Southend-2

[DC3 Dave]

Originally Posted by SWBKCB

Yes - but to all intents, the SEN operation seemed to be a largely independent operation running under the flyBe name so I would have thought it would be relatively simple to bolt on a Stobart front-end and carry on. I too was wondering if they had seen the forward bookings and thought "Naaah..."

Flights were booked through Flybe who now cannot pay Stobart for the passengers who have booked.

[AirportPlanner1]

Originally Posted by DC3 Dave

Flights were booked through Flybe who now cannot pay Stobart for the passengers they are due to fly.

Yes but this is different to Eastern and Blue Islands how exactly?

[DC3 Dave]

Originally Posted by AirportPlanner1

Yes but this is different to Eastern and Blue Islands how exactly?

Can’t answer that. More questions than answers right now.

[Expressflight]

Originally Posted by DC3 Dave

Flights were booked through Flybe who now cannot pay Stobart for the passengers who have booked.

They could still have offered 'rescue' fares on those routes from today. After all, the STK aircraft and crews that would have operated those routes are standing idle and costing money doing so. Many people would rather get to their booked destination through paying, say, £65 like easyJet are offering than cancel their trip entirely.

The same could have been done for IOM pax who have very limited options otherwise.

Edit: This seems exactly what Blue Islands are doing today.

[Wycombe]

Edit: This seems exactly what Blue Islands are doing today.

Indeed, BI are offering to fly people with a Flybe reservation for free today, or if no reservation for a £50 all-in walk-up fare at the airport.
This is until they have their own booking engine up and running, which they say they hope to do by Monday, if not sooner.

They are also operating replacement flights from the islands to EXT and BHX today - not normal routes for them.

Good for them.

Also don't understand why the Stobart-operated former Flybe franchise flights could not carry on in a similar way?

[virginblue]

I am really puzzled by this. Stobart has a fully operational "back office" for the EI-branded flights, so unless the BE-branded lfights were operated in some sort of joint company and not just, as it appeared all the time, under a common brand, stopping operations at a time when almost the whole domestic market is up for grabs and others are quickly moving in to benefit from this, is a somewhat strange business move. Particularly as most routes had little to do with BE's core network and should easily survive on a stand-alone basis.

[asdf1234]

Originally Posted by virginblue

I am really puzzled by this. Stobart has a fully operational "back office" for the EI-branded flights, so unless the BE-branded lfights were operated in some sort of joint company and not just, as it appeared all the time, under a common brand, stopping operations at a time when almost the whole domestic market is up for grabs and others are quickly moving in to benefit from this, is a somewhat strange business move. Particularly as most routes had little to do with BE's core network and should easily survive on a stand-alone basis.

Stobart Air is not an airline as such but a provider of wet-leased aircraft. They take zero risk with route profitability and simply charge a profitable fee to operate an aircraft on a route for an airline. If there were 1 or 49 passengers aboard the aircraft, Stobart got the same wet lease fee from Flybe. Stobart Air will redeploy the fleet to other airline customers looking for wet lease cover. I think the agreement with Eastern was different; Eastern paid a royalty to Flybe to operate under their brand name.

[runawayedge]

asdf1234...you are only 90% incorrect. The Embraer's and IOM operation was ACMI. All other flying was/is franchise at Stobart Air commercial risk. Stobart would have received forward sales revenue from Flybe for SEN operation.

[Expressflight]

Originally Posted by asdf1234

Stobart Air is not an airline as such but a provider of wet-leased aircraft. They take zero risk with route profitability and simply charge a profitable fee to operate an aircraft on a route for an airline.

No, that's just not true. For the Stobart SEN routes for example, Stobart took the commercial risk from the start with Flybe providing the back office and reservations system for a fee. Marketing was split between the two companies' teams but I don't know how the costs were allocated for that. I doubt you were involved in the setting up of that operation but I was.

Regarding the reasons for Stobart not trying to put together an ongoing operation on the lines of the Blue Islands model, I could be cynical and say 'well it is Stobart we're talking about', but I think it likely they can't now see any great financial benefit in doing so with the Covid-19 situation being what it is.

[asdf1234]

Originally Posted by Expressflight

No, that's just not true. For the Stobart SEN routes for example, Stobart took the commercial risk from the start with Flybe providing the back office and reservations system for a fee. Marketing was split between the two companies' teams but I don't know how the costs were allocated for that. I doubt you were involved in the setting up of that operation but I was.

Regarding the reasons for Stobart not trying to put together an ongoing operation on the lines of the Blue Islands model, I could be cynical and say 'well it is Stobart we're talking about', but I think it likely they can't now see any great financial benefit in doing so with the Covid-19 situation being what it is.

