures so if you log on tomorrow morning you should get a good idea of when its busiest. If you do look at it tomorrow or Saturday you'll see quite a few to Manchester (FA Cup 3rd Round Man Utd V Exeter City!)From the end of March this will change as Paris comes on stream and Edinburgh becomes twice daily. The first Paris flight leaves at 06:30 I believe and the second EDI flight will land at 22:20.

ATCO...having a play in my system the 757 can get off Rwy 09 with all pax and bags as long as temp stays relatively low. Tried at 10c and it is fine then tried it at 25c and things go a little awry - probably have to offload about 20-30 pax

25C in Bristol??? U must be kidding, thats like an all time high!!!

When i first heard about Bristol winning this contract I was somewhat surprised. I like others thought the main issue would be the length of the runway. However, with the success at Bristol, I can fully understand why Continental would prefer to base their operation at Bristol as against Cardiff.

I fully agree that COA would have looked into the statistics and whether they could make it out with a full load; however, maybe they are cleverer than we all give credit for.

Is it possible they could be covering themselves and wondering about the need to open a split route if pax figures don't quite make it profitable? They could use needing fuel as a basis for a tech stop and eventually it creeps in as a split load. Maybe not Bristol - Cardiff split, they may be too close together for that - It has been done in the past But not transat (stand to be corrected!!) Maybe split with Glasgow?


TIO

ATCO1987
I believe it is on the 3 february. The website is currently being redeveloped so that is the reason it hasnt been updated for a while should be unveile in the next couple of weeks.

MV
Not sure who has put in the bid or if anyone definatly has just a rumour.

TIO
I think shannon would be the ideal destination if it did ever become a split load (hope it doesn't) with no service there yet you could sell BRS/SNN seats as well I guess.

T21

TIO - GLA is too successful to consider GLA/BRS spilt load. The other new flight though BFS could be a thought for the winter

I started a thread a few days ago asking if anyone had any news or rumours on how bookings were going on the CO BRS-EWR. No-one came forward with any positive news or rumours one way or the other.

We now have people in this thread talking about the possibility of split loads. I hope this is mere conjecture with no basis.

It will be a major disappointment and I think a big surprise, or perhaps shock is a better word, to the BRS management if this route is not successful, without the commercial need to split it.

A/c capabilities are something else of course but if 'a bristolian' is the person I think he is I am quite certain he knows what he is talking about, and I accept his assertion that the equipment to be used will cope with BRS's limited take-off conditions.

very much conjecture on my part. I believe route to be very successfull

It is conjecture on my part,

However, choose some dates in the summer and look on the continentl website. I did and the chepeast seat I could get was over £600. I think i'll go and pay the car parking at heathrow and fly from there for less than £250.00.

How can it get close with this kind of price gap.

TIO

P.s. - The £250.00 figure was a BA flight.

Turn it off

You are of course quite correct there is a major deifference in pricing at the momen. What we have to remember is that this is a new route and if I were CO I would whack my prices up high to start with to see if there are any takers. The prices are dropping and, I'm sure, will continue to drop.

T21

When the CO BRS-EWR route was first announced there were some complaints in the local Bristol press and local radio message boards about the high prices. I checked the Continental booking site then with random dates and the prices did seem high - anything from the equivalent of £500-900.

However for each set of random dates I chose then I also checked the established CO route from BHX to EWR and I found then that the prices from BHX were identical to those from BRS on the same dates.

I have just repeated the exercise with almost the same result. I put in random dates and periods in each of June, July and August.Prices from BRS ranged from1162.85 USD to 1763.85 USD. BHX fares were the same for one of these periods, eleven dollars cheaper for another and 86 dollars dearer for the third.

I then tried a couple of random dates from BHX for January and February (the BRS route does not start until May) and found return flights for 440.85 USD and 469.85 USD. I also remember finding BHX fares of around 500 USD for last September when I checked a couple of weeks beforehand.

Given that winter fares are often cheaper the moral still seems to be - wait as late as you can before booking.

