BA staff walkout @ LHR
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Marlowe
Your conspiracy theory was certanly not true when I was involved in the iARM programme a couple of years ago and there are a lot cheaper ways of forcing a confrontation than implementing this approach, if a confrontation was the agenda.
Unless FSAS has dramatically altered BAs thinking, outsourcing mission critical services at LHR is a no go - although I have to say that I'm a little out of touch.
iARM was always about modernising the capability of the business with a robust application that was well proven elsewhere - which is why the particular supplier was chosen.
As others have said, swiping in and out was accepted elsewhere in the business - in fact as a conbsultant I had to do this too.
Your conspiracy theory was certanly not true when I was involved in the iARM programme a couple of years ago and there are a lot cheaper ways of forcing a confrontation than implementing this approach, if a confrontation was the agenda.
Unless FSAS has dramatically altered BAs thinking, outsourcing mission critical services at LHR is a no go - although I have to say that I'm a little out of touch.
iARM was always about modernising the capability of the business with a robust application that was well proven elsewhere - which is why the particular supplier was chosen.
As others have said, swiping in and out was accepted elsewhere in the business - in fact as a conbsultant I had to do this too.
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BA has recently recruited some radical young MBA’s from a leading business school. They have persuaded the board of directors to implement Buffalo Theory. The thought process goes as follows.
A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. When the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first.
This natural selection is good for the herd because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members.
In much the same way, an airline can only operate as fast as the slowest SLF. Excessive intake of SLF at peak periods, as we know, kills airlines. Naturally they attack the slowest and weakest (T1) first.
In this way, strikes eliminate the weaker SLF, making the airline a faster and more efficient machine.
That's why management always feels better after a strike.
QED: Buffalo Theory
A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. When the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first.
This natural selection is good for the herd because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members.
In much the same way, an airline can only operate as fast as the slowest SLF. Excessive intake of SLF at peak periods, as we know, kills airlines. Naturally they attack the slowest and weakest (T1) first.
In this way, strikes eliminate the weaker SLF, making the airline a faster and more efficient machine.
That's why management always feels better after a strike.
QED: Buffalo Theory
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To be honest I have not read through all 15 pages of this, it would take too long!
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Having also followed the thread with interest because of various travel plans and requirement that do involve BA, I have heard the pro stikers and the cons.
Protestations of miserable working conditions, facing unruly and demanding pax, were reasons; money and swipe cards were definitely not the reason??
Union rep on tonights news wasn't so coy. Swipe cards was definitely a big issue.
It also appeared in the thread, mention of manual entry being considered as something of a 'perk' that all adds up by the end of the year.
Yes the situation is adding up. It appears that modernisation and tightening of the system is unacceptable as it threatens to do away with 'perks'.
BA is tightening it's belt along with many others in the face of the massive downturn in the travel business which has been hard hit by 9/11 a world recession SARS and general financial uncertainty. They have been fighting a long hard battle along with many other industries. Many people have had job layoffs and paycuts, but that appears not to have figgured in the plans of the strikers, who have indeed dealt BA a massive financial blow.
They do not have the support of the rest of the airline. What they are doing is ensuring the crippling of the company they work for, and jepordising the livelehoods of all BA staff. They have definitel alienated the passengers who ultimately are the reason they have a job, and whose money pays them their salaries. They have ignored the mechanisms set up to arbitrate, and have demonstrated an ignorence of todays financial picture. It is not a very good time to be endangering your jobs.
National Airlines like Swissair and Sabena have very recently gone under, others are on the brink. The job market is not good for the unemployed.
But then I am sure they thought about that, or was it just the best time in the year to make a point, just when it would be really busy and give the airline a really hard kick in the b#lls to make them sit up and pay attention?
Well it certainly succeeded in that, but who knows what else it has succeeded in doing!
Protestations of miserable working conditions, facing unruly and demanding pax, were reasons; money and swipe cards were definitely not the reason??
Union rep on tonights news wasn't so coy. Swipe cards was definitely a big issue.
It also appeared in the thread, mention of manual entry being considered as something of a 'perk' that all adds up by the end of the year.
Yes the situation is adding up. It appears that modernisation and tightening of the system is unacceptable as it threatens to do away with 'perks'.
BA is tightening it's belt along with many others in the face of the massive downturn in the travel business which has been hard hit by 9/11 a world recession SARS and general financial uncertainty. They have been fighting a long hard battle along with many other industries. Many people have had job layoffs and paycuts, but that appears not to have figgured in the plans of the strikers, who have indeed dealt BA a massive financial blow.
