Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Isle of Man-3

Old 17th Dec 2021, 19:05
  #421 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,727
The flights to/from Dublin are designed to connect with the transatlantic. It's been some time since IOM/DUB has operated.
EI-BUD is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2021, 20:56
  #422 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Not so many places currently
Age: 58
Posts: 2,580
Well you can't say EZY didn't give it a good try today, last Liverpool unfortunately on it's way back to LPL.
Loganair, should you have done better today? Are they CAT3 rated into LPL & MAN?
pabely is online now  
Old 19th Dec 2021, 21:01
  #423 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: earth
Posts: 890
Avios.com now showing reward availability for IOM-DUB
Total:4,500 + £39.70
Ridiculous!

Last edited by lfc84; 19th Dec 2021 at 21:19.
lfc84 is online now  
Old 19th Dec 2021, 21:06
  #424 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 551
Originally Posted by pabely View Post
Well you can't say EZY didn't give it a good try today, last Liverpool unfortunately on it's way back to LPL.
Loganair, should you have done better today? Are they CAT3 rated into LPL & MAN?
No, the E135/145 and ATRís will be a maximum of Cat II. If that. Certainly no autoland and is the issue Flybe used to suffer every winter.
Dct_Mopas is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2021, 11:38
  #425 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Not so many places currently
Age: 58
Posts: 2,580
How much for new fire engines!? I know they are expensive kit but really. True that they are too large to fit in the airport firestation?
pabely is online now  
Old 22nd Dec 2021, 11:44
  #426 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: earth
Posts: 890
Originally Posted by pabely View Post
How much for new fire engines!? I know they are expensive kit but really. True that they are too large to fit in the airport firestation?
Google it and you'll see the RRP
lfc84 is online now  
Old 22nd Dec 2021, 21:17
  #427 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Not so many places currently
Age: 58
Posts: 2,580
My point was the new firestation to house this kit is not built yet, has it even passed the design stage?
Meanwhile the new kit sits in the elements getting a wash from the salty sea air!?
pabely is online now  
Old 23rd Dec 2021, 05:16
  #428 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: N. Irish Sea
Age: 72
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by pabely View Post
My point was the new firestation to house this kit is not built yet, has it even passed the design stage?
Meanwhile the new kit sits in the elements getting a wash from the salty sea air!?
Apparently there is a temporary shelter.
milleriom is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2021, 18:40
  #429 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London
Posts: 343
Originally Posted by Dct_Mopas View Post
No, the E135/145 and ATRís will be a maximum of Cat II. If that. Certainly no autoland and is the issue Flybe used to suffer every winter.
The problem with the IOM is not really to do with the aircraft but more the airport. A standard CAT I approach requires 550m RVR but the IOM is 1000m because, when they extended the runway they didn't put in proper approach lighting. There is also, if my memory serves me right, an issue with doing a CAT II into the IOM because of the terrain profile at the end of the runway affects the rad alt. I am imagining EZY and Logan and the others all have the same issue coming into the IOM ..

If they could get the airport to CAT II standard ILS then the vast majority of lost approaches would go. There is still the issue of stonking cross winds but often it's doable, it's the combination of the vis and cloud base that makes it worse (plus the IOM has no equipment for measuring RVR so it's only standard MET VIS which is reported, so actually although the plate says 1000m RVR you can land in 800m met vis because it can be multiplied if the met vis is >=800m)
cumbrianboy is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2021, 19:06
  #430 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: earth
Posts: 890
In fog, easyJet will land when Loganair can't. That happened last week
lfc84 is online now  
Old 26th Dec 2021, 20:06
  #431 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 102
Thatís complete rubbish. All things are equal when it comes to IOM arrivals. If LPL or MAN arrivals are the issue, Cat III will be a differentiator. Best to get your facts straight though.
Saabdriver1 is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2021, 20:06
  #432 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: A different hotel to the one crewing told me...
Posts: 207
Originally Posted by lfc84 View Post
In fog, easyJet will land when Loganair can't. That happened last week
Luck of the draw, if youíre in the right place at the right time youíll see the lights and land. 2 minutes before or after you might or might not.

