Glasgow-4
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Derek Provan stepping down as CEO of AGS next spring:
Glasgow Airport chief Derek Provan to exit AGS
Do we think this will change anything at the airport (or indeed their other airports at ABZ and SOU)?
Glasgow Airport chief Derek Provan to exit AGS
Do we think this will change anything at the airport (or indeed their other airports at ABZ and SOU)?
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Manchester
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He did a terrible job. The amount of routes and airlines lost especially under his leadership is staggering.
However I think GLA's problems are deeper than Derek Provan. AGS as an organisation and their billionaire owners don't care. The terminal is a dump, the connectivity to Glasgow CC is poor, not competitive enough to retain low cost airlines, long haul carriers.
Then there's the political component. Between Brexit, APD, covid, political focus on propping up PIK in the west, the green agenda, absolutely no movement on the rail link. Its the worst political environment possible for the airport.
Also the growth of EDI has been hugely detrimental. Its scary when you compare the job GIP/Dewar have done versus AGS/Provan.
However I think GLA's problems are deeper than Derek Provan. AGS as an organisation and their billionaire owners don't care. The terminal is a dump, the connectivity to Glasgow CC is poor, not competitive enough to retain low cost airlines, long haul carriers.
Then there's the political component. Between Brexit, APD, covid, political focus on propping up PIK in the west, the green agenda, absolutely no movement on the rail link. Its the worst political environment possible for the airport.
Also the growth of EDI has been hugely detrimental. Its scary when you compare the job GIP/Dewar have done versus AGS/Provan.
What makes you say the terminal is a dump? It has more space and is less claustrophic than EDI IMHO.
We can blame AGS til the cows come home but for me it's all about location. There was only ever, ever room for one major Scottish lowland airport. BAA made a strategic decision to support GLA at the expense of both PIK and EDI, (Joe Curry was right, I have changed my mind!). Once the focus of politics and economics moved East and EDI and GLA were both sold, the free market itself coalesced around EDI as it had a relatively stronger inbound market. That's not to say GLA can't make money, but when American and United have data for both, they've both swung East, Air Canada have data for all three and settled on EDI. That's a natural behaviour reflecting relative demand. Now AGS can discount all they like, but I suspect the airlines will continue to pay a premium to use EDI, who can offer a good introductory deal and show value in remaining with a relatively better performing route. GLA was my home airport once, but like PIK before it, the future isn't always the one you expect. They can do well and make good money, but I suspect always in the shadow of the capital now.
We can blame AGS til the cows come home but for me it's all about location. There was only ever, ever room for one major Scottish lowland airport. BAA made a strategic decision to support GLA at the expense of both PIK and EDI, (Joe Curry was right, I have changed my mind!). Once the focus of politics and economics moved East and EDI and GLA were both sold, the free market itself coalesced around EDI as it had a relatively stronger inbound market. That's not to say GLA can't make money, but when American and United have data for both, they've both swung East, Air Canada have data for all three and settled on EDI. That's a natural behaviour reflecting relative demand. Now AGS can discount all they like, but I suspect the airlines will continue to pay a premium to use EDI, who can offer a good introductory deal and show value in remaining with a relatively better performing route. GLA was my home airport once, but like PIK before it, the future isn't always the one you expect. They can do well and make good money, but I suspect always in the shadow of the capital now.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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When were you last in it? Last week there were closed outlets, half baked ‘pub’ / catering offerings, overflowing rubbish bins, not enough seating, no cashpoint, cars parked everywhere outwith spaces in car park, tatty pier carpets, unclean toilets, no air con, dirty windows.
I would say that was in the ‘dump’ category relatively speaking and depending on what you’re used to /benchmarking…
I would say that was in the ‘dump’ category relatively speaking and depending on what you’re used to /benchmarking…
I last flew 3 Loganair sectors in May, it didn't seem that bad. There's loads of seating on the piers, just depends on how savvy you are. But fair point about the post COVID state, a refresh wouldn't go amiss but you can bet your bottom dollar budget won't be released for cosmetics given the state of the damage to the balance sheet.
BTW I love your "ex wife" tone you *always* take with me, I love you all the more for it xx
BTW I love your "ex wife" tone you *always* take with me, I love you all the more for it xx
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Glasgow
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When I was last in the airport a few weeks back the only place to buy water pre security was Starbucks which is appalling! The area entering security resembles an abandoned building site now. Place overall just feels tired to me. The check in area has looked the same all of my life.
