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Old 14th Nov 2017, 08:05
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Look at the positives, without him this thread would only get bumped twice a year
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Old 14th Nov 2017, 12:27
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Not true, this is one of the best threads and only spoilt by one contributor every now and then. Maybe one day he will get the message.
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Old 15th Nov 2017, 16:06
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Lba

Not to feed the troll- far from it. but this debt , now that one company now has the total very large debt from two airports .
( Monarch went down and that was a real loss ).
To then have an airport which has well publicised WX issues .
Access issues which local authorities - central government own that fault.

Plus for future expansion the master plan is impressive .

But the WX will always be a thorn. LBA needs to grow.
But has the above issues .

Sadly where exactly does that poster think they'd move to ?
Not an Ex RAF Field close to the end of THE Proposed HS line. ( nimbys will have a field day ).

Plus DSA - is down the road. suffers WX occasionally but is well connected , huge site .

Finally LBA/DSA could easily one day ( never say never ) .
Norweigian offer these flights to ' Providence ' for example .
No need for big wide bodies .

As for Leeds being a housing Estate in 20 years -NO..
Even if every Airline left tommorow it's too long established with other business.

I won't name the other poster but to suggest closing such a long lasting site and move it close to a site where nobody has heard of.
Plus the legal challenge from locals to more than double that site - and HS2 .
Never going to happen imho.
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Old 15th Nov 2017, 16:52
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Its never going to happen in the rest of us`s opinion, but it doesn`t stop the `Other Poster` pretending it will.
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Old 15th Nov 2017, 17:44
  #45 (permalink)  
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LBA is not going to close as much as the Troll would like it too.

I'm sure I've read that AMP Capital have paid off some, if not all of the reported 89.5 million worth of debt as part of the deal to buy the airport from Bridgepoint.

It is well known that LBA has its downfalls operationally and Infrastructure wise. The airports new CEO seems to have his head screwed on and openly admits it's problems, But he wants to know how things can be improved, so is willing to listen other people opinion's. It also helps that at long last Leeds City Council are singing from the same hymn sheet.
The planned New Parkway/Park & Ride rail station on the Leeds-Harrogate-York line has to be built otherwise LCC stand to lose a load of government cash. Meanwhile money has been secured for the building of the A65-A658 link road, but both projects are a long way off as the still in the early development stages.

The airport had already secured an extra Jet2 based aircraft for next summer 2018 even before Monarch Airlines recent collapse.

So far 73% of Monarch's capacity for next summer 2018 has been replaced. Thomas Cook opening new base, Extra flights added by TUi and even further growth by Jet2. Rumour has it that Ryanair are possibly looking to increase capacity next summer as well.
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Old 16th Nov 2017, 23:39
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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I won't name the other poster but to suggest closing such a long lasting site and move it close to a site where nobody has heard of.
Not the only one to come up with such a daft and risible plan, Boris was pushing for the establishment of an airport in the Thames estuary ("Boris Island") and the closure of Heathrow.

That scheme never took off and is now never mentioned. Boris is now the MP for Uxbridge, a town near Heathrow. Could it be because he now has many constituents who work on the airport? Or is that too cynical?

Both "Boris Island" and Church Fenton have one important thing in common, they are both notoriously bad business propositions. Consequently, in a country where civil airports are privately owned, neither is going to fly.
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Old 17th Nov 2017, 01:38
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Ok maybe a silly question . Is there land to the west of LBA suitable for a replacement Runway of decent length and orientation ?
I know years back the current runway was a totally different alignment .
The original is now a taxiway is it not?.
Would such a project be possible and what would the current be retained if this was possible ?.
After all if Heathrow can look at new runways why not Leeds.
And this isn't meant to be a daft question .
I'm not up on this subject but with modern engineering and enough cash ? .
A runway more suitably aligned should eliminate the often heart stopping landings .
But moving the whole field who is to say airlines would follow.
Plus is Church Fenton not rather close to the military corridor in the East there , near to York .
Doesn't that pose conflicts for airliners on a long ILS approach ?.
Sorry if these seem silly questions . I'm curious and just can't get my head around shutting such a well established site.
Not to mention time and planning...
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Old 17th Nov 2017, 07:06
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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After all if Heathrow can look at new runways why not Leeds.
Cash is the simple answer. Tin hats on everyone!

How often does Leeds East get flooded from the Ouse?
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Old 17th Nov 2017, 07:18
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Plus is Church Fenton not rather close to the military corridor in the East there , near to York .
Doesn't that pose conflicts for airliners on a long ILS approach ?.
What have Church Fenton and an ILS got in common?
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Old 17th Nov 2017, 08:01
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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@EGPO

At absolute best, you could get an extra 500m or so from the start of R32, R14 has too much of a dip at the end to be useful. But it's probably going to be a step too far from a cash/engineering perspective, so it's best to leave R14/32 as it is.