Press release around the end of this month concerning BA and BRS and the routes for the 5th 145 to be based there. BRS is turning out to be a good little money earner and easy are no competition. Would be surprised if we do anything domestic with it though?

Any info from your end Dash7 rumours floating around here are milan, a second frankfurt and an extra edi.

not sure how dash 7 lover meant the line " and easy are no competition " but the fact that BACX are rumoured to be putting an extra EDI service on means that both EASY and BACX are obviously doing well out of BRS.
It also proves the findings that the LOCOs generate new business because far from killing BACX off , their pax numbers must be up to pre GO levels meaning that the hundreds of pax that travel Easy each day between EDI and BRS are new business.
I also suspect that Easyjets presence at Brs helps BACX and vice versa because it increases awareness locally of the routes available from BRS.

just my opinion

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0300b...name_page.html
In the report within this link is a quote from BRS MD, Andrew Skipp, that he expects the airport to attract 5.3 million pax in 2005, up from 4.5 million in 2004.

I suspect the next announcement will be that setting out the work for the fifth BACx ERJ 145.

I am not sure if the already announced CO service to EWR and the Excel Airways/Freedom Flights programme that involves two based aircraft this summer will account for much of this increase in pax numbers, or whether there are more significant announcements to come.

I am still confident there will be the odd tech stop on this Continental route!

As the yanks would say PERIOD !:ok:
As I would say, BENCH. There is only one person on this website that will get that joke!:D

Terrier/Stalling and Merchant

Not heard of the plans for the 5th 145 at BRS, no doubt people will be told the day before!. Nothing will start until the end of March when the summer 2005 stuff kicks so something will have to be announced in time to get the rosters/manning levels sorted.........but wouldn't surprise me if it was MXP....

Theres rumours flying round that SAS will be coming to EGGD very soon to pick up EZY's CPH, but thats as old as the hills also a lot of talk about Lufthansa and some new german routes, anyone got any info on this?
Windsheer me ol mucka as much as it hurts me to say this, i reckon you could be right bout the old fuel stops with CO, i'm sure there wont be very many but its bound to happen sometime, especially if it cant get off Rwy 27 and has to go for 09.

:rolleyes:

LADS LADS LADS !!!

Why is it that whatever the subject is someone always has to bring the subject of the CO 757 having to tech stop, its been discussed, and I think that we should trust in the airlines judgement and that of certain people posting on this forum. Can we please now just drop the subject.

FB

Drop the subject? NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.

Really.....Yeah alright then! :ok:
Now that we have all agreed there will be tech stops!;)


:p

Tech stop or not Tech stop that is the question, does it matter?! We will have to wait and see.

Anyway back to the forum BIA have finally release a press release regarding xl.com :-EXCEL AIRWAYS LAUNCHES 50,000 EXTRA SEATS AT BRISTOL INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT


Bristol International Airport is set to expand its summer 2005 programme, with the introduction of new services by the world’s leading charter airline, Excel Airways.

Excel Airways will fly to 17 destinations, including Cyprus, Greece, Turkey, Spain and the Canaries. The airline will base a 737 800 aircraft at Bristol from May 2005, adding an further 50,000 seats to the airport’s summer 2005 programme. Excel Airways will provide people in the South West a unique service, providing the widest range of low priced ‘flight only’ destinations, compared to any other scheduled and charter airline.

XL.com, which was launched on Tuesday (11 January), will enable people to book their flights online. The site now offers excellent ‘flight-only’ deals and later this month will also offer hotels, villas and car hire. It will be the first time that people in the South West can create tailor-made charter holidays to a fantastic range of summer-sun destinations. Unlike other low cost airlines, Excel Airways will offer additional customer services such as hot in-flight meals, children’s meals, and in-flight entertainment – all the things you would expect when you book a package holiday.

‘Flight-only’ prices start from £79 return to Malaga, Alicante and Faro in May. Using the additional services available on the website, including hotels and car hire, a seven night package to Benidorm on full board basis starts from £245 per person in June. Car hire costs from £135 per week with Avis.

The arrival of Excel Airways will see 50 jobs created at the airport - a boost for the local and regional economy, and the airport.