They do not have the support of the rest of the airline. What they are doing is ensuring the crippling of the company they work for, and jepordising the livelehoods of all BA staff. They have definitel alienated the passengers who ultimately are the reason they have a job, and whose money pays them their salaries. They have ignored the mechanisms set up to arbitrate, and have demonstrated an ignorence of todays financial picture. It is not a very good time to be endangering your jobs.
National Airlines like Swissair and Sabena have very recently gone under, others are on the brink. The job market is not good for the unemployed.
But then I am sure they thought about that, or was it just the best time in the year to make a point, just when it would be really busy and give the airline a really hard kick in the b#lls to make them sit up and pay attention?
Well it certainly succeeded in that, but who knows what else it has succeeded in doing!
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Paterbrat......there is a fair amount of support for the terminal staff from across the front line of the company......the bulk of cabin crew support them (even if they don't support their methods). Much of the feeling against the check in guys has come from the support staff in the airline who must be getting pretty nervous by now as very few more staff & resources can be cut from the front line. It is high time that the number of support staff within BA was addressed; we have far more support staff per aircraft than AF & LH before evn considering the LCCs. In cabin services management want to reduce cabin crew levels on aircraft & cut service further. We're talking 3 crew on an A320, 11 on a 777 etc etc.........yet recently another tier of management was introduced within the department from 4 to 5.
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Candybender
Anyways, forget what your perception of the internal attitude is within BA (although I don't share your view across the board). The relevant issue is what everyone OUTSIDE of BA think...and I say it again....most importantly your CUSTOMERS...You know, those people that buy the airline's services and in doing so expect SERVICE...something they sadly are not getting right now?
You and your perceived colleagues can be as 'lovey dovey' with each other as much as you like, but without a job or without an employer to pay your way it will be a bleak wake indeed at the end of a dole queue! Ever sat in one of the DHSS offices waiting for a handout?...not that one would be deserved in this case.
Your customers, the media and just about everybody else (including a sizeable section of BA staff) have already delivered their verdict! Maybe you guys and girls have candy whatsits stuck in each ear, so as they are not listening! Earth calling mars bars comes to mind
Anyways, forget what your perception of the internal attitude is within BA (although I don't share your view across the board). The relevant issue is what everyone OUTSIDE of BA think...and I say it again....most importantly your CUSTOMERS...You know, those people that buy the airline's services and in doing so expect SERVICE...something they sadly are not getting right now?
You and your perceived colleagues can be as 'lovey dovey' with each other as much as you like, but without a job or without an employer to pay your way it will be a bleak wake indeed at the end of a dole queue! Ever sat in one of the DHSS offices waiting for a handout?...not that one would be deserved in this case.
Your customers, the media and just about everybody else (including a sizeable section of BA staff) have already delivered their verdict! Maybe you guys and girls have candy whatsits stuck in each ear, so as they are not listening! Earth calling mars bars comes to mind
Last edited by Jack The Lad; 24th Jul 2003 at 14:40.
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Candy bender, as a customer, my thoughts on the actions of the counter staff are.
Foolish.
Self destructive.
Self serving.
Bloody minded.
I hope that the airline survives.
I will continue to try and travel with BA.
I still believe that there are many staff who are proud of the airline and what it represents, though the chances of their jobs surviving have been made much harder by the selfserving actions of a few. If you don't like the job, feel that there is better elsewhere, exercise your right to leave and seek employment elsewhere, don't ruin the things for thousands of others who do want to work, and passengers who wish to travel on BA.
Foolish.
Self destructive.
Self serving.
Bloody minded.
I hope that the airline survives.
I will continue to try and travel with BA.
I still believe that there are many staff who are proud of the airline and what it represents, though the chances of their jobs surviving have been made much harder by the selfserving actions of a few. If you don't like the job, feel that there is better elsewhere, exercise your right to leave and seek employment elsewhere, don't ruin the things for thousands of others who do want to work, and passengers who wish to travel on BA.
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if you only employ partimers at minumum wage-ish conditions you wont get loyalty or willingness to understand and cooperate.
Most of the employees involved in the dispute could get a similar waged salary at Tesco,,,do they care?? Should they care??? Any attempt to change things regardless of its alleged efficiency and no change in conditions is looked at with suspicion and often with distrust...it a cultural thing.
