Virgin Little Red
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The end of little red :(
Too bad. A little competition never hurts...
Virgin Atlantic scraps Little Red domestic services | Business | The Guardian
Virgin Atlantic scraps Little Red domestic services | Business | The Guardian
Who imposes restrictions on which destinations a slot can be used for, and are they doing it in the best interests of the UK, since we're constantly being told we need new direct flights from LHR to various parts of the world.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Generally ,there are no restrictions on the use of slots and the operator who own the slots will use them in their best commercial interest.
When BA/IAG acquired BMI , the regulator was concerned that this would result in a loss of competition on the routes from Heathrow to ABZ and EDI , along with Nice,Moscow ,Cairo and Riyadh .In order to remedy this situation BA was required to provide slots to any eligible operator who wanted to provide competition on these routes.
Virgin applied to operate ABZ and EDI and was given 9 slot pairs to launch these routes. In order to prevent an operator using this as a way of gaining slots for its own purposes i.e. Flying the routes for a short period and then switching their use, rules were put in place which said in the event the operator stopped ABZ and EDI , the slots could only be used for the routes which lost competition when BMI disappeared or they would be returned to BA who could use them as they wish.
If Virgin had decided to continue the routes for 3 years ,they could then be used for any European services but not Longhaul .Virgin obviously decided not to do this !
When BA/IAG acquired BMI , the regulator was concerned that this would result in a loss of competition on the routes from Heathrow to ABZ and EDI , along with Nice,Moscow ,Cairo and Riyadh .In order to remedy this situation BA was required to provide slots to any eligible operator who wanted to provide competition on these routes.
Virgin applied to operate ABZ and EDI and was given 9 slot pairs to launch these routes. In order to prevent an operator using this as a way of gaining slots for its own purposes i.e. Flying the routes for a short period and then switching their use, rules were put in place which said in the event the operator stopped ABZ and EDI , the slots could only be used for the routes which lost competition when BMI disappeared or they would be returned to BA who could use them as they wish.
If Virgin had decided to continue the routes for 3 years ,they could then be used for any European services but not Longhaul .Virgin obviously decided not to do this !
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Virgin applied to operate ABZ and EDI and was given 9 slot pairs to launch these routes. In order to prevent an operator using this as a way of gaining slots for its own purposes i.e. Flying the routes for a short period and then switching their use, rules were put in place which said in the event the operator stopped ABZ and EDI , the slots could only be used for the routes which lost competition when BMI disappeared or they would be returned to BA who could use them as they wish.
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Farirdealfrank is right. 12 slot pairs were on offer, a minimum of 7 of which had to be used on EDI or ABZ. The remaining 5 could be used on any of the remedy routes, including EDI and ABZ.
So Branson's whinging that he didn't get enough slots is a little misleading. He presumably chose not to take the full number on offer.
So Branson's whinging that he didn't get enough slots is a little misleading. He presumably chose not to take the full number on offer.
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Branson has done nothing but whinge in respect of VA. But then, it's the same with lots of his other businesses. Claims to be against the status quo, while always wishing to be part of the establishment.
Virgin is a "me too" merchant with most of their enterprises. Buying up large shares of failing existing businesses with small amounts of cash in return for plastering the Virgin name all over it, while getting the lion's share of the cash (risk) from other investors. Look at Virgin Money and Virgin Media as two examples.
Both bought on the cheap after someone else had done all the really hard work to set them up, and then after making nominal investment, selling (or soon to be sold) for large dollops of dosh.
And as for the idea of running regional services from UK airports to Heathrow. Who already does that far more successfully than "Little Red?" The old foe British Airways.
Take a look at VA's route map. Which airline serviced most of the airports VA chose to fly to? British Airways.
But of course, it's far easier to try and mop up some of the middle age twits in denim on an existing well served route than do something really original like flying to a new destination and building the loyalty of your passengers and your business. This IMO, sums up the whole VA approach to the airline business. Perhaps their new investor will finally bring some commercial reality to the operations, with truly innovative service and destinations.
Virgin is a "me too" merchant with most of their enterprises. Buying up large shares of failing existing businesses with small amounts of cash in return for plastering the Virgin name all over it, while getting the lion's share of the cash (risk) from other investors. Look at Virgin Money and Virgin Media as two examples.