Tony Hallwood, Bristol International Airport’s Aviation Development Director, said:

“Excel Airways will bring a unique charter service to Bristol International, giving people in the Westcounty more ‘flight only’ choices than ever before at very competitive prices. The award winning airline will not only create new jobs at the airport but will also create an extra 50,000 seats to major holiday destinations, expanding the airport’s summer 2005 flying programme. This is great news for Bristol International and reaffirms our position as the South West’s premier airport.”

Martin Lock, Director of Marketing at Excel Airways, commented:

“We are delighted to be introducing additional services at Bristol International Airport. XL.com will enable people across the region to build their own holidays at their convenience, and will offer them very competitive prices.

“The major expansion of services from Bristol International coincides with the launch of XL.com, with the aim of making it even easier and more convenient to book your summer 2005 break. We plan to continually add ‘flight-only’ products to XL.com, which is a brand new travel portal offering customers the complete travel solution.”

BA have also spent a bit of money on promoting their new fares unfortunatly you need to book by the 25th of Jan to qualify. BRS to CDG and MUC for £89 return. Is this to promote their cdg route before EZY announce Orly?

T21

Sorry - but no tech stops - LAST LAST TIME - The wingletted B757's will save fuel to allow more payload and the airline has FAA approval for a good tail wind component using 27.

Dont worry Windsheer even if you dont see it at your local apt - you will see every day rolling off 27 direct to New York.

The end.

terrier

Possibly more to do with the Flybe initiative to CDG from EXT with their even lower fares, which of course might turn out to be introductory fares to this new route and not sustained over a longer period.

All this talk of CO to EWR and the argument over tech stops led me to look for details of the runway at BRS, especially the TODA on 09 compared to 27. I could find nothing on the BRS official website and a Google search did not help either.

Can anyone provide these details or suggest a website that might help me. Also is it the rising ground to the east of the field that restrict's 09's TODA or are there other reasons?

Thanks for any help.

M.V. on google type in "TORA at bristol airport "you should get UKGA.com which says TORA for 09 1978m(1938) + r/w 27 is 1938(1876) landing distances in brackets:ok:

Someone has mentioned rumours of FR possibly starting flights to the munich area and possibly shannon, split load? Ive always been suprised how FR have never come in to BRS as a bit of competition to U2. Personnally I believe there would be a strong market for some of their 'Not city center' Destinations. Any views from FR insiders reading??? (*hopes*).

Also would there be a possibillity of BRS stealing the emirates off of CWL now that seems to have taken a back seat?

Just had a quick comparason between flybe and ba EXT/CDG and BRS/CDG for the same dates; 28mar-04apr, 25apr-02may and 23may-30may flybe came out on top but not by a massive difference. 28/03 BE £107.78 BA £121.80, 25/04 BE £57.78 BA £78.80, 23/05 BE £67.78 BA £109.80.

Most of the extra cost goes down to Taxes and charges with BA's T&C's almost double that of BE.

T21

Ok ok, no more mention of CO BRS-EWR, Should be ok, I mean Astreus manage to get a 737 to BJL twice a week from BRS to BJL without refuelling as far as i know anyway, which surely must be a struggle?
Ahh Bristol International the possibilities are endless, what next Fokker 50's to SFB maybe?
Damn I love this place.:ok:

...And where is that easy 737 to Cork! Sorry, couldn't help it! :D

Ok, leaving CO and EWR but staying within the extremely wide scope of this thread, I note from the weekly Ceefax and also the weekly online Mayfly that a Balkan Holidays A 320 flies in and out every Saturday morning from/to Sofia. This is in addition to a similar aircraft from/to Plovdiv later each Saturday morning.

Sofia does not appear on the BRS website list of ski flight destinations. Does anyone know if this flight will operate throughout the ski season? It appears to have been flying each Saturday since the start of the season and the Mayfly indicates a continuance up until at least Saturday 29 January (the latest Mayfly available online).

As far as I can tell from Mayfly there are fourteen weekly ski flights from BRS (same number as last year?), and they are all at weekends (after the usual varying days at the start of the season around Christmas/New Year).

