Loganair-2
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https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-norfolk-50644855
Not really a surprise after the rapid over-hasty expansion.
Not really a surprise after the rapid over-hasty expansion.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Dorset
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They’ve been flying Norwich to Manchester for years and years though and it’s that route stopping which Is said to be the issue! Not sure how you join the dots between the recent splurge of expansion and this event, to be honest.
I don't think replacing the D328 with an Embraer did anything to help the route as I find the Embraer rather cramped and not suited to my 6ft 2in frame, whereas the D328 felt much better. The block times for both types must be very similar so their hopes of increasing pax numbers by putting 'a jet' on the route seems optimistic; in reality pax numbers for the past four months are almost identical to those of the same period last year.
I cant think of any other European operator operating small regional jets on such short sectors such as Loganair do.
Lat year a total of 19,940 pax flew the NWI-MAN route, while in 2017 it was 26,209. Going back to 2008 that figure was 42,846 so there has been a huge drop off in traffic on the route. Who has operated NWI-MAN over the years? I can recall it being a Flybe route (I think) that was then franchised to Loganair and latterly operated by them in their own right. I wonder how the fares have changed over the years because they seem quite high these days and I wonder if, perhaps in the Flybe days, fares were lower in real terms. Otherwise it's hard to see why the pax numbers fell off so dramatically as the train journey still takes nearly 5 hours and by road it takes about the same amount of time.
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Lat year a total of 19,940 pax flew the NWI-MAN route, while in 2017 it was 26,209. Going back to 2008 that figure was 42,846 so there has been a huge drop off in traffic on the route. Who has operated NWI-MAN over the years? I can recall it being a Flybe route (I think) that was then franchised to Loganair and latterly operated by them in their own right. I wonder how the fares have changed over the years because they seem quite high these days and I wonder if, perhaps in the Flybe days, fares were lower in real terms. Otherwise it's hard to see why the pax numbers fell off so dramatically as the train journey still takes nearly 5 hours and by road it takes about the same amount of time.
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This is surely a continuation of the trend that we've seen in recent years with shorter, overland domestic routes disappearing one by one by one - some along with the airlines that flew them. Loads of routes have gone - to name but a few:
Edinburgh to Inverness
Leeds to Bristol, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Glasgow, Exeter
Newcastle to Stansted, Gatwick, Birmingham
Manchester to Glasgow, Newcastle, Stansted, Gatwick and now Norwich
Norwich to Exeter
Plymouth and Blackpool in their entirety
Double APD on domestic return flights, increased hassle and queuing times at airport security and, in some cases, improving rail services all make for a pretty unhappy picture for UK mainland routes. Norwich-Manchester just gets added to that very long list, of which I am sure I will only have covered a fraction above. The surprise is that it's lasted far longer than many of the others, not that it has now gone, I'd say.
Edinburgh to Inverness
Leeds to Bristol, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Glasgow, Exeter
Newcastle to Stansted, Gatwick, Birmingham
Manchester to Glasgow, Newcastle, Stansted, Gatwick and now Norwich
Norwich to Exeter
Plymouth and Blackpool in their entirety
Double APD on domestic return flights, increased hassle and queuing times at airport security and, in some cases, improving rail services all make for a pretty unhappy picture for UK mainland routes. Norwich-Manchester just gets added to that very long list, of which I am sure I will only have covered a fraction above. The surprise is that it's lasted far longer than many of the others, not that it has now gone, I'd say.
Join Date: Feb 2012
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Last year a total of 19,940 pax flew the NWI-MAN route, while in 2017 it was 26,209. Going back to 2008 that figure was 42,846 so there has been a huge drop off in traffic on the route. Who has operated NWI-MAN over the years? I can recall it being a Flybe route (I think) that was then franchised to Loganair and latterly operated by them in their own right. I wonder how the fares have changed over the years because they seem quite high these days and I wonder if, perhaps in the Flybe days, fares were lower in real terms. Otherwise it's hard to see why the pax numbers fell off so dramatically as the train journey still takes nearly 5 hours and by road it takes about the same amount of time.
Route then relaunched twice-daily (Mo to Fr) in early 1994 by Interline, who used J31, later Short 330. After their demise in spring 1996, Suckling came onto the route with Do228, but gave up the route soon after becoming Scot Airways in late 1999. Eastern replaced them from Feb 2000, with J31, until May 2006, and bmi regional also flew the route briefly for a couple of months in early 2004 (ERJ).
Flybe started service with larger Dash 8 in May 2006, and flew the route until March 2012, when Loganair took over responsibility using the Do328 (initially flown for them by Suckling, prior to integration). Loganair of course operated under the Flybe franchise until Sep 2017, and the ERJ then replaced the Dornier in March 2019. Peak annual passenger numbers were about 47k in 2007, the first full year of Flybe service.
northsands
Thanks for the very comprehensive history of the NWI-MAN route. Obviously it was the introduction of the Dash 8 in 2006 that caused the jump in passenger numbers - probably linked to much more attractive fares than previously was possible. Maybe the market is still there but not at the fares that the ERJ operation needs to charge. Norwich, with its 5 hour road or rail journey times to Manchester, would possibly still seem to merit an air service.
Thanks for the very comprehensive history of the NWI-MAN route. Obviously it was the introduction of the Dash 8 in 2006 that caused the jump in passenger numbers - probably linked to much more attractive fares than previously was possible. Maybe the market is still there but not at the fares that the ERJ operation needs to charge. Norwich, with its 5 hour road or rail journey times to Manchester, would possibly still seem to merit an air service.
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The numbers and yield are probably there but its matching that up with the right carrier and air frame to use is the issue and I guess not just for LM and NWI but the wider domestic airline business model
Join Date: May 2006
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Most definitely the use of a fuel hungry ERJ on such a short route was the cause of this, honestly wouldn't surprise me if eastern turn up with a J41 and take it on.
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I used the BE service on a regular basis 2006-2007 for work, much quicker and easier than the train, admittedly helped by the fact that at the time I lived near Norwich Airport and my work was based in Wilmslow. Flights were always busy (to be fair I used the popular Sunday evening or Mon morning out, Fri evening back flights) and fares were IIRC very reasonable, Finance certainly never complained when I put my expenses in!
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Lat year a total of 19,940 pax flew the NWI-MAN route, while in 2017 it was 26,209. Going back to 2008 that figure was 42,846 so there has been a huge drop off in traffic on the route. Who has operated NWI-MAN over the years? I can recall it being a Flybe route (I think) that was then franchised to Loganair and latterly operated by them in their own right. I wonder how the fares have changed over the years because they seem quite high these days and I wonder if, perhaps in the Flybe days, fares were lower in real terms. Otherwise it's hard to see why the pax numbers fell off so dramatically as the train journey still takes nearly 5 hours and by road it takes about the same amount of time.