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Old 30th Mar 2021, 11:42
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That's all fine and dandy, but too often they don't have a great track record of playing the long game, Grey Bull is a prime example of that, and not just in the aviation industry. Maybe I'm being a tad unfair tarring all venture capitalists with the same brush as Grey bull.
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 12:20
  #202 (permalink)  
 
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Not just this sector the evidence is all around in industry & revealed latterly the retail sector.
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 12:23
  #203 (permalink)  
 
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Flybe CEO Saad Hammad started moving into LHR
Saad had gone by the time Heathrow came along. That happened during the time of the interim Chairman running the show and looking for a way to make Flybe more attractive in the City to help the share price, so I recall hearing at the time.

I cannot imagine EY being too keen on allowing someone doing a smash and grab while they are busy trying to extract as much value as possible for the creditors (not very good for their reputation). Likewise, a pension scheme with a funding hole and a pension regulator taking a keen interest in not going to be keen on letting this happen. The pension regulator has been embarrassed before in these situations and I doubt they will let it happen again.
The smash and grab was done before EY were involved. Cyrus had security over Flybe's slots before it collapsed and so any value is already beyond reach of EY and the pensions people.

if it does indeed accurately reflect the notes from the hearing correctly
Unless the whole document I'd got is an elaborate wind-up, it is a transcript of the hearing so reports every word. I've had a PM to say that anyone can request it from the CAA by e-mailing [email protected] to ask for a copy. It is worth a read and there are a few interesting bits but that was the stand-out line to me.

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Old 30th Mar 2021, 14:59
  #204 (permalink)  
 
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Who is paying/ funding EY through all of this? I can’t imagine they will be cheap.
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 15:09
  #205 (permalink)  
 
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Administrators are usually first in the queue to be paid from whatever money is made from the sale of the assets - they're ahead of even the creditors.

Current bill is a cool 12m. - http://assets.ey.com/content/dam/ey-...f-expenses.pdf
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 15:39
  #206 (permalink)  
 
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The remedy slots are flawed conceptually. The notion that flybe can compete effectively on EDI-LHR is not supported.
The market is Edinburgh-London
Operators
BA EDI-LHR high volume high frequency feeding large % to long haul
CFE EDI-LCY high value high frequency point to point
EZY EDI-LGW EDI-LTN EDI-STN low cost but high volume high frequency supporting business travel
BE EDI-LCY high volume high frequency point to point compared to :
BE EDI-LHR flying propellor driven aircraft into the highest cost airport feeding almost no one, this is less of an offering to market than Little Red who were at least flying A320 and feeding long haul.

It's an apples and pears comparison, even BMI dropped GLA-LHR as the Scotland-LHR market was undermined by easyJet being a more compelling offer in market. flybe were competing on price against a higher frequency and faster service on BA, it wasn't set up to succeed IMHO. It's misleading to say BA have a monopoly per se, it's just that with the cost and constrainsts existing at LHR, no one else can really make it work in certain markets. EDI-London is widely fragmented across LHR/LGW/STN and the EDI-LHR offering is in strong competition against that. The flawed concept is that in order to keep competition healthy, someone else NEEDS to fly EDI-LHR. Arguably someone else should also be flying LHR-MAD/DUB as those are IAG monopolies with BA selling across both brands. It was a nice idea on paper that just didn't pan out.

Last edited by Skipness One Foxtrot; 30th Mar 2021 at 19:30.
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 16:11
  #207 (permalink)  
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Just playing devils advocate with the above statement, the BE EDI-LHR was feeding the same demographic as BA were. They had numerous codeshares to feed onwards to long haul operators, including Virgin Atlantic, Cathay, Air India, Etihad, Emirates, Delta, Singapore etc etc. The problem I suspect with BE flying domestically into LHR, and every other operator who has tried to go up against BA, is that BA can afford to take a loss on the regional market as it supports the long haul one.

This is the same problem worldwide. Most regional airlines that fly into major hubs are supported by larger flag carriers who can afford to take the hit as it keeps business flowing to the more profitable side of the company. Think American Eagle, United Express, Delta Connection, KLM Cityhopper, Lufthansa Cityline, Alitalia Cityliner, TAP Express, etc
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 20:32
  #208 (permalink)  
 
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Administrators are usually first in the queue to be paid from whatever money is made from the sale of the assets - they're ahead of even the creditors.
Where a secured creditor has title to the assets - or in this case, slots - then the administrators get nothing if the holder of the security exercises their rights. It's basically a process of the secured creditor re-claiming property which is already theirs.
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Old 31st Mar 2021, 09:54
  #209 (permalink)  
 
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Albert hall. Flybe never had an interim chairman.
French was chairman and after Hammad became CEO the board appointed Laffin as Chairman. This occured om 2013.
Laffin remained chairman until the sale to Connect Airways.
I'm pretty sure LHR routes were introduced under Hammads watch
they were certainly imtroduced while Laffin was chairman
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Old 31st Mar 2021, 11:13
  #210 (permalink)  
 
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Saad left with immediate effect in October 2016. Flybe announced LHR-EDI and ABZ in Dec 2016 operating from March 2017.
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Old 31st Mar 2021, 11:50
  #211 (permalink)  
 
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...and from October 2016, Laffin was both Chairman and interim CEO of Flybe before Ourmieres-Widner arrived in January 2017
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Old 31st Mar 2021, 22:25
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It looks like it's not all about the slots. This is why Loganair were so desperate to address the CAA...

THYME OPCO LIMITED

Companies House Directors...
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Old 1st Apr 2021, 06:09
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can you explain?
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Old 1st Apr 2021, 07:12
  #214 (permalink)  
 
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Three new Directors appointed a few days ago including Robert Knuckey who had a long history with Flybe and its forerunners as well as Walker Aviation. Any significance in that?
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Old 1st Apr 2021, 08:38
  #215 (permalink)  
 
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TBH I can't find anything of what Loganair said either in the hearing minutes or the CAA's decision so unless someone has insight to share, we don't know what they did and didn't say. It's clear they said something though.

The new directors look like the classic finance, HR and industry trio of non-execs being stuck onto a board to lend credibility and convince external players like the CAA that there is a company structure. I can't imagine anyone is getting too excited about it beyond the comments from the new poster from Birmingham here though.
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Old 1st Apr 2021, 08:39
  #216 (permalink)  
 
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What I find more interesting is that one of the new directors of Thyme Opco and its parent company Thyme Opco parentco is a Anthony Kevin Hatton who was formerly a director of GB Airways, Orion Airways and TUi airways.
At least he is someone with great experience of the airline industry.
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Old 1st Apr 2021, 09:28
  #217 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe brummy was suggesting that new Directors with credible aviation histories pointed to the likelihood that this was more than just a 'slot grab' financial exercise as some have suggested. Would they want to risk possible reputational damage if it were only that?
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Old 1st Apr 2021, 09:50
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Albert Hall

They provided written submissions, it’s in the main body of the text
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Old 1st Apr 2021, 10:12
  #219 (permalink)  
 
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Expressflight

It does appear to make the "slot grab" theory rather less tenable, but time alone will tell.
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Old 1st Apr 2021, 10:57
  #220 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, I can see that, thank you. The question I had was what they were about.
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