The official BRS website is not helpful. Apart from not showing Sofia on this winter's list of ski flights (assuming it is one) they are still showing a weekly flight to Grenoble which appears not to have been operated.

Furthermore. there is no list of summer 2005's charter flights whereas the summer 2004 list is still there.

Tom,

Where indeed? :eek:

MV - The Sofia flights have not operated to date and doubt they will at all.

I was pretty sure when i was in the big ol bristolian green house the other day that S-air were checking in a Balkan SOF flight, it was defo on deptartures board, I'll do some more investigating lads and get back to y'all, also the GNB was with FCA and is now not being operated, and yes i agree the BRS website is a sad state of affairs!!:ok:

BHAir Sofia hasn't operated so far. Astraeus get to Banjul in one go and haven't had to refuel as yet, although the weight has been an issue on occasion. Everyone's talking about new flights and a 5th Embraer: where will all these planes park? Isn't it going to be tight even with the western apron extension?

Peeps......ref my last post concerning a 5th 145 at BRS...... . Not sure where it will come from. All 29 145\'s in BACX are tied up with flying with 2 on maint at any one time. The last spare 145 that commercial promised from the cancellation of the 3x daily MAN-CPH route turned into another spare 146! Watch this space or should I say watch the RJ100 fleet ? ? ? rumour rumour rumour

It's Milan, Zurich and a second daily Frankfurt rotation.

Following press release is on BRS website.


A significant investment by British Airways will see new routes from Bristol International Airport to Milan and Zurich, and extra flights to Frankfurt from April this year.

To celebrate, British Airways will be making 75,000 seats available at an introductory offer of just £79 return, and fully inclusive, on all a three routes.

Some additional jobs will be created, mainly in customer service areas.

The new routes and additional frequency are results of British Airways’ decision to base a sixth Embraer 145 regional jet at Bristol from the start of the summer 2005 schedule.

Flights to Zurich, Switzerland depart daily, Sunday to Friday, at 8.40am. Flights to Malpensa in the Italian city of Milan will depart daily, Sunday to Friday, at 1.40pm with a Saturday departure at 8.40am. The new routes launch on April 4, and bring the total number of destinations served by British Airways at Bristol, to eight.

British Airways has operated daily flights between Bristol and Frankfurt for 10 years, and from April 3, will increase frequency to twice a day, Monday through to Friday with single services on Saturday and Sunday, adding an extra 660 seats a week to the route. The additional flight will depart at 7.30pm.

Steve Cassidy, general manager commercial, from the airline’s subsidiary, British Airways CitiExpress, said: “British Airways is committed to delivering a value for money product to people who value the way they fly. The first 75,000 customers to book return seats on our Milan, Zurich or Frankfurt services before March 20, will travel for just £79 return, fully inclusive. We have worked closely with our colleagues at Bristol International Airport to identify opportunities and are delighted to announce these two new routes to Milan and Zurich, and to offer additional flights for our regular travellers to Frankfurt.

“Milan and Zurich offer fantastic opportunities for both business and leisure. Milan has many cultural highlights as well as excellent shopping and restaurants. Its road and rail infrastructure make it a perfect gateway to the Lakes and Mountains regions of northern Italy. Milan hosts most of Italy’s manufacturing, and many advertising, publishing and high-tech companies are based there. The city also has a sizeable financial services sector.

“Zurich is the economic hub of Switzerland, home to the country’s stock exchange and major banks and insurance companies. The city has superb nightlife, and its lakeside setting and proximity to the Alps makes it an attractive leisure destination.”

Tony Hallwood, aviation development director at Bristol International Airport, said: "Bristol International Airport is pleased to be working in partnership with British Airways CitiExpress to deliver important new business links to Europe. Both Zurich and Milan have featured in our top ten list of most requested destinations and we are now delighted that British Airways has introduced these services. The key new routes, alongside the additional frequency to Frankfurt, will help us further support businesses across Bristol and the whole South West region."

I presume the reference to a sixth ERJ 145 being based at BRS is a mistake because I thought the additional a/c would be the fifth.