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Flybe-9

Old 7th Feb 2019, 20:58
  #1581 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
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BOHEiropean, you understand correct.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 21:23
  #1582 (permalink)  
 
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In recent times, it appears to have been the case that if a deal didn't go through quickly with someone, the airline would have ceased trading. The overnight emergency rescue mission only three weeks ago confirms that it was out of cash. Looking back, there was a statement before Christmas by Virgin which basically said "we are still interested" and no corresponding statement by Flybe at that time. The only reason I can think why Virgin would have made that statement is because the Directors of Flybe needed them to so that they could demonstrate a bidder was still interested and they could therefore continue trading through Christmas with the prospect of a better outcome for creditors and shareholders.

Today's announcement simply confirms what had previously been assumed to be the case through the actions of the Board.

Whether it should have been more transparent to shareholders as to the dire nature of Flybe's finances is a whole different question.

What I find most astonishing is in this evening's announcement that they are still talking up the CEO's "achievements". As far as anyone I know is concerned, one of the main reasons why Flybe is in such a mess is its leadership over the last couple of years. For the last act of this sorry saga to commence by saying that, since she arrived, it has had a clear strategy must rank as one of the most self-aggrandising statements ever. To blame (again) the failure on high fuel prices when they had one of the best hedging positions of any airline is an insult.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 22:06
  #1583 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Originally Posted by Reversethrustset View Post
All that's happening is the company are mitigating HOTAC costs so don't get excited. The rumour for a crew base was simply to ask the workforce if anyone wanted to be based in NQY which was probably aimed at those living in the catchment area, this does not indicate anything other than that.
Its a crew base, the crew have had a memo offering base transfers.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 23:25
  #1584 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, to mitigate nightstopping expenditure. My answer to cornishsimon was to refute why Flybe are going against their unwritten policy that they should have 3 or more aircraft in situ to enable a full "crew base" to be cost effective. NQY isn't and probably never will be a multi aircraft base with a full compliment of crew, that was my point.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 23:48
  #1585 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Agreed. Summer season NQY could sustain a full 3 aircraft base

3xdaily MAN Q400
4xdaily LHR Q400
1x daily BHX Q400

with a mixture of EDI, GLA, LBA, DSA etc etc to fill the third frame.

Of course that couldn’t be sustained during winter. But during summer they could easily fill 3 based aircraft with very minimal expansion or need for new routes.


cs
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 00:12
  #1586 (permalink)  
 
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But it's inordinately expensive to open a base, why do that for seasonal routes when most routes can emanate from the airports serving NQY? It won't happen.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 00:14
  #1587 (permalink)  
 
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Didn’t I just say that ?

if the market was year round it would be done. The market is summer seasonal only so it won’t happen


cs
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 05:45
  #1588 (permalink)  
 
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Notice from the BOD to be sent out this morning to all staff.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/47165902
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 07:07
  #1589 (permalink)  
 
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Actually, cornishsimon, no, I don't think you did.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 07:18
  #1590 (permalink)  
 
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If the airline has no money and basically facing insolvency how can it be allowed to sell tickets?
Can the CAA can pull the plug ?
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 08:21
  #1591 (permalink)  
 
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I don't know why some on here are waffling on about whether two or three aircraft are going to be based at Newquay etc, the main thing is will there still be Flybe in a few weeks time. The board have decided on a take it or leave it 1p share and if not agreed the airline will be closed down. The 10 million 'given' by Connect will have some guarantees attached to it ie assets so they do not lose there money and that money is not going to last that long I would think. Getting credit for fuel, landing fees etc. must be difficult at the moment.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 09:08
  #1592 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by compton3bravo View Post
I don't know why some on here are waffling on about whether two or three aircraft are going to be based at Newquay etc, the main thing is will there still be Flybe in a few weeks time. The board have decided on a take it or leave it 1p share and if not agreed the airline will be closed down. The 10 million 'given' by Connect will have some guarantees attached to it ie assets so they do not lose there money and that money is not going to last that long I would think. Getting credit for fuel, landing fees etc. must be difficult at the moment.
Compton - everything is running like it normally is with no issues on the day to day front line.
The airline and staff have been sold through the scheme of arrangement so the vote needed is whether to allow the sale of flybe group plc part into the hands of Connect. Either way the airline and staff carry on through what they did by the scheme of arrangement.
This is due to completed before the 22FEB so by the time the vote happens, the airline and staff are no longer part of the PLC.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 09:50
  #1593 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Leeds Spotter View Post
Its not the U.K., they issued in December what regulations would be in the event of the different options, but its deciding the position of airlines which have large U.K. resident shareholders, counted as E.U. residents today, who become non E.U. on the 29th March and folk such as me, who have both European and U.K. residency rights, who have not elected on the share register, our post 29th March position
The E.U. who have always insisted that to be a e.u. airline 50% + one share must be owned by e.u. residents, this is not how we establish ownership in the u.k. Four times last month the E.U. reminded airlines of this rule, stating that IAG was european, Easyjet unknown and Ryanair likely european. and that creative offices set up in Austria etc would not be an acceptable way to claim to be european..
Ryanair this Monday decided to amalgamate the present Irish, U.k. Polish etc companies in to one entity, as a start to resolving the matter.
BA is a spanish company (IAG) its shares issued in London and Madrid and having a world wide resident shareholder base. The e.u. on latest shareholder information ruled IAG a european company and therefore could not fly direct from the u.k. to the States after the transition period. The group could easily become either American owned or U.K. owned with a small shareholders movement.
Flybe routes from the u.k. to europe can continue after the 29th March as long as E.U. residents dont make up over 50% of the shareholding, in the U.K. we dont mind who own's the shares, this makes us so different from both the E.U. and the States where again a company for airline status must be majority American residents owned.
You are right in that whoever owns FlyBe has no real effect on their ability to fly routes within the UK. However, it can be extremely important for operations to other countries as those are governed by the specific bi/multi-lateral agreement. A future EU-UK agreement could easily stipulate airlines with UK AOCs flying to Europe be majority UK or EU owned. In fact the current draft UK-US agreement that is meant to supplant the EU-US agreement that the UK has elected to leave not only stipulates a majority UK ownership but also UK control. For this to be met the airline has to demonstrate that it's shareholders, and the shareholders of any legal but non-natural person that holds shares in the airline are UK persons. This means that if a UK registered company owned 75% of Flybe but 100% of it's shareholders were American then Flybe would not qualify as UK owned. The control is even trickier as you have to demonstrate that the single largest shareholder, if they are not UK, cannot own 25% or more of the shares, plus a lot of other stipulations. Had this been forced into the agreement it would have banned BA, TOM, and even VS from flying to the US. The UK has negotiated a clause for EU owned or controlled airlines can continue flying existing routes but need to asks for permission to open new ones.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 09:55
  #1594 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Weathergirly View Post
Notice from the BOD to be sent out this morning to all staff.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/47165902
This basically looks like blackmail.