Agree with the above on the mixture of politics, bad management, disinterested owners, growth of EDI.
However some things are definitely within their power. A start would be getting Ryanair back and improving access to the city centre. The 500 bus is a disgrace. I can get to EDI for the same price on a nice coach as opposed to a dirty cramped irregular bus service that might as well be a number 57 or 61.
Don't think we are even at rock bottom yet sadly.
Agree with the above on the mixture of politics, bad management, disinterested owners, growth of EDI.
However some things are definitely within their power. A start would be getting Ryanair back and improving access to the city centre. The 500 bus is a disgrace. I can get to EDI for the same price on a nice coach as opposed to a dirty cramped irregular bus service that might as well be a number 57 or 61.
Don't think we are even at rock bottom yet sadly.
The 500 bus has become a shocking example of price gouging, agreed. The check in area is actually iconic to me, as it has the original Basil Spence terminal above, I always loved that. Reminds me of younger days!
The rebalancing of landside vs airside made the upper level above check in redundant. It was a Harry Ramsden's once, bustling with people BUT they wanted people airside and having accomplised that, much of landside has become redundant.
There's no ROI for a rail link now, pretty much zero. They may well come to terms with Ryanair, they may well have to. Am I wrong to be relaxed about managed decline? I can't see a way back when EDI dominates so in the medium term. There is so much overlap in catchment areas and routes.
The rebalancing of landside vs airside made the upper level above check in redundant. It was a Harry Ramsden's once, bustling with people BUT they wanted people airside and having accomplised that, much of landside has become redundant.
There's no ROI for a rail link now, pretty much zero. They may well come to terms with Ryanair, they may well have to. Am I wrong to be relaxed about managed decline? I can't see a way back when EDI dominates so in the medium term. There is so much overlap in catchment areas and routes.
Rather depends on how 'tourist' is defined. When I worked on a study for Visit England an over night for a business meeting seemed to qualify. what the criteria for tourism is in the ONS Passenger Survey I don't know.
Join Date: Jun 2015
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The 500 bus has become a shocking example of price gouging, agreed. The check in area is actually iconic to me, as it has the original Basil Spence terminal above, I always loved that. Reminds me of younger days!
The rebalancing of landside vs airside made the upper level above check in redundant. It was a Harry Ramsden's once, bustling with people BUT they wanted people airside and having accomplised that, much of landside has become redundant.
There's no ROI for a rail link now, pretty much zero. They may well come to terms with Ryanair, they may well have to. Am I wrong to be relaxed about managed decline? I can't see a way back when EDI dominates so in the medium term. There is so much overlap in catchment areas and routes.
The rebalancing of landside vs airside made the upper level above check in redundant. It was a Harry Ramsden's once, bustling with people BUT they wanted people airside and having accomplised that, much of landside has become redundant.
There's no ROI for a rail link now, pretty much zero. They may well come to terms with Ryanair, they may well have to. Am I wrong to be relaxed about managed decline? I can't see a way back when EDI dominates so in the medium term. There is so much overlap in catchment areas and routes.
When I was out in Manchester on Saturday it was heaving with non UK people in NQ who had been out in city for the day plus the many who wander a bit distant
and hotels are all very busy
and hotels are all very busy
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He did a terrible job. The amount of routes and airlines lost especially under his leadership is staggering.
However I think GLA's problems are deeper than Derek Provan. AGS as an organisation and their billionaire owners don't care. The terminal is a dump, the connectivity to Glasgow CC is poor, not competitive enough to retain low cost airlines, long haul carriers.
However I think GLA's problems are deeper than Derek Provan. AGS as an organisation and their billionaire owners don't care. The terminal is a dump, the connectivity to Glasgow CC is poor, not competitive enough to retain low cost airlines, long haul carriers.
The public ownership of PIK is almost certainly unhelpful, but I think we shouldn't overstate it. Even now at peak summer PIK appears to have only 5-6 deps/day and in winter it can be 1 or 2/day......and these are FR flights that probably pay very little to use the facility, with pax that spend not very much in the terminal. Is that operation really significantly hurting GLA? - and how many airlines other than FR could credibly claim to be considering flying to PIK in order to get a better deal/push down charges at GLA? Surely very few, if any?
Nevertheless, I think GLA is now the only one out of the top 9 or 10 regionals in the UK that doesn't have an FR base and imo it's difficult to see how it can afford for that to be the case.
