Next ancillary wheeze
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Next ancillary wheeze
Transavia is now following FR by reducing the hand luggage allowance to 40 x 30 x 20 instead of the previous 55 x 45 x 25 (approx). Clearly they cannot (or don't want to) compete with FR by being very generous on hand luggage. I expect other carriers will follow in Europe.
What's the next substantial ancillary that will be widespread amongst airlines in Europe to bring in more cash ? Reduce hand luggage even further and risk EU Commission wrath (they've already said very publicly they are concerned about the matter) ? Something else ?
What's the next substantial ancillary that will be widespread amongst airlines in Europe to bring in more cash ? Reduce hand luggage even further and risk EU Commission wrath (they've already said very publicly they are concerned about the matter) ? Something else ?
Paxing All Over The World
For as long as Pax will not pay a fair price for the ticket - the answer is - anything. Thus far, FR have found all the spare cash that is a available. If a new ruse has not yet been found, then I suspect it does not exit.
Locker space is often at a premium these days. Passengers also don’t like giving up their cabin baggage at the gate. This then causes delays whilst bags are offloaded from the cabin to the hold.
The cabin bag market has been rather agile in developing trolley bags that fit the under seat dimensions.
So yes, it has become a revenue stream but at least for my carrier, the main objective was about OTP and having the hold closed and paperwork signed off ready so that when the last passenger boards, the door closes and away you go. This is backed up by the fact that the number of passengers eligible to bring a larger IATA size cabin bag, is limited.
The cabin bag market has been rather agile in developing trolley bags that fit the under seat dimensions.
So yes, it has become a revenue stream but at least for my carrier, the main objective was about OTP and having the hold closed and paperwork signed off ready so that when the last passenger boards, the door closes and away you go. This is backed up by the fact that the number of passengers eligible to bring a larger IATA size cabin bag, is limited.
that introduces delays at other points AND it gets very stressful for staff - lots of arguments. The only way you can do it is if EVERYONE has their bags checked and there is a very visible and threatening security presence at the checkpoint.
Almost nothing fits under the seat in front of you in real life if you look at real world seats. Struts, boxes and your own feet already block this space. Maybe a small, half empty, soft backpack might fit if you are willing to carry it on your back after having stored it in a very dirty place. This is why size limits for carry on are needed to put everything in the bins.
Bins are a problem since more seats were squeezed in the existing cabins by moving the aft pressure bulkhead back, rearranging galleys and lavs and reducing seat pitch. I see this as a big failure in modern cabin design. Cost per seat went down but how many departures get delayed day by day over this stupidity? Bins must be made much bigger. Forget fancy mood lights.
An easy solution would be to sell something like a small, reusable, cheap Ikea bag sized the exact dimensions permitted. Passengers could buy one and put their carry on in - if it is legal sized. You would just need some individual lanyard or decoration to find your own bag again.
Bins are a problem since more seats were squeezed in the existing cabins by moving the aft pressure bulkhead back, rearranging galleys and lavs and reducing seat pitch. I see this as a big failure in modern cabin design. Cost per seat went down but how many departures get delayed day by day over this stupidity? Bins must be made much bigger. Forget fancy mood lights.
An easy solution would be to sell something like a small, reusable, cheap Ikea bag sized the exact dimensions permitted. Passengers could buy one and put their carry on in - if it is legal sized. You would just need some individual lanyard or decoration to find your own bag again.
Transavia is now following FR by reducing the hand luggage allowance to 40 x 30 x 20 instead of the previous 55 x 45 x 25 (approx). Clearly they cannot (or don't want to) compete with FR by being very generous on hand luggage. I expect other carriers will follow in Europe.
What's the next substantial ancillary that will be widespread amongst airlines in Europe to bring in more cash ? Reduce hand luggage even further and risk EU Commission wrath (they've already said very publicly they are concerned about the matter) ? Something else ?
What's the next substantial ancillary that will be widespread amongst airlines in Europe to bring in more cash ? Reduce hand luggage even further and risk EU Commission wrath (they've already said very publicly they are concerned about the matter) ? Something else ?
But thanks for making me aware of the size limits for the underseat bag. I hadn't come across that before and I've certainly seen much bigger items than that brought on.
Almost nothing fits under the seat in front of you in real life if you look at real world seats. Struts, boxes and your own feet already block this space. Maybe a small, half empty, soft backpack might fit if you are willing to carry it on your back after having stored it in a very dirty place. This is why size limits for carry on are needed to put everything in the bins.
Bins are a problem since more seats were squeezed in the existing cabins by moving the aft pressure bulkhead back, rearranging galleys and lavs and reducing seat pitch. I see this as a big failure in modern cabin design. Cost per seat went down but how many departures get delayed day by day over this stupidity? Bins must be made much bigger. Forget fancy mood lights.
An easy solution would be to sell something like a small, reusable, cheap Ikea bag sized the exact dimensions permitted. Passengers could buy one and put their carry on in - if it is legal sized. You would just need some individual lanyard or decoration to find your own bag again.
