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Belfast International-2

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Belfast International-2

Old 23rd Jan 2018, 19:46
  #641 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 679
You need to provide more ambiguity instead of writing a statement and not explaining what you mean.

I have taken your statement to imply that I cannot afford to fly an airline other than Ryanair.
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 19:55
  #642 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: liverpool
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Owen. Read slow so you understand. A post was placed to inform that Ryanair are to commence a daily flight from Belfast International to Manchester. You responded "BHD, is not convenient for many though". I pointed out to you that Ryanair do not fly from BHD. Do you get it now.
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 20:42
  #643 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Originally Posted by owenc View Post
Well, if you look at the stats it's obvious that BFS is convenient for quite a bit more people, having 2.3x the passengers flowing through it.
Enforced airport capacity might have something to do with that. Iíd choose BHD over BFS every time if I could fly to where I wanted to go with who I want to fly with, but I canít. I wonder what percentage of your Ď2.3xí would say the same? Iíd bet quite a large percentage.

Have you ever tried getting to Aldergrove from Belfast for a 6-6.30 pm departure during the week, when itís been raining and Belfast is gridlocked?
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 20:52
  #644 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
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Poor show EGAC. Rain does not cause gridlock. Most people choose to fly from BFS which is a fact. Try getting to BHD from north or west Belfast in the the rush hours and BFS is easier. Nearly six million passengers agree. BTW, the capacity restriction was lifted more than two years ago at BHD. To bad no uptake.
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 21:34
  #645 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Severnside
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Interesting development if true Ryanair BFS-MAN. What might look like shifting deckchairs with moving LGW flights to Stansted and starting low frequency Manchester could quickly evolve into a strategy for Ryanair growing at BFS. STN as a London gateway makes infinitely more sense for FR than LGW, just look at their comparative networks from each. After Stansted, Manchester is their largest GB operation, and logically either Birmingham or East Midlands (same owners as STN, MAN ..?) follows on from that. Beyond those main U.K. points, the whole of Europe is their playground. Just needs common sense to prevail on Govt air tax in N Ireland and everything opens up.
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 21:40
  #646 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Belfast
Posts: 192
FR to MAN

Flybe must be very worried by this development and if EMA and BHX are next then it will be a real dogfight between Easy, FR and Flybe with only one loser!
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 21:43
  #647 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Northern Ireland
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It would be great if they'd remove the APD through GB too, so we could avoid the long drive and overnight stay in Dublin when traveling Long Haul.
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 22:03
  #648 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
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Flybe must be very worried by this development and if EMA and BHX are next then it will be a real dogfight between Easy, FR and Flybe with only one loser!
Slightly different market. If Flybe from BHD can hold out against EZY from BFS, I don't see what RYR will do to upset them too much. The losers I expect will be both EZY and RYR who will see what little yield they have eroded further. (Who blinks first !)
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 22:13
  #649 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Severnside
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Posts: 91
Flybe have a niche at BHD but more affordable fares on routes like Manchester and Birmingham would certainly have a general impact. But these are two of the very biggest routes out of DUB and comparatively BFS could offer more seats on them than currently exists.
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 22:37
  #650 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
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Think both EZY and FR can hold a stare longer than flybe.
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 22:43
  #651 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
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I thought FR would have tested LBA or EMA as itís only Flybe who cover this market and cearly a big demand with 4-5 flights a day
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 23:29
  #652 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Originally Posted by BFS watcher View Post
Flybe must be very worried by this development and if EMA and BHX are next then it will be a real dogfight between Easy, FR and Flybe with only one loser!
They have 7 flights a day.....
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Old 23rd Jan 2018, 23:43
  #653 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Yes, so that's seven Q400s a day across which to watch the average yield get utterly trashed by Ryanair offering one a day on BFS-MAN which resets the whole market pricing down to a new level. Probably a worse result for them than the 737-800 appearing on EMA or LBA where it can at least generate some new volume. With EZY already on MAN-BFS, the market is unlikely to grow but the yield is highly likely to decline - so very damaging indeed.
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Old 24th Jan 2018, 00:06
  #654 (permalink)  
 
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Don't see Flybe been impacted much. FR will grow the route and U2 will either contract a little or prehaps lose sum LPL traffic.
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Old 24th Jan 2018, 00:17
  #655 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
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Originally Posted by DC9_10 View Post
Poor show EGAC. Rain does not cause gridlock. Most people choose to fly from BFS which is a fact. Try getting to BHD from north or west Belfast in the the rush hours and BFS is easier. Nearly six million passengers agree.
Yes, more people fly from BFS, but that doesn't mean that they prefer BFS over BHD. The vast majority of people do not care about which airport they fly from, or even which airline they fly with. The reason why more people use BFS is because more destinations are served and more seats are for sale from the airport. If someone wants to fly from Belfast to Bristol, they don't have a choice other than to fly from BFS, because only BFS has a Bristol service. When Aer Lingus moved their LHR service from BFS to BHD, there was no collapse in passenger numbers travelling to Heathrow, just because people could no longer fly from BFS. Aer Lingus passengers simply booked their flights as usual, but instead of going to BFS, they drove to BHD.

