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Leeds-6

Old 18th Nov 2017, 12:21
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Teevee.. Sorry, not to hijack the thread. What might that pub be called?

I really don't think there's much need for runway extensions anymore. Airports like Leeds, Newcastle, Bristol, Liverpool etc. have managed for decades with these runways, and in the past with far inferior aircraft technology.

The future is Dreamliners, A350's, 737 MAX's, A320neo's, A330neo's, 777X's and the elusive MOM aircraft.

Anything that the A300/A310, 767, 737 classics, 1st gen A320/A321, A330ceo and 757 did out of these airports on a daily basis from the 80's onwards. These aircraft can do better.

We are now in a situation where 10+ hour long haul flights are perfectly possible, non stop from the likes of Bristol's 6500ft runway, thanks to the 787. The 737 MAX means that Cork's 7000ft is perfectly ample for a non stop flight to New England.

It's never been more pertinent to say "it's not how long it is, it's what you do with it"
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Old 18th Nov 2017, 12:23
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Originally Posted by EGPO View Post
Ok maybe a silly question . Is there land to the west of LBA suitable for a replacement Runway of decent length and orientation ?
IIRC the land slopes away pretty sharply on that side before rising again towards Bramhope. Topography might allow a runway on broadly current orientation but not anything on a conventional broadly E/W alignment. Any such work would be a complete rebuild on larger scale than that carried out in mid sixties (R/W 15/33 and 'new' terminal), far too costly.

A short extension towards Horsforth (ie 32 end) looks possible but would involve some heroic landfilling or a Funchal type viaduct.

There was some talk ten or more years ago of some minor work at that end that would improve matters for autolands which, at least on some types, tend to float down the slope and land after the TDZ requiring heavy braking etc.

Don't know what became of that 'plan'.

NB: Checking an OS map for this I note it still shows Springfield School in the junction of Scotland Lane and Whtehouse Lanes. It's nearly 30 years since the site closed as a School. Much of it's surrounding land is now under the airport but I believe the building is still extant and in commercial use.
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Old 18th Nov 2017, 12:39
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TriStar overrun 1985

The accident to G-BBAI was not caused in any way by GPWS activity. A hard GPWS "Pull Up" command would have required a mandatory go-around, then as now. "Terrain" warnings on final approach in hilly terrain were treated as nuisance warnings and would not of themselves be the cause of deviation from the final stages of a stabilised approach. Modern day EGPWS takes care of the problem ,as already noted above.

The approach was an SRA onto RW14, there being no RW14 ILS in those days. The slope was 3.5 degrees and the threshold was displaced, both for obstacle clearance reasons.

The AAIB accident report concentrated on issues such as the braking capabilities and certification of the L1011, wet runway friction and the effect of the dished profile of the touchdown zone. The landing weight was close to the performance limited Regulated Landing Weight.

Last edited by Tagron; 18th Nov 2017 at 12:57.
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Old 18th Nov 2017, 13:02
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EK, sorry I can't remember! I found it by accident and have since moved so only been there once! Had been on the top of the Chevin enjoying the peace and quiet and watching a few approaches then on the way back across the top to the main road I saw it, pulled into the car park and was really surprised to find it practically on the runway heading with the runway below. It really was a splendid view! I'll see if I can find it! From what I can find I suspect it was the Royalty
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Old 18th Nov 2017, 13:42
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It is The Royalty.
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Old 18th Nov 2017, 16:55
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Originally Posted by Airbanda View Post

A short extension towards Horsforth (ie 32 end) looks possible but would involve some heroic landfilling or a Funchal type viaduct.


That's where the main option for the airport access road is going. Can't see it at that end. Anyway the issues are wind, fog and occasionally snow. A longer runway doesn't help with any of them does it?
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Old 18th Nov 2017, 21:15
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Originally Posted by Mooncrest View Post
It is The Royalty.
Everything you need to know here

https://whatpub.com/pubs/LEE/442/royalty-otley
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Old 23rd Nov 2017, 17:48
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Originally Posted by anothertyke View Post
That's where the main option for the airport access road is going. Can't see it at that end. Anyway the issues are wind, fog and occasionally snow. A longer runway doesn't help with any of them does it?
If they're putting the access road there (where the A1/M1 link would once have gone!) it might make the groundwork for a short extension easier, or at least share cost between two projects. One of the issues is that with LDA significantly less than 2000m the runway is too short for some operators. Won't help with wind but problem in fog can be inability to take a slight tailwind on 32. A bit more runway might help there?
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Old 24th Nov 2017, 20:42
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More landing distance would help in fog,crosswind or contaminated runway situations.