Nothing to do with EasyJet or Loganair.
oapilot is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2021, 20:09
  #433 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: earth
Posts: 890
Loganair cancelled the entire day's schedule
easyJet came and landed
lfc84 is online now  
Old 26th Dec 2021, 20:10
  #434 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: South East
Posts: 122
Originally Posted by cumbrianboy View Post
The problem with the IOM is not really to do with the aircraft but more the airport. A standard CAT I approach requires 550m RVR but the IOM is 1000m because, when they extended the runway they didn't put in proper approach lighting. There is also, if my memory serves me right, an issue with doing a CAT II into the IOM because of the terrain profile at the end of the runway affects the rad alt. I am imagining EZY and Logan and the others all have the same issue coming into the IOM ..

If they could get the airport to CAT II standard ILS then the vast majority of lost approaches would go. There is still the issue of stonking cross winds but often it's doable, it's the combination of the vis and cloud base that makes it worse (plus the IOM has no equipment for measuring RVR so it's only standard MET VIS which is reported, so actually although the plate says 1000m RVR you can land in 800m met vis because it can be multiplied if the met vis is >=800m)
Approach lighting actually becomes less important with low viz approaches. For a Cat III approach the approach lighting being u/s has no effect on your minima because youíll never actually see it if landing in actual minimums.

Another significant issue for low viz ops at EGNS, is on RWY08 the ILS is offset from the runway by 4 degrees. So when you pop out of cloud youíre not actually pointing at the runway. The aircraft needs to be visually manoeuvred to line up with the runway. The higher minimas for that runway reflect that.
Downwind_Left is online now  
Old 26th Dec 2021, 20:21
  #435 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 102
Lfc84, when youíve understood the basics of how aircraft operate and why, then do pay us another visit. Meanwhile, I point you back to my answer earlier.
Saabdriver1 is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2021, 20:23
  #436 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: earth
Posts: 890
Commercial decision to proactively cancel an entire day's schedule then. Thanks for your help
lfc84 is online now  
Old 26th Dec 2021, 20:24
  #437 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 102
Nope. Met decision only. Grow up.
Saabdriver1 is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2021, 21:00
  #438 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: A different hotel to the one crewing told me...
Posts: 207
Originally Posted by Downwind_Left View Post
Approach lighting actually becomes less important with low viz approaches. For a Cat III approach the approach lighting being u/s has no effect on your minima because youíll never actually see it if landing in actual minimums.

Another significant issue for low viz ops at EGNS, is on RWY08 the ILS is offset from the runway.
For Cat III maybe, but for Cat I, poorer or fewer lights equals higher min viz to legally attempt the approach in the first place.

Another problem with 08 is the PAPIs are set to a different angle to the approach so getting 2 reds and 2 whites on an accurately flown approach at minima isnít a given.
oapilot is offline  
Old 26th Dec 2021, 21:02
  #439 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: London
Posts: 343
Originally Posted by Downwind_Left View Post
Approach lighting actually becomes less important with low viz approaches. For a Cat III approach the approach lighting being u/s has no effect on your minima because youíll never actually see it if landing in actual minimums.

Another significant issue for low viz ops at EGNS, is on RWY08 the ILS is offset from the runway by 4 degrees. So when you pop out of cloud youíre not actually pointing at the runway. The aircraft needs to be visually manoeuvred to line up with the runway. The higher minimas for that runway reflect that.
youíre right approach lighting is less of an issue with CAT III approaches but it is very much the determining factor for the islenof man and their non standard cat I approach. The approach lighting is the most important factor for a CAT I as itís a manual landing. CAT III is a different beast as itís a mandatory auto land which is why it becomes less of an issue.

the isle of man is no where near CAT III and the aircraft that mainly use it are hot cat III capable.

if there was a way to get CAT II that would help more than anything else.

Iíve spent enough time at Kelly to have worked these things out Ö
cumbrianboy is offline  
Old 27th Dec 2021, 09:30
  #440 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: London
Posts: 164
Originally Posted by Saabdriver1 View Post
Lfc84, when youíve understood the basics of how aircraft operate and why, then do pay us another visit. Meanwhile, I point you back to my answer earlier.
Perhaps Lfc84 could explain why on many times in the past when there has been fog EasyJet flights have been diverted back to Gatwick and London City have landed !
IOMX is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.