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Heathrow-2

Old 14th Feb 2018, 16:08
  #321 (permalink)  
 
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Yasin, I know you'll be very upset by today's events and raw emotions will run high,but your comments in hindsight may be something you'll regret.

Whoever was involved in another vehicle will be affected for the rest of their life.

Until the Coroner has held an Inquest, or adjourned pending legal proceedings, no one can judge peoples' actions.

I was OPS3 at Manchester Airport and attended many accidents and incidents over the years and some turned out to have factors that didn't come out for quite a while.

Having a general pop at what I presume are Heathrow Ops does nothing to help at what will also be an equally difficult time.
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 16:18
  #322 (permalink)  
 
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Yasin has a point though. I appreciate Ops vehicles have to get somewhere urgently to remove a barrier, marshal an aircraft, pick up FOD etc etc but LHR is not the only airport where Ops vehicles take it to the extreme and beyond speed wise....just saying.
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 16:21
  #323 (permalink)  
 
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Years back 05 ish, we all got nasties from company warning us of a 5k fine for not wearing our hi vis vests. Very next day that this came out our crew van that was white with hi vis yellow/orange/reflex grey painted all around it was hit by a tug, buddy was off for 3 months "thankfully all soft tissue injuries". The problem as I see it is a lack of situational awareness, act like everybody is trying to kill you and keep your head on a swivel...... also works on public roads. It may not prevent every accident, but it certainly won't hurt
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 16:37
  #324 (permalink)  
 
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I still think Ops vehicles should stick to the speed limits as everyone else.

The problem with High vis and High vis vehicles is when they become the norm they are no longer high vis to the naked eye, you get so use to them, the eye and brain switches off to seeing them, if that makes sense, indeed you probably would notice the person not wearing one as he would stand out..
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 16:40
  #325 (permalink)  
 
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If there has been a fatal accident, there will be an investigation, which involves not moving things until everything is measured.
Launch drone, fly a couple of orbits around the scene and overhead, sweep up and continue operations. That will give enough information to completely contruct the scene in a computer and give much, much more investigation information that previously possible. Information in a format that can be shared with the defence under disclosure without prejudice.
I know the person that passed away personally, he was engineer in my team. I just hope that the yellow patrol driver gets done for life and that teach them a lesson.
BBC reporting that the unfortunate engineer had a heart attack, and the other driver a broken shoulder. No word if the attack was before or after the accident, but certainly reason to pause before condemning a possibly innocent driver.
Man dies in Heathrow Airport vehicle crash - BBC News

I am sorry for your loss, however and honestly point no fingers. Quite a few friends of mine have passed before their time, sometimes their "fault", sometimes not - but it is always painful.
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 16:57
  #326 (permalink)  
 
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Just seen some photos on sky news website. HAL pick up has heavy front end damage, seems to have t-boned BA Engineering Renault Kangoo on passenger side.
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 19:18
  #327 (permalink)  
 
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I’ve worked at LHR since 1970. So I’ve seen a lot of incidents over the years. I don’t Know the facts in this case, so I shall reserve judgment. I do question the speeds that some of the ops vehicles travel at. Obviously out on the airfield and in response to an emergency then speed is essential. Speed should be reduced within the area of the parking stands and crossing points. Responding to a marshalling request, probably doesn’t require a high speed response. Police rapid response vehicle drivers are trained to a very high standard of defensive driving. Are airfield ops drivers trained to the same standard?
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 20:01
  #328 (permalink)  
 
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Agreed on the comments about the speed of airfield ops vehicles. They're all too keen on persecuting some catering truck driver for a minor breach of the rules, but the vehicles which concern me more than any others, are airfield ops. They should stick to the same limit as other vehicles on the ramp, unless they have an exemption from the laws of physics.

Last edited by ZeBedie; 14th Feb 2018 at 21:02.
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 21:31
  #329 (permalink)  
 
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Just seen the pictures.. This did happen in a ramp area? The BA vehicle if like my own at my place of work would have no general access to any taxiway, bar designated crossing routes? The damage says a lot, and if in the ramp area, it is not hard to work out whom has totally screwed up. Yes, I have seen the airfield seat belt police abuse the rules in my place more than once.
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 22:34
  #330 (permalink)  
 
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Isn’t there an official speed limit on the manoeuvring area (taxiways) around 40mph?