Its a no brainer but as has been said before, little or no business case to do so. Yorkshire folk are happy to cross the hills to Manchester and it get easier all the time.
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Old 25th Nov 2017, 16:03
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That's alright for people around Leeds/Bradford, what about us on the East Coast?
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Old 25th Nov 2017, 16:45
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I assume the train journey to Manchester Airport is pretty straight forward from the east coast and should get better in the next few years.
Its not what I want to happen but it seems to be the way it is going with bucket and spade flights from Lba and business and Long haul plus many more bucket and spade destinations from Manchester.
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Old 25th Nov 2017, 19:39
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Don`t forget Liverpool with another choice for the bucket and spade runs. In the end its down to price, mostly cheaper (often by a lot) from there.But more flights giving more choice.Trains run straight into Manchester airport,from Leeds/Dewsbury/Huddersfield, doing away with car journeys and parking costs. LBA prices can too often be uncompetitive as well as having to use a car to get there, and Yorkshire folk won`t waste money.....ever
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Old 25th Nov 2017, 19:57
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When I lived in The Netherlands, MAN was my regular trip from DUS with BA. No problems, easy trip with train to the East Coast every hour. Now retired and living on the East Coast and seemingly MAN being evermore difficult we use LBA. KLM is a regular choice and LBA is a 75+ drive... better than 3 hours on the train. LBA prices with KLM are good... parking is good, better than HUY or MME which are equidistant. If only LBA could improve the access, that would be great.
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Old 25th Nov 2017, 22:00
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Have you ever thought of trying Flybe at DSA they operate AMS granted timings could be better , but they do have agreements with a fair few airlines .
I thought actually KLM was one of them.
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Old 26th Nov 2017, 07:19
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I assume the train journey to Manchester Airport is pretty straight forward from the east coast and should get better in the next few years.
Straightforward, but not a great experience - we're not talking cutting edge here! More Thomas the Tank Engine than Bullet Train!
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Old 26th Nov 2017, 10:10
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Trans Pennine who do those routes are refurbing already and taking delivery of new trains in the next year or so. I use them quite a bit and they are a long way from the `Thomas` type and certainly cutting edge over a lengthy queue on the M62 or even Leeds Ring Road, both of which are daily happenings
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Old 26th Nov 2017, 11:20
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Yes I agree Pauly went on one last night and very nice indeed

Last edited by chaps1954; 27th Nov 2017 at 09:16.
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Old 26th Nov 2017, 20:22
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Originally Posted by zed3 View Post
When I lived in The Netherlands, MAN was my regular trip from DUS with BA. No problems, easy trip with train to the East Coast every hour. Now retired and living on the East Coast and seemingly MAN being evermore difficult we use LBA. KLM is a regular choice and LBA is a 75+ drive... better than 3 hours on the train. LBA prices with KLM are good... parking is good, better than HUY or MME which are equidistant. If only LBA could improve the access, that would be great.
If you ever use MME, park at the St George Hotel which is 2 minutes walk to the terminal. Their prices are about 1/3 of the airport pre-pay rate.

In my experience, LBA is expensive if you are only going away for a few days.
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Old 26th Nov 2017, 23:44
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Just used Leeds Bradford this weekend for the first time in about 5 years, not much has changed. I'd use the word "functional" I think. But the road/transport situation leaves a lot to be desired I must admit.

Originally we had planned to get the train from Newcastle, and the bus to the airport, but our train was cancelled, and the next one wouldn't have gotten us to the airport in time for our flight. So I had to rush home for the car and drive down instead.

I don't know if it was just Apple Maps taking the mickey, but, following her instructions on the fastest route, we took the A1, A19 and A168 to the A59/A658... Which seemed like a bit of a trek and I was dubious as to whether I was actually on the main roads... That was until the journey back today where something went seriously wrong and we didn't join the A1M until Boroughbridge!

I wouldn't say any of this would stop me using LBA again in the future, but it does fall short in some areas compared to some other UK airports
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Old 27th Nov 2017, 09:06
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EK77WNCL why didn't you use Newcastle? Route A1 A59 A658 no idea why you went onto the A19.
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