The problem at BA is more on how things are said and actioned than what was said and the real reasons behind it.
Most of the employees involved in the dispute could get a similar waged salary at Tesco,,,do they care?? Should they care??? Any attempt to change things regardless of its alleged efficiency and no change in conditions is looked at with suspicion and often with distrust...it a cultural thing.
The problem at BA is more on how things are said and actioned than what was said and the real reasons behind it.
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I've got you. Doesn't matter how sensible it is or if it makes financial sense, you have to say it nicely or we walk?
Can't travel far working for Tesco's.
Can't travel far working for Tesco's.
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Paterbrat
Well I don't know how many BA employ in Jeddah, but here in London, I have yet to meet anyone who doesn't support the check-in staff
There is no method to arbitrate - the company are introducing the new working practices without the agreement of the staff. The national officer of the GMB stated 'document which contains the swipe-card scheme, and also something which implies flexitime' - but the company refused to discuss with the unions and forced this new system onto the staff.
The staff are exercising their rights - the right to withdraw their labour. Now that may be not allowed in Saudi but here in the UK, its something that a lot of people do (including Flight and Cabin crew)
They do not have the support of the rest of the airline.
They have ignored the mechanisms set up to arbitrate,
If you don't like the job, feel that there is better elsewhere, exercise your right to leave and seek employment elsewhere, don't ruin the things for thousands of others who do want to work, and passengers who wish to travel on BA.
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I have read most of this thread and if I am stating that already quoted I apologise.
I concur that the passenger indeed does suffer with action of this type. However, it is hadly new or unusual to the UK travelling public whether it be air, rail or bus that they will always take the brunt of it.
What I have to question though is many of us blame the staff entirely for these problems. Surely senior management should also be responsible for taking action at an inappropriate time seemingly also having little regard to the travelling public.
Finally, the baggage transfer belt system between Terminal 1 and Terminal 4 broke down the week before the strike thus there was already 7000 bags stuck at LHR (info given to me by a HAL baggage services manager).
Sadly this is just another example of poor communication within a UK company which in itself. On July 17 Lord Marshall stated 'Staff take key role in leaner,fitter airline'.
I concur that the passenger indeed does suffer with action of this type. However, it is hadly new or unusual to the UK travelling public whether it be air, rail or bus that they will always take the brunt of it.
What I have to question though is many of us blame the staff entirely for these problems. Surely senior management should also be responsible for taking action at an inappropriate time seemingly also having little regard to the travelling public.
Finally, the baggage transfer belt system between Terminal 1 and Terminal 4 broke down the week before the strike thus there was already 7000 bags stuck at LHR (info given to me by a HAL baggage services manager).
Sadly this is just another example of poor communication within a UK company which in itself. On July 17 Lord Marshall stated 'Staff take key role in leaner,fitter airline'.
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Crikey !!!! I cannot believe you bunch of doom-mongerers out there predicting the demise of BA !!!!!!
Get real, yes it has had an effect and will do so for the short term. Yes it wll hurt the company financially at an already dfficult time, and finally YES, YES, YES people will return and the loads will return.
Heathow is one of the best airports in the world for a massive selection on route availability and frequency, mostly served by BA - this has not changed and will not change.
What should now change is the relationship between management and staff on the front line. It is not right - obviously, needs to be addressed now and in the future grievences be handled proerly by management - that really is one of their main functions no ??
Get real, yes it has had an effect and will do so for the short term. Yes it wll hurt the company financially at an already dfficult time, and finally YES, YES, YES people will return and the loads will return.
Heathow is one of the best airports in the world for a massive selection on route availability and frequency, mostly served by BA - this has not changed and will not change.
What should now change is the relationship between management and staff on the front line. It is not right - obviously, needs to be addressed now and in the future grievences be handled proerly by management - that really is one of their main functions no ??
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After years of pain in the aviation industry, (Terrorist Threats, SARS, War, Bob Ayling) I was impressed with the way BA was trying to restructure, without the assistance received by other airlines. We all know the stories about American Carriers after 9/11 and various European Carriers being propped up by their respective governments. I was of the opinion that when the cycle turned and the industry improved BA would be a lean, strong airline.
That however changed in one day, by the actions of a few (by BA numbers) selfish individuals.
Did any of Check-in Staff think about the customers (Those people that pay your salaries) you left sitting in the terminals? I don’t even think it crossed their minds.
