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Loganair-2

Old 21st Nov 2019, 10:29
  #861 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 57
Originally Posted by scodaman View Post
Something odd when attempting to book LDY-MAN in Jan 2020 with Loganair.

Only bookable days in Jan 2020 are the Friday 3rd Jan and Sunday 5th Jan. All other days showing a red X and 'Sold Out'.

Anyone know whats up?
You could book Ryanair to Liverpool instead.
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Old 21st Nov 2019, 13:09
  #862 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
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LM are dropping there GLA-SEN service from 3rd January.
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Old 21st Nov 2019, 13:21
  #863 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Originally Posted by BAladdy View Post
LM are dropping there GLA-SEN service from 3rd January.
They’re clearly rationing their offering for the winter. There are clearly good reasons for their approach.
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Old 21st Nov 2019, 14:45
  #864 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: UK
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Originally Posted by BAladdy View Post
LM are dropping there GLA-SEN service from 3rd January.
Old news. They dropped their route last week and BE announced resumption of SEN-GLA.
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Old 21st Nov 2019, 14:45
  #865 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
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They are dropping GLA-SEN because Flybe/Virgin Connect are starting the same route thrice daily from Ist May 20.
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Old 4th Dec 2019, 06:34
  #866 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Planet earth
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https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-norfolk-50644855

Not really a surprise after the rapid over-hasty expansion.
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Old 4th Dec 2019, 06:58
  #867 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
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They’ve been flying Norwich to Manchester for years and years though and it’s that route stopping which Is said to be the issue! Not sure how you join the dots between the recent splurge of expansion and this event, to be honest.
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Old 4th Dec 2019, 08:56
  #868 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
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I don't think replacing the D328 with an Embraer did anything to help the route as I find the Embraer rather cramped and not suited to my 6ft 2in frame, whereas the D328 felt much better. The block times for both types must be very similar so their hopes of increasing pax numbers by putting 'a jet' on the route seems optimistic; in reality pax numbers for the past four months are almost identical to those of the same period last year.
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Old 4th Dec 2019, 11:15
  #869 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: UK
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Originally Posted by Albert Hall View Post
They’ve been flying Norwich to Manchester for years and years though and it’s that route stopping which Is said to be the issue! Not sure how you join the dots between the recent splurge of expansion and this event, to be honest.
Its clearly not profitable to have a fuel hungry regional jet on such a short route. As stated above there is no passenger gain to be had putting an Embraer on the route compared to the D328.

I cant think of any other European operator operating small regional jets on such short sectors such as Loganair do.
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Old 4th Dec 2019, 11:44
  #870 (permalink)  
 
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Back in January 2005 the route carried 1,361 passengers. This increased to a maximum of 4,880 in July 2006 but has since dropped back to 1,746 in October this year.
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Old 4th Dec 2019, 14:43
  #871 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Lat year a total of 19,940 pax flew the NWI-MAN route, while in 2017 it was 26,209. Going back to 2008 that figure was 42,846 so there has been a huge drop off in traffic on the route. Who has operated NWI-MAN over the years? I can recall it being a Flybe route (I think) that was then franchised to Loganair and latterly operated by them in their own right. I wonder how the fares have changed over the years because they seem quite high these days and I wonder if, perhaps in the Flybe days, fares were lower in real terms. Otherwise it's hard to see why the pax numbers fell off so dramatically as the train journey still takes nearly 5 hours and by road it takes about the same amount of time.
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Old 4th Dec 2019, 15:07
  #872 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Originally Posted by Expressflight View Post
Lat year a total of 19,940 pax flew the NWI-MAN route, while in 2017 it was 26,209. Going back to 2008 that figure was 42,846 so there has been a huge drop off in traffic on the route. Who has operated NWI-MAN over the years? I can recall it being a Flybe route (I think) that was then franchised to Loganair and latterly operated by them in their own right. I wonder how the fares have changed over the years because they seem quite high these days and I wonder if, perhaps in the Flybe days, fares were lower in real terms. Otherwise it's hard to see why the pax numbers fell off so dramatically as the train journey still takes nearly 5 hours and by road it takes about the same amount of time.
Wasn't the route originally operates by Suckling Airways who then acquired by Loganair and operated as part of the Flybe franchise
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Old 4th Dec 2019, 16:35
  #873 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
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This is surely a continuation of the trend that we've seen in recent years with shorter, overland domestic routes disappearing one by one by one - some along with the airlines that flew them. Loads of routes have gone - to name but a few:

Edinburgh to Inverness
Leeds to Bristol, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Glasgow, Exeter
Newcastle to Stansted, Gatwick, Birmingham
Manchester to Glasgow, Newcastle, Stansted, Gatwick and now Norwich
Norwich to Exeter
Plymouth and Blackpool in their entirety

Double APD on domestic return flights, increased hassle and queuing times at airport security and, in some cases, improving rail services all make for a pretty unhappy picture for UK mainland routes. Norwich-Manchester just gets added to that very long list, of which I am sure I will only have covered a fraction above. The surprise is that it's lasted far longer than many of the others, not that it has now gone, I'd say.
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Old 4th Dec 2019, 16:41
  #874 (permalink)  
 
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Suckling was originally Ipswich and then changed to Cambridge.
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Old 4th Dec 2019, 16:53
  #875 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Dorset
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via RAF Wattisham in between.
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Old 4th Dec 2019, 17:10
  #876 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
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Originally Posted by Expressflight View Post
Last year a total of 19,940 pax flew the NWI-MAN route, while in 2017 it was 26,209. Going back to 2008 that figure was 42,846 so there has been a huge drop off in traffic on the route. Who has operated NWI-MAN over the years? I can recall it being a Flybe route (I think) that was then franchised to Loganair and latterly operated by them in their own right. I wonder how the fares have changed over the years because they seem quite high these days and I wonder if, perhaps in the Flybe days, fares were lower in real terms. Otherwise it's hard to see why the pax numbers fell off so dramatically as the train journey still takes nearly 5 hours and by road it takes about the same amount of time.
First NWI-MAN schedule was flown by Air Anglia, for about a year during 1971-72. Twice weekly by Islander, which then also went on to LPL. Single fare was initially £11...
Route then relaunched twice-daily (Mo to Fr) in early 1994 by Interline, who used J31, later Short 330. After their demise in spring 1996, Suckling came onto the route with Do228, but gave up the route soon after becoming Scot Airways in late 1999. Eastern replaced them from Feb 2000, with J31, until May 2006, and bmi regional also flew the route briefly for a couple of months in early 2004 (ERJ).
Flybe started service with larger Dash 8 in May 2006, and flew the route until March 2012, when Loganair took over responsibility using the Do328 (initially flown for them by Suckling, prior to integration). Loganair of course operated under the Flybe franchise until Sep 2017, and the ERJ then replaced the Dornier in March 2019. Peak annual passenger numbers were about 47k in 2007, the first full year of Flybe service.
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 09:09
  #877 (permalink)  
 
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northsands

Thanks for the very comprehensive history of the NWI-MAN route. Obviously it was the introduction of the Dash 8 in 2006 that caused the jump in passenger numbers - probably linked to much more attractive fares than previously was possible. Maybe the market is still there but not at the fares that the ERJ operation needs to charge. Norwich, with its 5 hour road or rail journey times to Manchester, would possibly still seem to merit an air service.
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 09:24
  #878 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2017
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The numbers and yield are probably there but its matching that up with the right carrier and air frame to use is the issue and I guess not just for LM and NWI but the wider domestic airline business model
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 09:58
  #879 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
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Originally Posted by Alteagod View Post
The numbers and yield are probably there but its matching that up with the right carrier and air frame to use is the issue and I guess not just for LM and NWI but the wider domestic airline business model
Most definitely the use of a fuel hungry ERJ on such a short route was the cause of this, honestly wouldn't surprise me if eastern turn up with a J41 and take it on.
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Old 5th Dec 2019, 10:34
  #880 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Originally Posted by NickBarnes View Post
Most definitely the use of a fuel hungry ERJ on such a short route was the cause of this, honestly wouldn't surprise me if eastern turn up with a J41 and take it on.
Me neither - especially with aforementioned train journey changes, the through Manchester-Norwich service is stopping and all journeys will require a change of trains in Nottingham. A J41 would make far more sense on this route, I think this could be the first of colds caught by LM due to the poor economics of using the ERJ on such short hops.

I used the BE service on a regular basis 2006-2007 for work, much quicker and easier than the train, admittedly helped by the fact that at the time I lived near Norwich Airport and my work was based in Wilmslow. Flights were always busy (to be fair I used the popular Sunday evening or Mon morning out, Fri evening back flights) and fares were IIRC very reasonable, Finance certainly never complained when I put my expenses in!

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