Originally Posted by DC9_10 View Post
BTW, the capacity restriction was lifted more than two years ago at BHD. To bad no uptake.
Too bad you're wrong. A public inquiry was launched in 2015, and in January 2017 it was announced that the capacity restriction would be lifted, however the restriction is still in force. The BHD website states' "Seats for sale: airlines may offer no more than 2,000,000 seats for sale on flights from the Airport in any 12 month period."

Originally Posted by Albert Hall View Post
Yes, so that's seven Q400s a day across which to watch the average yield get utterly trashed by Ryanair offering one a day on BFS-MAN which resets the whole market pricing down to a new level. Probably a worse result for them than the 737-800 appearing on EMA or LBA where it can at least generate some new volume. With EZY already on MAN-BFS, the market is unlikely to grow but the yield is highly likely to decline - so very damaging indeed.
Ryanair commencing BFS-MAN will have almost no effect on Flybe or easyJet operations.

Both Flybe and easyJet's schedules cater primarily for the business market;

easyJet operate x2 daily, with 1 morning and 1 evening flight.
Flybe operate x7 daily, with 3 morning, 1 afternoon and 3 evening flights

Based on Ryanair's current BFS-based aircraft schedules, BFS-MAN will be a mid-afternoon service, thus catering primarily for the leisure market. Out of the 9 daily flights between Belfast and Manchester, only 1 Q400 service is operated during this time.

In addition, x1 daily is not a price-setting frequency. Even if all seats were sold at just £9.99, neither Flybe nor easyJet would see any drop in yield. Furthermore, x1 daily is inconvenient for business travellers, as the schedule does not allow same-day returns.

However, if Ryanair were to increase the frequency to x3 daily, then easyJet would be in trouble. Flybe on the other hand would fare batter, given their high frequency service, and their choice of airport. Flybe's yield and passenger numbers remained fairly stable when easyJet commenced BFS-MAN back in 2011, so further diluting BFS-MAN will have little effect on their BHD operations.

Last edited by A320.b744; 24th Jan 2018 at 00:38.
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Old 24th Jan 2018, 00:22
  #656 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Belfast
Age: 37
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Originally Posted by DC9_10 View Post
Poor show EGAC. Rain does not cause gridlock. Most people choose to fly from BFS which is a fact. Try getting to BHD from north or west Belfast in the the rush hours and BFS is easier. Nearly six million passengers agree. BTW, the capacity restriction was lifted more than two years ago at BHD. To bad no uptake.
Stipulations in the Planning Agreement

ē Operating hours: flights may only be scheduled to operate between 06:30 hours and 21:30 hours. Extensions may be granted in exceptional circumstances to facilitate delayed aircraft up to 23:59 hours.

ē Movements cap: GBBCA may only operate 48,000 aircraft movements in any 12 month period.

Seats for sale: airlines may offer no more than 2,000,000 seats for sale on flights from the Airport in any 12 month period.

Direct from City Airports Noise Complaints Page on their website. Are they providing incorrect information? All of the above impact on the passenger number figures because they reduce the appeal of operating there. Only a straight shootout on a level playing field would show a true reflection of demand per location, until then it is all conjecture.

Yes, I have tried getting to BHD from North Belfast in rush hour. My experiences have been much worse getting from East and South Belfast to Aldergrove in comparison.

Rain or any kind of adverse weather doesnít cause gridlock in Belfast? I think itís pretty clear to anyone who commutes to Belfast that it does and that causes problems getting to airports because they have shocking public transport links.

Nearly six million passengers donít agree that BFS is easier to get to. Nearly 6 million passengers agree they can get to fly for cheaper, to more places, more often from Aldergrove so thats where they fly from.
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Old 24th Jan 2018, 02:47
  #657 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Norn Iron
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I’m not seeing how Easyjet would be ‘in trouble’ if Ryanair did MAN 3 times a day. That’s not how LGW played out is it? Easyjet naturally have more interest in LGW than they do in MAN but I can’t see them rolling over either. Once per day, off peak sounds more like an aircraft utilisation project than a serious attempt to muscle in. It will dilute the yield though
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Old 24th Jan 2018, 08:31
  #658 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NI
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What a disappointingly unimaginative addition by Ryanair. Even a service to Shannon or Cork would have been more useful and in keeping with their 'make a market' tradition.
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Old 24th Jan 2018, 08:36
  #659 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Ireland
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A service to Shannon or Cork? On a 737?

Lol
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Old 24th Jan 2018, 08:54
  #660 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Up There
Posts: 98
Don't think MAN for FR from Belfast is illogical at all. They'll want into the largest markets (London, North West, midlands) where lower fares can stimulate more traffic, which already exists but is driving to DUB for savings.


As for trying LBA instead of MAN, more seats to MAN on Airbus / Boeing at keener fares will disperse a good part of a large Leeds market away from flybe's Leeds flights over to Manchester. Yes, there are passengers who absolutely only fly to the east of the Pennines for sound reasons, but there are others who could as easily use Manchester v Leeds, and more, affordable choice to Manchester into an airport which has a more predictable weather history than LBA, not flying on a flybe prop will certainly appeal to those flexible passengers.


As for the argument about seat restrictions at BHD, they never took any heed of that constraint in the past when Ryanair were operating there, so don't see it qualifying as a reason why they are not growing now.
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