There used to be R9/27, but you're correct it's now a taxiway. Also looking to re-align to a different heading, you wouldn't get the space without knocking houses down and p###ing a lot of people off.

We're stuck with LBA as it is, but hopefully the new owners have good plans for it

Last edited by Plane.Silly; 17th Nov 2017 at 08:02. Reason: Grammar
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Old 17th Nov 2017, 20:31
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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I agree. Beyond about 500m the land starts falling away to the valley between Guiseley and Menston. Nothing to be done.

'Often heart stopping landings'. Slight exaggeration. I must have landed at LBA over 100 times in the last 40 years. I can recall one go around, one where the guy plonked it down as if to say==you stay there== and one diversion to Teesside.

It will be interesting to see what the new owners plans are because inside the fence I'd say the greatest operating restriction is the lack of a full length taxiway. Of course there are thousands of hours per year where there is no capacity problem at all, but at 0730 on a Sat morning in July, it is constrained.
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Old 18th Nov 2017, 00:16
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks guys I guess I had madeira airport in mind . Runway extended on stilts .
I take it the old runway 27 is now too close to the terminal and again I take it there is sony not enough room.
I'm slightly surprised with for example London's cross rail and hs1 submerged. That with such civil engineering technology. With a combination of clever civil and compulsory purchase it couldn't be done.
Didn't they do similar at vagar. a runway on stilts .
Not to go off topic.
I agree the lack of a parralel taxiway isn't good but is an easy fix.
Playing devils advocate is there a theoretical limit to expansion ?.
Looking at Google Earth it seems they need to grab that land to the north west is it.
The end with the D2 A road in the tunnel.?
.would an extension of the existing runway ( in the masterplan) be any use if apron. Space is at a premium?.
I recall an exes grandad ( ex pilot ) before he died saying that side I mentioned and a better runway was the only real fix
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Old 18th Nov 2017, 01:35
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EGPO
Looking at Google Earth it seems they need to grab that land to the north west is it.

It's a very long time since I worked for Air UK but the problem coming in on rwy 14 is that there is high ground on the approach so much so that the GPWS would sound "too low, pull up" or whatever.

Apparently that is the mistake the British Airtours L-1011 made all those years ago, that the flight crew were unfamiliar with LBA, that they believed the GPWS and touched down way too late to stop in time before the end of the runway.
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Old 18th Nov 2017, 04:30
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Harry that's probably Otley Chevin. There's a nice pub about a mile off the end of 14 I guess and if you watch from there the runway is below you. I'm not a pilot but I believe the charts show a 3.5 glideslope to 14 and warn of nuisance GPWS at about 2 miles. Extending 14 closer to the hills wouldn't help much.

Last edited by Teevee; 18th Nov 2017 at 04:43.
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Old 18th Nov 2017, 05:41
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Harry - now that we're in the era of Enhanced GPWS those nuisance warnings don't occur going over the Chevin, but yes they were present when we had the previous version but have always been noted on the approach plate.
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Old 18th Nov 2017, 05:55
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It wasn't a criticism, it was a statement of fact, a previous poster suggested an extension of 14/32 to the north west, extend it much more and the aircraft may be flying in to the Royalty pub rather than over it!

Perhaps a video of approaches to rwy 10 at St. Barthelemy might get the message across:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBxpxK3MO5w

Last edited by Harry Wayfarers; 18th Nov 2017 at 10:57.
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Old 18th Nov 2017, 10:51
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EGPO
Thanks guys I guess I had madeira airport in mind . Runway extended on stilts .
I stand to be corrected, but I believe Funchal ATC don't routinely allow landings on Runway 23 (approaching the 'elevated' end). I assume this is risk based, but could be due to prevailing winds. If true, and Leeds did something similar, it would surely place operational constraints on the airport.

Originally Posted by EGPO
I'm slightly surprised with for example London's cross rail and hs1 submerged. That with such civil engineering technology. With a combination of clever civil and compulsory purchase it couldn't be done.
I don't think anyone denies it could be done. But it would be very expensive and very difficult if not impossible to justify in terms of ROI.
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Old 18th Nov 2017, 11:07
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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It's not something that Funchal ATC have any control over, it is simply a matter of the prevailing wind. The wind either favours 05 or 23. I've certainly made approaches to both ends.
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Old 18th Nov 2017, 11:35
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Fair enough, I stand corrected!

The more fundamental point, though, is that the civil works would be prohibitively expensive. They could be justified at Funchal, but not at Leeds.
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Old 18th Nov 2017, 12:13
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Hi guys..

Personally I don't know what your all moaning about... I'm from DTV, "so you should think yourselves lucky!" I always tend to fly through LBA now, and although its over crowed, I tend to find it very organised.. "unlike the shambles up here"

If you want to shift the Airport then head up here with your management... as I for one would be over the moon...
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