Carlisle-2
Join Date: May 2002
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Nyxair ES-NSB arrived in CAX last night, making 3 Saabs currently on the ground. Popped in this morning for a quick photo, and also saw G-DAYA about to depart. Shortly after I left a Gulfstream G650 diverted in to the airport. Starting to look like a real airport!
Join Date: Dec 2010
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It is so good to see more aircraft popping in to Carlisle and I really do hope some more routes will be developed in the near future. I was wondering if this extra aircraft is running the additional flights for the Rugby?
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Unfortunately, Carlisle Airport is in association with the hopeless hapless Loganair, whose online booking facility is about the most amateurish in the Western aviation industry. I've just spent a fruitless 45 minutes trying to make a CAX-SEN return booking for Mrs M and myself, exactly as I did last October. The website is a muddled mess in which links aren't where they're supposed to be and no thought is given to user friendliness: it is, in fact, amongst the most unintuitive IT shambles I've encountered anywhere.
I complained to Loganair about this in October last year, and it has done precisely nothing about it since, so it clearly couldn't care less. The fact that the online booking system continues on unchanged also says pretty much everything there is to say about the management of Carlisle Airport, seeing as how the top priority at local level should be to attract custom. not allow an associate enterprise like Loganair to alienate it.
Finally, it seems evident from the declining PAX numbers that there ain't enough business travelers to sustain the airport indefinitely. Nor will capacity be boosted by a sudden rush of non-business PAX: on the one and only occasion, last year, when after complaining last year I finally managed to get a quote out of Loganair for Mrs M and myself, return, CAX-SEN total fare £164 PLUS total tax: £143.40 Total = £307.40, the vexed Air Passenger Duty issue raised its ugly head.
The topic isn't fully understood by the public at large (or so it seems to me, judging from conversations I've had with bemused friends and neighbours, all of whom are quick to assert that there's no tax to pay on top of the cost of railway tickets) and so long as it's misconstrued to be a nice little earner for HM Treasury, consumer antipathy is going to continue on. How much leeway Carlisle Airport itself has in regard to the APD level applicable, I don't know, but candidly, what with the "tax" ogre and the idiocy of Loganair's dysfunctional online booking facility, one would have to be an ultra optimist to see a longterm future for the airport.
As for my wife and I, we didn't fly from there to the south of England last October and we won't be flying out, either, in a fortnight's time: I've given up on attempting to complete my booking today as by the time such has been managed in regard to getting us to London Southend, I could probably have traveled by train from Carlisle to London Euston.
Unfortunately, Carlisle Airport is in association with the hopeless hapless Loganair, whose online booking facility is about the most amateurish in the Western aviation industry. I've just spent a fruitless 45 minutes trying to make a CAX-SEN return booking for Mrs M and myself, exactly as I did last October. The website is a muddled mess in which links aren't where they're supposed to be and no thought is given to user friendliness: it is, in fact, amongst the most unintuitive IT shambles I've encountered anywhere.
The topic isn't fully understood by the public at large (or so it seems to me, judging from conversations I've had with bemused friends and neighbours, all of whom are quick to assert that there's no tax to pay on top of the cost of railway tickets) and so long as it's misconstrued to be a nice little earner for HM Treasury, consumer antipathy is going to continue on. How much leeway Carlisle Airport itself has in regard to the APD level applicable, I don't know, but candidly, what with the "tax" ogre and the idiocy of Loganair's dysfunctional online booking facility, one would have to be an ultra optimist to see a longterm future for the airport.
Magellan
Sometimes I've had problems navigating airline websites but I've just done a dummy booking for CAX-SEN-CAX on 14th and 17th February and encountered no difficulties. The only thing I find that's not completely intuitive is that you have to click on the flight details panel for the date chosen in order to bring up the available fares, but apart from that it seems straightforward enough. The return fare for the dates I selected was £113.70 per person which I don't think unreasonable. Maybe try again and see if you have better luck with the website this time.
Sometimes I've had problems navigating airline websites but I've just done a dummy booking for CAX-SEN-CAX on 14th and 17th February and encountered no difficulties. The only thing I find that's not completely intuitive is that you have to click on the flight details panel for the date chosen in order to bring up the available fares, but apart from that it seems straightforward enough. The return fare for the dates I selected was £113.70 per person which I don't think unreasonable. Maybe try again and see if you have better luck with the website this time.
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I finally managed to get a quote out of Loganair for Mrs M and myself, return, CAX-SEN total fare £164 PLUS total tax: £143.40 Total = £307.40, the vexed Air Passenger Duty issue raised its ugly head.
The topic isn't fully understood by the public at large (or so it seems to me, judging from conversations I've had with bemused friends and neighbours, all of whom are quick to assert that there's no tax to pay on top of the cost of railway tickets) and so long as it's misconstrued to be a nice little earner for HM Treasury, consumer antipathy is going to continue on. How much leeway Carlisle Airport itself has in regard to the APD level applicable,
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The topic isn't fully understood by the public at large (or so it seems to me, judging from conversations I've had with bemused friends and neighbours, all of whom are quick to assert that there's no tax to pay on top of the cost of railway tickets) and so long as it's misconstrued to be a nice little earner for HM Treasury, consumer antipathy is going to continue on. How much leeway Carlisle Airport itself has in regard to the APD level applicable,
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A lot don't.
As SWBKB unnnecessarily reminded me earlier, :Loganair clearly displays the tax component (like most other airlines I've ever used) in its quotes. The point I was making -- in the context of my belief that Carlisle Airport's future isn't going to be ensured by non-business travelers, and that there ain't enough business travelers to sustain it longterm -- was that perception is all, whether it be right or wrong.