How this is policed or if it applies to all of it may even be advisory I do not know... but I would have thought or hoped there is some kind of limit.

Looks like airfield ops vehicle was vacating the taxiway at high speed and as it did so somehow didn’t see the BA vehicle on the ramp/stand and the incident occurred
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 23:12
  #331 (permalink)  
 
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I'm sorry to say that, as usual, too many are jumping to unfounded conclusions. As already mentioned, the unfortunate person died of a heart attack. He may well have suffered that heart infarct whilst driving and this may have been the primary cause of the accident. At this point we just don't know.
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Old 14th Feb 2018, 23:29
  #332 (permalink)  
 
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China Southern have filed an application to start WUHAN to LHR effective from 30 May 2018 three weekly with A333-200.

CZ673 WUH 14.25 LHR 18.45 332 1 3 5
CZ674 LHR 22.10 WUH 15.35+1 332 1 3 5
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 05:26
  #333 (permalink)  
 
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From 40 years of experience in and around these areas many of the HAL Ops staff drive at excessive speeds far faster than is necessary. In some cases should they be involved in marshalling an a/c on occasions they arrive on stand late almost making a handbrake stop.

They do act as a law unto themselves, mind saying that I believe there is over 6000 vehicles airside, many areas are cramped and congested, roadway speeds are 20mph and a/c stand speeds are 5mph. I am sure all of us that drive regularly will know how easy it is to exceed speed limits, I guess this is also more the case at quieter times with less vehicles about and this would have certainly applied to T5 at this time of the morning.

Whatever the outcome it is very sad for all those involved and doubtless will lead to another raft of Airside Regulations! Overall vehicle accidents have decreased dramatically over the last 10 years much of that down to regulations and continuity training / safety days etc. However HAL, Met Police and Heathrow Airport Users group try to police the system there will still be errors.
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 07:49
  #334 (permalink)  
 
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I have been working in BA in Heathrow airport for 5 years now, and as previously said, I am surprised this hasn´t happened before given the speed those Heathrow Ops drive at.

The rest of us, gets done for speeding if you are over 20mph, from 1st of march, 100 quid if your tabard is not fully buttoned up (yes, really) or leaving the keys inside a van.

All these things doesn´t seem to apply to Heathrow ops guys. That´s why I hope he gets done for it and it changes something. Because we all feel in the shift that our friend and colleague has been killed. Not just an accident. Our managers told us that the first insight is that he was driving at nearly 50 mph. A speed I can believe he was driving at as I have seen them going that fast a few times.
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 07:57
  #335 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Alber Ratman View Post
Just seen the pictures.. This did happen in a ramp area? The BA vehicle if like my own at my place of work would have no general access to any taxiway, bar designated crossing routes? The damage says a lot, and if in the ramp area, it is not hard to work out whom has totally screwed up.


Judging from the photo, the accident happened on one of the 55x stands on the western face of T5C.
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 09:05
  #336 (permalink)  
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The -300ER had arrived a couple of hours earlier from SIN and was on 555:

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Old 15th Feb 2018, 14:22
  #337 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hotel Tango View Post
I'm sorry to say that, as usual, too many are jumping to unfounded conclusions. As already mentioned, the unfortunate person died of a heart attack. He may well have suffered that heart infarct whilst driving and this may have been the primary cause of the accident. At this point we just don't know.
Never seen a vehicle move sideways into a pickup......
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 15:03
  #338 (permalink)  
 
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It doesn't need to move sideways, if the BA vehicle is moving uncontrolled (with the driver incapacitated), then it could conceivably have strayed into the path of the Ops vehicle in an unpredictable manner. Or it might not have. But you don't know, and you're jumping to a conclusion; A picture of the scene following an accident rarely paints a clear picture of the events leading up to it... Let the police do their job and investigate.
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 16:01
  #339 (permalink)  
 
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Laarbruch72

Which is precisely why there is a very low speed limit on the maneuvering areas - so that if something (a vehicle or an aircraft ) suddenly cuts across you you can stop in time.
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Old 15th Feb 2018, 16:06
  #340 (permalink)  
 
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Jetgirl So you base your findings on a post crash photograph which effectively tells you absolutely nothing! I guess you don't know the first thing about accident investigation. And anyway, I am not saying that it isn't the case, I am simply stating that we do not at present have all of the the facts at hand. Therefore, conclusions/allegations such as yours are, I repeat, presently totally unfounded!
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