The real ramifications of what they did will not be felt for a while yet, but it will be felt.
Customers always have a choice, and those individuals made the choice a bit easier.
I feel that the Management of BA should be held responsible to degree, but they are trying to keep you employed.
I personally feel that BA should make a statement to their Customers, in an attempt to try and restore some confidence in the airline and Fire every single person that walked out. What they did was illegal and BA would be well within their rights to do so.
To all the other members of BA staff, I feel for you, and hope you and the airline are able to overcome the problems. I just hope that you don’t suffer if the downturn in business happens.
El Jefe
That however changed in one day, by the actions of a few (by BA numbers) selfish individuals.
Did any of Check-in Staff think about the customers (Those people that pay your salaries) you left sitting in the terminals? I don’t even think it crossed their minds.
The real ramifications of what they did will not be felt for a while yet, but it will be felt.
Customers always have a choice, and those individuals made the choice a bit easier.
I feel that the Management of BA should be held responsible to degree, but they are trying to keep you employed.
I personally feel that BA should make a statement to their Customers, in an attempt to try and restore some confidence in the airline and Fire every single person that walked out. What they did was illegal and BA would be well within their rights to do so.
To all the other members of BA staff, I feel for you, and hope you and the airline are able to overcome the problems. I just hope that you don’t suffer if the downturn in business happens.
El Jefe
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Dispatcher
Remember a certain Gerald Ratner, and his chain of jewellery shops? Remember his remarks about the products, which caused the customers to desert the shops in droves? It was a sound business, yet it doesn't exist now.
To echo other commentators here, it doesn't matter what the internal support for the check in staff is. It doesn't matter if the customers are pissed off by the incompetence of management in forcing the action, or if the customers are pissed off by the selfishness of those walking out.
Without customers the business won't exist, and management and staff (however defined) won't have jobs. Simple.
cur
Remember a certain Gerald Ratner, and his chain of jewellery shops? Remember his remarks about the products, which caused the customers to desert the shops in droves? It was a sound business, yet it doesn't exist now.
To echo other commentators here, it doesn't matter what the internal support for the check in staff is. It doesn't matter if the customers are pissed off by the incompetence of management in forcing the action, or if the customers are pissed off by the selfishness of those walking out.
Without customers the business won't exist, and management and staff (however defined) won't have jobs. Simple.
cur
Having watched this from the outside and on Pprune (I'm only slf), I was interested in the sympathy shown by the CC for the ground staff on the flight I was on last Sunday back to LHR. If I were able to fire anyone at BA for this, the sackings would start at the top of the personnel (or have they adopted the pretentious term 'HR'?) department for not realising the strength of feeling amongst the workers. I can't understand the management still insisting on introducing the system when negotiations are still ongoing. Talk about provocation!
Sacking all strikers would, I suspect, lead to even more chaos, since someone has to do the work. Replacements would have to be trained, and that couldn't happen overnight.
It's very sad that this mess has happened - but sadder still that management couldn't have negotiated rather than getting high handed. I thought management in the electronics industry was poor until I looked at the way airlines are run.
Having had the benefit of using BA a lot and being served by the excellent and generally caring LHR and LGW ground staff, I'm afraid my sympathy is with them - and none at all for BA (mis)management.
Sacking all strikers would, I suspect, lead to even more chaos, since someone has to do the work. Replacements would have to be trained, and that couldn't happen overnight.
It's very sad that this mess has happened - but sadder still that management couldn't have negotiated rather than getting high handed. I thought management in the electronics industry was poor until I looked at the way airlines are run.
Having had the benefit of using BA a lot and being served by the excellent and generally caring LHR and LGW ground staff, I'm afraid my sympathy is with them - and none at all for BA (mis)management.
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Radeng,
Well said. For years BA management have subscribed to the Ghengis Kahn school of man management, believing that the more you beat your staff into submission and show them no respect, the more they're just bound to be motivated.
One of the strikers is a friend, and believe me, the staff agonised over the decision to walkout. At the end of the day, they were left with NO alternative, their worries, concerns and grievances were simply being ignored.
Shame on you Skippy and your (mis)Managent Muppets, did you learn nothing from the dark days of Captain Bob?
Well said. For years BA management have subscribed to the Ghengis Kahn school of man management, believing that the more you beat your staff into submission and show them no respect, the more they're just bound to be motivated.