The perceptiion of "tax" is such that nobody has ever said "oh goody, look: there's tax to pay, let's do it!" And in the context of non-business travel, where passengers aren't insulated from reality by corporate bookings and expense accounts, the tax issue is even more off-putting. You can spend as long as you want pointing out to people that their train tickets also include tax, and that just about every damn thing you buy in this country includes tax, but that makes no difference. They look at flight tickets, and then a seemingly separate tax bill levied on top, and if there's a viable alternative on offer, say: 'No thanks: no chance". Thoae alternatives don't exist in abundance for international travel, but domestic travel is a different matter. . .
Tot up the overall cost of CAX-SEN return tickets compared with using a Two Together rail card for a return trip to central London rather than somewhere outside of it in Essex, and for domestic non-business users, there's no competition. Mrs M and I fly twice every year from Newcastle to southern Spain and back and each trip is considerably less than Loganair's £300+ (including tax) Carlisle - London Southend fare. We won't be the only ones in this part of the world who can do the math.
Incidentally, we moved up here 20 years ago from Heald Green, Cheshire. We lived there for umpteen decades during which time we watched neighbouring Manchester Airport grow and grow. . . and how delighted we were that it did, considering the stimulus it gave to the area economy. Sadly, those who ever thought that a 'proper' Carlisle Airport would do the same for Carlisle and its surrounding area are most probably delusional.
As SWBKB unnnecessarily reminded me earlier, :Loganair clearly displays the tax component (like most other airlines I've ever used) in its quotes. The point I was making -- in the context of my belief that Carlisle Airport's future isn't going to be ensured by non-business travelers, and that there ain't enough business travelers to sustain it longterm -- was that perception is all, whether it be right or wrong.
The perceptiion of "tax" is such that nobody has ever said "oh goody, look: there's tax to pay, let's do it!" And in the context of non-business travel, where passengers aren't insulated from reality by corporate bookings and expense accounts, the tax issue is even more off-putting. You can spend as long as you want pointing out to people that their train tickets also include tax, and that just about every damn thing you buy in this country includes tax, but that makes no difference. They look at flight tickets, and then a seemingly separate tax bill levied on top, and if there's a viable alternative on offer, say: 'No thanks: no chance". Thoae alternatives don't exist in abundance for international travel, but domestic travel is a different matter. . .
Tot up the overall cost of CAX-SEN return tickets compared with using a Two Together rail card for a return trip to central London rather than somewhere outside of it in Essex, and for domestic non-business users, there's no competition. Mrs M and I fly twice every year from Newcastle to southern Spain and back and each trip is considerably less than Loganair's £300+ (including tax) Carlisle - London Southend fare. We won't be the only ones in this part of the world who can do the math.
Incidentally, we moved up here 20 years ago from Heald Green, Cheshire. We lived there for umpteen decades during which time we watched neighbouring Manchester Airport grow and grow. . . and how delighted we were that it did, considering the stimulus it gave to the area economy. Sadly, those who ever thought that a 'proper' Carlisle Airport would do the same for Carlisle and its surrounding area are most probably delusional.
Thread Starter
I think those that know the history and past failings..would never be surprised at a possible future problem..check back on previous posts by many.
It won’t work and never could..relying on business types...nope....relying on tourists for lakes!! Nope...
just a matter of time..sorry.
Similar to over here..TIA..great airport..plodding on with essential services and then someone comes along and promises the earth at great cost to the Teesside taxpayer..result...probably yet more heartache and unnecessary bad press for the airport.
Money,much better spent on the infrastructure of the area.
Carlisle...a great little airport for Light aircraft and essential business flights..
Tell you what though...could be a great transport logistics base for someone? (Sorry,I know..it’s a broken record)
It won’t work and never could..relying on business types...nope....relying on tourists for lakes!! Nope...
just a matter of time..sorry.
Similar to over here..TIA..great airport..plodding on with essential services and then someone comes along and promises the earth at great cost to the Teesside taxpayer..result...probably yet more heartache and unnecessary bad press for the airport.
Money,much better spent on the infrastructure of the area.
Carlisle...a great little airport for Light aircraft and essential business flights..
Tell you what though...could be a great transport logistics base for someone? (Sorry,I know..it’s a broken record)
Tot up the overall cost of CAX-SEN return tickets compared with using a Two Together rail card for a return trip to central London rather than somewhere outside of it in Essex, and for domestic non-business users, there's no competition. Mrs M and I fly twice every year from Newcastle to southern Spain and back and each trip is considerably less than Loganair's £300+ (including tax) Carlisle - London Southend fare. We won't be the only ones in this part of the world who can do the math.
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Join Date: May 2002
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Magellan, i really don't get the point you're trying to make about the tax. It's payable regardless of whether the person is aware of it or not. No-one is going to pay extra for a flight just because they know that the extra is tax. it's the final price that matters and that is what everyone is always going to compare.
And last time I looked, there were more routes on offer than just Southend. Good luck taking a train to Dublin and Belfast.
Lets not forget that the new terminal was built at minimum cost, so operating costs are not going to be all that high. Most will be offset by the Stobart offices anyway. Combined with rental income from the logistics hub and the proposed industrial development on site, then the airport will be doing just fine.
And last time I looked, there were more routes on offer than just Southend. Good luck taking a train to Dublin and Belfast.
Lets not forget that the new terminal was built at minimum cost, so operating costs are not going to be all that high. Most will be offset by the Stobart offices anyway. Combined with rental income from the logistics hub and the proposed industrial development on site, then the airport will be doing just fine.
Lets not forget that the new terminal was built at minimum cost, so operating costs are not going to be all that high
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