As an external observer it appeared to me that the airport did better when the previous MD/AGS CEO Amanda McMillan was in post. It seemed they had a more coordinated multi-agency approach to attracting routes and airlines. She departed quite suddenly a few years ago and since then it's been downhill.
Join Date: Jun 2015
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I think you've summed it up pretty well there imo. Undoubtedly they face a difficult market with COVID and economic issues, but these apply in many other cases to EDI and other UK airports that seem to do better.
The public ownership of PIK is almost certainly unhelpful, but I think we shouldn't overstate it. Even now at peak summer PIK appears to have only 5-6 deps/day and in winter it can be 1 or 2/day......and these are FR flights that probably pay very little to use the facility, with pax that spend not very much in the terminal. Is that operation really significantly hurting GLA? - and how many airlines other than FR could credibly claim to be considering flying to PIK in order to get a better deal/push down charges at GLA? Surely very few, if any?
Nevertheless, I think GLA is now the only one out of the top 9 or 10 regionals in the UK that doesn't have an FR base and imo it's difficult to see how it can afford for that to be the case.
As an external observer it appeared to me that the airport did better when the previous MD/AGS CEO Amanda McMillan was in post. It seemed they had a more coordinated multi-agency approach to attracting routes and airlines. She departed quite suddenly a few years ago and since then it's been downhill.
The public ownership of PIK is almost certainly unhelpful, but I think we shouldn't overstate it. Even now at peak summer PIK appears to have only 5-6 deps/day and in winter it can be 1 or 2/day......and these are FR flights that probably pay very little to use the facility, with pax that spend not very much in the terminal. Is that operation really significantly hurting GLA? - and how many airlines other than FR could credibly claim to be considering flying to PIK in order to get a better deal/push down charges at GLA? Surely very few, if any?
Nevertheless, I think GLA is now the only one out of the top 9 or 10 regionals in the UK that doesn't have an FR base and imo it's difficult to see how it can afford for that to be the case.
As an external observer it appeared to me that the airport did better when the previous MD/AGS CEO Amanda McMillan was in post. It seemed they had a more coordinated multi-agency approach to attracting routes and airlines. She departed quite suddenly a few years ago and since then it's been downhill.
Ryanair clearly don't value Glasgow/the West. If you combine their GLA/PIK ops its still very small. Ryanair would rather take a stab on routes from EDI to provincial airports in Europe than GLA/PIK to various parts of the Med. O'Leary has publicly slagged the airport, region and the political climate here quite a few times. If PIK shut down tomorrow the based aircraft would not come to GLA IMO. It would be going to EDI or elsewhere.
I don't think wev'e seen the end of the cuts. Icelandair now down to seasonal less than daily. Just about hanging onto the Canadian flights with Westjet following the US carriers and pitching up out east. Although Transat seem very loyal to GLA.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: SW Scotland
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The Air Transat flights are more likely outbound tourism, sold as package holidays through travel agencies. Glasgow tends to perform well in outbound leisure destination flights due to its larger catchment area.
The marketplace is certainly shifting towards Edinburgh, but Glasgow will always have a role to play. Long-haul will probably switch primarily to Edinburgh, with maybe one or two seasonal US flights remaining at Glasgow, plus links to popular outbound destinations (Florida, The Caribbean, Canada). European holiday hotspots will always be well covered from Glasgow, as will most popular city break destinations. Edinburgh will attract a few more business oriented city destinations in Europe.
The marketplace is certainly shifting towards Edinburgh, but Glasgow will always have a role to play. Long-haul will probably switch primarily to Edinburgh, with maybe one or two seasonal US flights remaining at Glasgow, plus links to popular outbound destinations (Florida, The Caribbean, Canada). European holiday hotspots will always be well covered from Glasgow, as will most popular city break destinations. Edinburgh will attract a few more business oriented city destinations in Europe.
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Quite damning to see Delta go for another shot at Edinburgh to Atlanta. Just shows the transatlantic big boys don't have any faith in the market. Can't see direct regular service to Glasgow from the States ever again. Not counting some irregular peak season service with no connectivity to the middle of nowhere in Florida.
The Scottish Government and AGS have killed the place. All aboard the 500 bus to deaths door. Via the M8 traffic jam.
The Scottish Government and AGS have killed the place. All aboard the 500 bus to deaths door. Via the M8 traffic jam.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Not sure how you think the SG have killed GLA. Piss poor management within GLA has killed GLA, and a strong and ruthless team at EDI has taken advantage. Do they even have a route development team? When the likes of BRS (no offence to them) have overtaken GLA, you know theres a problem somewhere