One of the strikers is a friend, and believe me, the staff agonised over the decision to walkout. At the end of the day, they were left with NO alternative, their worries, concerns and grievances were simply being ignored.
Shame on you Skippy and your (mis)Managent Muppets, did you learn nothing from the dark days of Captain Bob?
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radeng
I too am only SLF these days, but my total sympathy is for the poor passengers who didn't deserve to be abandoned by people paid to look after them. There is no excuse for what they did, no matter how you try to apportion the blame away from them. How can you balance a grievance about a new method of clocking on and off against the suffering of the guy who was trying to get home to his seriously ill wife in Australia? His was just one case in thousands.
I notice the Union bosses are now on TV with their usual threats of a ballet for industrial action. Where were they before this, and were their fingers on the pulse of the people they represent? If so, how come an unofficial, illegal walk out? Not very efficient on their part either, for the salaries they pull.
I was in a job all my working life where I couldn't strike, and I'm afraid I have no sympathy for people who's first choice these days seems to be to go home, no matter what the repercussions are for others. (Don't mention the Firefighters!)
I'm flying with my family from BOH to PIK this evening. I have every confidence it will be trouble free! (I hope!)
I too am only SLF these days, but my total sympathy is for the poor passengers who didn't deserve to be abandoned by people paid to look after them. There is no excuse for what they did, no matter how you try to apportion the blame away from them. How can you balance a grievance about a new method of clocking on and off against the suffering of the guy who was trying to get home to his seriously ill wife in Australia? His was just one case in thousands.
I notice the Union bosses are now on TV with their usual threats of a ballet for industrial action. Where were they before this, and were their fingers on the pulse of the people they represent? If so, how come an unofficial, illegal walk out? Not very efficient on their part either, for the salaries they pull.
I was in a job all my working life where I couldn't strike, and I'm afraid I have no sympathy for people who's first choice these days seems to be to go home, no matter what the repercussions are for others. (Don't mention the Firefighters!)
I'm flying with my family from BOH to PIK this evening. I have every confidence it will be trouble free! (I hope!)
I wonder how the passengers would fare if the ground staff all resigned? If they're on 1 weeks notice, that would be a real killer for BA. One thing you can't get away from is that there doesn't appear to have been any attempt by management to mitigate the situation by rolling their sleeves up and getting there in front of the customers - or unloading baggage.
Which maybe suggests that they are in favour of getting maximum disruption, possibly to get sympathy from the travellers for management.
Which maybe suggests that they are in favour of getting maximum disruption, possibly to get sympathy from the travellers for management.
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Jet II I find some of your statements hard to swallow.
"...I have yet to meet anybody who does not support the check-in staff..."
You obviously don't get out much, and have ignored many on this very thread, so possibly haven't read it very well.
" There is no method to arbitrate-..." ?
Correct me but are there not means by which Unions and management communicate?
Are there not already sections of the airline that swipe in?
" Staff are exercising their right- to withhold their labour..."
Thought this was governed by the Labour laws of the country?
" Something a lot of people do..."?
Nope. Not much any more. Not in dire financial time if they exercise common sense.
"So the staff agonised over the decision but were left with NO alternative..."
Beg to disagree Bob. Thought about it seized a time chose for max impact and then went ahead without regard or attempt for arbitration.
Management obviously does bear some responsibility for the situation and would be well advised to be more visible in this problem and it's solution, however I have yet to be convinced of the 'unbearable' conditions, the reasonableness of fighting the new system, or of attempts by the counter staff to go about a strike in a legal/ equable manner.
"...I have yet to meet anybody who does not support the check-in staff..."
You obviously don't get out much, and have ignored many on this very thread, so possibly haven't read it very well.
" There is no method to arbitrate-..." ?
Correct me but are there not means by which Unions and management communicate?
Are there not already sections of the airline that swipe in?
" Staff are exercising their right- to withhold their labour..."
Thought this was governed by the Labour laws of the country?
" Something a lot of people do..."?
Nope. Not much any more. Not in dire financial time if they exercise common sense.
"So the staff agonised over the decision but were left with NO alternative..."
Beg to disagree Bob. Thought about it seized a time chose for max impact and then went ahead without regard or attempt for arbitration.
Management obviously does bear some responsibility for the situation and would be well advised to be more visible in this problem and it's solution, however I have yet to be convinced of the 'unbearable' conditions, the reasonableness of fighting the new system, or of attempts by the counter staff to go about a strike in a legal/ equable manner.