Bins are a problem since more seats were squeezed in the existing cabins by moving the aft pressure bulkhead back, rearranging galleys and lavs and reducing seat pitch. I see this as a big failure in modern cabin design. Cost per seat went down but how many departures get delayed day by day over this stupidity? Bins must be made much bigger. Forget fancy mood lights.
An easy solution would be to sell something like a small, reusable, cheap Ikea bag sized the exact dimensions permitted. Passengers could buy one and put their carry on in - if it is legal sized. You would just need some individual lanyard or decoration to find your own bag again.
RE: rearranging the cabin interiors, first and foremost, the rear pressure bulkhead hasn’t been moved as far as I’m aware. The pressure bulkhead is part of the aircraft structure, not the interior. Where galleys have been made smaller, toilets relocated, space has been made for extra seats but above those extra seats are extra overhead lockers.
Your IKEA bag idea; way too complicated and I think you are overthinking it a little. There are much simpler solutions before we get to that.
Other people's carry ons - another downside to flying.
What have we become ?
It really makes my blood boil when, having packed my essentials into a medium backpack - which does fit under the seat - I see passengers coming on with wheelie cases AND another bag. Wheelie cases in the cabin ?? And the only reason for this is that they cannot be bothered to wait at the bag claim with the rest of us at the destination. So we all have to suffer no space in the overhead lockers just because of these selfish people. Nice.
It really makes my blood boil when, having packed my essentials into a medium backpack - which does fit under the seat - I see passengers coming on with wheelie cases AND another bag. Wheelie cases in the cabin ?? And the only reason for this is that they cannot be bothered to wait at the bag claim with the rest of us at the destination. So we all have to suffer no space in the overhead lockers just because of these selfish people. Nice.
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The lower FR small bag size has been present for some time I believe but is never enforced. Basically unless you’re completely taking the pi$$ they never challenge you, it’s more trouble than it’s worth as they’d have to stop and charge 70% of the pax. My bag is bigger than those dimensions and fits under no problem, my theory is they’ve set the limit artificially low so that people take liberties while still being a reasonable size.
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What have we become ?
It really makes my blood boil when, having packed my essentials into a medium backpack - which does fit under the seat - I see passengers coming on with wheelie cases AND another bag. Wheelie cases in the cabin ?? And the only reason for this is that they cannot be bothered to wait at the bag claim with the rest of us at the destination. So we all have to suffer no space in the overhead lockers just because of these selfish people. Nice.
It really makes my blood boil when, having packed my essentials into a medium backpack - which does fit under the seat - I see passengers coming on with wheelie cases AND another bag. Wheelie cases in the cabin ?? And the only reason for this is that they cannot be bothered to wait at the bag claim with the rest of us at the destination. So we all have to suffer no space in the overhead lockers just because of these selfish people. Nice.
Also, why are these people selfish? Surely it’s more selfish to want to hold people up getting on with their trips just because they’ve travelled light and you’re taking the kitchen sink. And you don’t know their circumstances. On the same flight to Malaga some may be going for a weekend and some might be having their annual big two week holiday.
None of which physically prevents suitcases going in the hold. Overhead bins for small bags and coats, then everyone gets a space 
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If you have priority on Ryanair you are entitled to a wheelie + second cabin bag. Jet2 you are entitled to both, also the case for several legacy carriers. These people are doing nothing wrong.
Also, why are these people selfish? Surely it’s more selfish to want to hold people up getting on with their trips just because they’ve travelled light and you’re taking the kitchen sink. And you don’t know their circumstances. On the same flight to Malaga some may be going for a weekend and some might be having their annual big two week holiday.
Also, why are these people selfish? Surely it’s more selfish to want to hold people up getting on with their trips just because they’ve travelled light and you’re taking the kitchen sink. And you don’t know their circumstances. On the same flight to Malaga some may be going for a weekend and some might be having their annual big two week holiday.
The airlines have what they wished for, they introduced charges for hold baggage to persuade us to only take carry on baggage. They introduced carry on baggage charges to make certain all the carry ons would fit in the cabin. They bundle priority boarding with carry on baggage charges so that those with carry on baggage are boarded first and have time to stow their baggage.
It’s simple, it’s all about turnaround times. Don’t blame the passenger, they are only doing what they have been nudged to do.
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It's exactly that. The baggage rules that have come about in recent years is all about enabling quick turnarounds and good on time performance. As much as some may want to think it's about squeezing a few extra quid out of people are very much mistaken. Delays have a far greater cost to the airlines than any extra revenue squeezed out of oversized bags is ever going to yield.
Historically, the low cost airlines have charged through the nose for checked bags as they simply didn't want them. It added cost and complexity to the operation. However, as the industry has grown, more airlines are flying into congested slot constrained airports and the daily occurrence of air traffic flow delays in summer, the airlines have had no choice but to do everything within their own power to enable good on time performance and minimize any potential for delays.