I stand corrected. But sad to hear that an airport owner has no confidence in running routes from its own airport. Was this a case of providing the illusion of demand to entice others to the airport?

[DC3 Dave]

Originally Posted by Wycombe

Indeed, BI are offering to fly people with a Flybe reservation for free today, or if no reservation for a £50 all-in walk-up fare at the airport.
This is until they have their own booking engine up and running, which they say they hope to do by Monday, if not sooner.

They are also operating replacement flights from the islands to EXT and BHX today - not normal routes for them.

Good for them.

Also don't understand why the Stobart-operated former Flybe franchise flights could not carry on in a similar way?

If you were a customer not knowing nor caring about franchise arrangements, how would you feel about paying again to board a Flybe branded aircraft?

[Expressflight]

Originally Posted by asdf1234

I stand corrected. But sad to hear that an airport owner has no confidence in running routes from its own airport. Was this a case of providing the illusion of demand to entice others to the airport?

Covid-19 must have escaped your attention.

[asdf1234]

Originally Posted by Expressflight

Covid-19 must have escaped your attention.

Not at all. It hasn't stopped me flying but I understand why others might not want to. However I see this as an easy excuse being used by the owners as to why they won't save their airline. Look back to SARS, swine fever, bird flu etc..., all come and go and the airlines keep flying.

I think the truth about Stobart Air and the FlyBe routes was that whilst the airport owned the airline, they used it to inflate the airport pax numbers and route network. Now the airline is owned by a consortium, they are happy to dump the SEN routes as they are deeply unprofitable.

[Wycombe]

Originally Posted by Wycombe View Post
Indeed, BI are offering to fly people with a Flybe reservation for free today, or if no reservation for a £50 all-in walk-up fare at the airport.
This is until they have their own booking engine up and running, which they say they hope to do by Monday, if not sooner.

They are also operating replacement flights from the islands to EXT and BHX today - not normal routes for them.

Good for them.

Also don't understand why the Stobart-operated former Flybe franchise flights could not carry on in a similar way?

If you were a customer not knowing nor caring about franchise arrangements, how would you feel about paying again to board a Flybe branded aircraft?

A lot of BI's Customers are regulars (as I have been recently) and are very well aware that the aircraft is painted in Flybe colours (or not, as at least 3 of the fleet are all white at present) but operated by Blue Islands. It's always mentioned that they are "operated by Blue Islands" in the onboard announcements.

At this time of year, in my recent experience, it's mainly island residents, their visitors, or people travelling for business that are using these flights, so I would say most are well aware of the situation.

[virginblue]

Originally Posted by DC3 Dave

If you were a customer not knowing nor caring about franchise arrangements, how would you feel about paying again to board a Flybe branded aircraft?

Under insolvency law, airlines continuing to operate that use the Flybe brand will quickly remove anything "Flybe" from the aircraft etc. That's what Condor did when Thomas Cook went under.

[vlieger]

Originally Posted by Wycombe

At this time of year, in my recent experience, it's mainly island residents, their visitors, or people travelling for business that are using these flights, so I would say most are well aware of the situation.

I'd say islanders are more aware of this kind of thing, also on the Isle of Man. In Southend, however, I think this is less the case.

[DC3 Dave]

Originally Posted by Expressflight

Covid-19 must have escaped your attention.

Of all the major UK & Irish airlines surely Flybe would have one of the least affected.

A couple of weeks ago a friend (with no great interest in aviation) who travels to Glasgow half a dozen times a year was having a moan about the loss of the Loganair SEN-GLA route. I pointed out that he could book with Flybe from May.

He said he wasn’t prepared to because of the uncertainty and all the associated hassle getting his money back if the flights did not happen. I did point out it was possible to book the flights through Virgin Atlantic, but he said he felt more confident flying from STN even if getting there was a lot less convenient.

[flyerguy]

Yes probably least affected in SEN. But for flight to AMS/CDG/MXP which relied on connections, bookings will be down.

[Wycombe]

Of all the major UK & Irish airlines surely Flybe would have one of the least affected.

Or maybe not - only yesterday I had to cancel a SOU-BHD day trip (due in a few weeks) because the client over there doesn't want visitors (or to travel themselves either).

Felt sad that in my small way I was contributing to yesterdays outcome.

[Expressflight]

Originally Posted by asdf1234

I think the truth about Stobart Air and the FlyBe routes was that whilst the airport owned the airline, they used it to inflate the airport pax numbers and route network. Now the airline is owned by a consortium, they are happy to dump the SEN routes as they are deeply unprofitable.

I think there may be some truth in that. Stobart were certainly very keen to establish a wider route network in order to attract interest from other carriers. We shall see if other carriers take up any of the Stobart/Flybe routes, although maybe not until the Covid-19 situation starts to resolve itself.