After the recent offering from Mr Tinkler being rejected and now this. We can all clearly see that the Virgin deal has been underhanded and dirty from the start. No doubt with plenty of backhanders. No wonder people still can't see Virgin being the best fit for the airline - even if its being touted as "the only option".
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 09:59
  #1595 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
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Originally Posted by rog747 View Post
If the airline has no money and basically facing insolvency how can it be allowed to sell tickets?
Can the CAA can pull the plug ?
Yes and no. From an airline perspective they can withdraw or suspend the AOC. However, to do that the airline has to have violated the terms of the AOC. One of these is that it must be run by 'competent' persons. The exact definition of which I am not entire sure on. However, the current management has been deemed competent in the past and to deem them non-competent would not be trivial. However, one quick way to end up being controlled by non-competent persons is to go into administration. This is what happened to Monarch, the airline. For holiday companies the ATOL rules are different and that license can be suspended/non-renewed for different reasons. In Monarch's case when the CAA declined to renew the ATOL license that cut off the vast majority of the groups revenue stream and with it the airlines revenue stream. Hence why both went into administration, causing the AOC to be suspended, which is why the CAA had to charter non Monarch aircraft to repatriate holiday makers. Flybe isn't beholden to ATOL sales revenue so there is not that cliff edge. As long as they can obtain funding to keep paying their bills they can operate indefinitely. However, it looks like is has gotten really hard to obtain that funding.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 10:14
  #1596 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cazza_fly View Post
This basically looks like blackmail.

After the recent offering from Mr Tinkler being rejected and now this. We can all clearly see that the Virgin deal has been underhanded and dirty from the start. No doubt with plenty of backhanders. No wonder people still can't see Virgin being the best fit for the airline - even if its being touted as "the only option".
How does it qualify as blackmail? I am not even sure it remotely qualifies as extortion. It is a statement of fact. As the current forecast of the future stands, once the sale of the airline and the website are completed Flybe PLC is an unsustainable concern, it has no revenue or assets. Therefore, it either has to sell itself, invest the proceeds from the sale into a new business, or wind itself up and return any remaining money to the shareholders. The deal with Connect Airways, which is not jut Virgin Atlantic, but also Stobart and Cyrus capital, may or may not be underhanded. However, unless you have access to evidence which is not in the public domain you cannot demonstrate it as such. For it to have been underhanded in a true sense it would have to extend back to before October, when the shareholders were asked to approve, and did approve, moving from a premium to standard listing. If you have the evidence please present it.

I have no horse in the Flybe race. I have nothing to gain from any permutation of futures for Flybe. However, it is, understandably, a topic that a lot of people are vested in for one reason or another and a lot of statements are flying around without any substantiation, some of which border on defamatory. It is entirely possible that no amount of 'excellent' management would save or have saved Flybe. It is also entirely possible that the current board is purposefully ignoring offers that are of better interest to Flybe shareholders than the Connect offer. However, neither of these or any other case has been demonstrated and substantiated.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 10:17
  #1597 (permalink)  
 
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Many thanks Pholling for the concise reply,
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 11:02
  #1598 (permalink)  
 
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Yes thanks pholling

There are two dates that reveal what's happening. By 22 Feb the deal to sell the airline "Flybe " to the consortium should be complete. This sale is being mounted by the group, Flybe PLC, which is selling all of its assets and will then exist as nothing more than pieces of paper on a desk.
If shareholder approval (that's shareholders of Flybe PLC not the airline) isn't forthcoming then Flybe PLC will be wound up. No effect on the airline as that will be owned by Virgin/Stobart/Cyrus.

As it stands the shareholders have a stark choice - get paid peanuts or nothing.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 12:12
  #1599 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
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The document outlining Virgin/Connect Airways plans.

https://headforpoints.us9.list-manag...4&e=3d17f31a3b
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 10:26
  #1600 (permalink)  
 
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So a share holder might have to pay tax on their 1 pence per share?
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