With that the whole "we don't want your checked bag" ethos has gone full circle and now the airlines broadly encourage checked bags over cabin baggage as the latter has more potential for delays. Ryanair for instance has reduced their checked bags fees over the years and increased from a traditional 15kg to 20kg allowance. The likes of Jet2 and TUI for instance will still allow a standard 10kg cabin bag for free because they have longer turns and many of their customers will have 20-22kg checked luggage as part of their holiday package anyway, so the demand for cabin bags naturally reduces.
The low cost carriers are trying to replicate that to some extent with their own pricing/policies. It's all about driving the behavior of customers to suit the needs of the operation, not simply a means of squeezing extra revenue.
Historically, the low cost airlines have charged through the nose for checked bags as they simply didn't want them. It added cost and complexity to the operation. However, as the industry has grown, more airlines are flying into congested slot constrained airports and the daily occurrence of air traffic flow delays in summer, the airlines have had no choice but to do everything within their own power to enable good on time performance and minimize any potential for delays.
With that the whole "we don't want your checked bag" ethos has gone full circle and now the airlines broadly encourage checked bags over cabin baggage as the latter has more potential for delays. Ryanair for instance has reduced their checked bags fees over the years and increased from a traditional 15kg to 20kg allowance. The likes of Jet2 and TUI for instance will still allow a standard 10kg cabin bag for free because they have longer turns and many of their customers will have 20-22kg checked luggage as part of their holiday package anyway, so the demand for cabin bags naturally reduces.
The low cost carriers are trying to replicate that to some extent with their own pricing/policies. It's all about driving the behavior of customers to suit the needs of the operation, not simply a means of squeezing extra revenue.
I don’t think it’s about blame… for either side.
The passenger likes the idea of ‘cheap’ basic fares and over the last two decades have generally enjoyed a greater propensity (and affordability) to travel on a wide short haul network, often from their local airport or tarmaced landing strip.
The airline has facilitated that but in return, have created different revenue streams to compensate. The average passenger may not necessarily like this ‘nickel and diming’ but that greater propensity and affordability to fly still comes at a cost.
I must admit, I was disappointed when my carrier went down the larger (standard) cabin bag charge route but operationally, it works.
The same goes for airports. All airlines pay less in real terms for using an airport and as a consequence, they too have had to reorganise their revenue streams in favour of non-aeronautical activity. In return, airlines like FR, EZY, LS, VY et al often provide volume as opposed to a perceived prestigious hub route that might only operate thrice daily.
So yes we might all moan but if we had time travel and went back to the 80’s and mid 90’s where the vast majority of the flying public only flew once a year, and only then on charter, I would hazard a guess, we’d all be more appreciative of the opportunities we have now.
The passenger likes the idea of ‘cheap’ basic fares and over the last two decades have generally enjoyed a greater propensity (and affordability) to travel on a wide short haul network, often from their local airport or tarmaced landing strip.
The airline has facilitated that but in return, have created different revenue streams to compensate. The average passenger may not necessarily like this ‘nickel and diming’ but that greater propensity and affordability to fly still comes at a cost.
I must admit, I was disappointed when my carrier went down the larger (standard) cabin bag charge route but operationally, it works.
The same goes for airports. All airlines pay less in real terms for using an airport and as a consequence, they too have had to reorganise their revenue streams in favour of non-aeronautical activity. In return, airlines like FR, EZY, LS, VY et al often provide volume as opposed to a perceived prestigious hub route that might only operate thrice daily.
So yes we might all moan but if we had time travel and went back to the 80’s and mid 90’s where the vast majority of the flying public only flew once a year, and only then on charter, I would hazard a guess, we’d all be more appreciative of the opportunities we have now.
Paxing All Over The World
easyflyer83 Sums it up.
I have only once seen an LCC boarding line checked for carry on size. I remember it clearly as it was so unusual. About ten years ago, we were boarding an EZY at BOD, everyone had their bag checked and much annoyance in the SLF. I can only imagine that an inspector of some kind was on duty. I agree that challenging some SLF about their bags would not be amusing and would, ultimately, delay the flight. Also, folks are able to put whatever they want on social media without fact checking. So they complain that the carrier took their bags off them or whatever. For the airline to find that and give a correction - they have to find the staff who were on duty and get their version. Of course, some carriers just ignore all customer nonsense and that can be the best answer.
I have only once seen an LCC boarding line checked for carry on size. I remember it clearly as it was so unusual. About ten years ago, we were boarding an EZY at BOD, everyone had their bag checked and much annoyance in the SLF. I can only imagine that an inspector of some kind was on duty. I agree that challenging some SLF about their bags would not be amusing and would, ultimately, delay the flight. Also, folks are able to put whatever they want on social media without fact checking. So they complain that the carrier took their bags off them or whatever. For the airline to find that and give a correction - they have to find the staff who were on duty and get their version. Of course, some carriers just ignore all customer nonsense and that can be the best answer.