Both bought on the cheap after someone else had done all the really hard work to set them up, and then after making nominal investment, selling (or soon to be sold) for large dollops of dosh.
And as for the idea of running regional services from UK airports to Heathrow. Who already does that far more successfully than "Little Red?" The old foe British Airways.
Take a look at VA's route map. Which airline serviced most of the airports VA chose to fly to? British Airways.
But of course, it's far easier to try and mop up some of the middle age twits in denim on an existing well served route than do something really original like flying to a new destination and building the loyalty of your passengers and your business. This IMO, sums up the whole VA approach to the airline business. Perhaps their new investor will finally bring some commercial reality to the operations, with truly innovative service and destinations.
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Theoretical questions
If Virgin had decided to continue the routes for 3 years ,they could then be used for any European services but not Longhaul .Virgin obviously decided not to do this !
Would the slots always be "remedy" or would VS have obtained "grandfather rights" eventually?
If not, would VS ever have been allowed to lease them out to another carrier, or even, bizarrely, back to BA?
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Obviously this is theoretical, but had VS carried on with domestic for 3 years, would the restriction of use for European routes only have been perpetual?
Would the slots always be "remedy" or would VS have obtained "grandfather rights" eventually?
If not, would VS ever have been allowed to lease them out to another carrier, or even, bizarrely, back to BA?
Would the slots always be "remedy" or would VS have obtained "grandfather rights" eventually?
If not, would VS ever have been allowed to lease them out to another carrier, or even, bizarrely, back to BA?
As a general rule, the slots obtained by a prospective entrant must be operated on the
city pair(s) for which they have been requested from IAG and cannot be used on
another city pair unless the prospective entrant has operated them during at least six
full consecutive IATA seasons ("the Utilisation Period").272 The prospective entrant
would be deemed to have grandfathering rights for the slots once appropriate use of
the slots has been made on the city pairs at issue, for the Utilisation Period. Once the
Utilisation Period has elapsed, the prospective entrant would be entitled to use the
slots obtained on the basis of the Commitments exclusively to operate services on any
route connecting London with any other part of Europe (including Aberdeen and
Edinburgh), or on London-Moscow, London-Cairo and London-Riyadh.
city pair(s) for which they have been requested from IAG and cannot be used on
another city pair unless the prospective entrant has operated them during at least six
full consecutive IATA seasons ("the Utilisation Period").272 The prospective entrant
would be deemed to have grandfathering rights for the slots once appropriate use of
the slots has been made on the city pairs at issue, for the Utilisation Period. Once the
Utilisation Period has elapsed, the prospective entrant would be entitled to use the
slots obtained on the basis of the Commitments exclusively to operate services on any
route connecting London with any other part of Europe (including Aberdeen and
Edinburgh), or on London-Moscow, London-Cairo and London-Riyadh.
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My emphasis above. Yes, they would have been grandfathered, but it appears that their use would still have been limited in perpetuity.
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Do you think old beardy might be looking to buy a cricket box soon ? 3 years to go....
Challenge accepted Willie Walsh - Virgin.com
Challenge accepted Willie Walsh - Virgin.com
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Do you think old beardy might be looking to buy a cricket box soon ? 3 years to go....
Challenge accepted Willie Walsh - Virgin.com
Challenge accepted Willie Walsh - Virgin.com
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Just received an e-mail from the Flying Club to say cost of redeeming points for return London trip reduced from 7,500 to 5,000 miles (plus taxes) and points earned on Little Red services increasing from 1,500 to 2,000 (before applying any multiples for being Silver member or higher).
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I've just been contacted by an agency offering the opportunity to fly for Air Lingus at LHR (Little Red) starting early next year with contract end date quoted as end of October 2015 minimum. Either pilots are already leaving in their droves (in which case I would've thought that EI simply subbed in their own pilots until the operation was wound down) or things are predicted to remain steady or even dare I say it, improve.
Someone mentioned after 3 years the slots are no longer route constrained. Could this be a sign that Little Red will soon be able to offer something very different? Routes that might be able to return loads of >50% whilst denying BA the slots?
Someone mentioned after 3 years the slots are no longer route constrained. Could this be a sign that Little Red will soon be able to offer something very different? Routes that might be able to return loads of >50% whilst denying BA the slots?