Virgin Little Red

[Harry O]

Branson announces the end of Little Red.

Feel sorry for the crews, and a bit of competition always helps the public.

Sir Richard Branson's Virgin Atlantic ends Little Red domestic service - Telegraph

[Skyjob]

When the announcement of Little Red came, everyone could already expect this to happen some day in not too far a future.

Shame for the crews and service, albeit it only served its purpose to achieve the greater good of VA.

[akerosid]

Well, Little Red finally meets the wolf ... and loses.

"Sir Richard, what big teeth you have" ...

Pity to see this operation ended, but glad to know that the crews will have jobs at the end of it. Good that they have plenty of notice as well; it's not as if the operation ends on Wednesday. EI will have plenty of time to prepare to take back the two A320s it operated, maybe end leases on other ones it currently operates, so at least everyone has plenty of lead in time.

Can't help thinking that with different routes and more aggressive marketing, things might have worked out differently.

One more aircraft/colour scheme combinations we won't get to see in UK skies anymore: Photo: EI-DEI (CN: 2374) Virgin Atlantic Airways (Aer Lingus) Airbus A320-214 by John Fitzpatrick Photoid: 7652450 - JetPhotos.Net

Does the end date have any ramifications as far as slot usage is concerned; I know some of the Little Red slots can only be used for domestic flights, but some can be used for long haul after a certain period of time. Can someone please clarify?

[T250]

EI will have plenty of time to prepare to take back the two A320s it operated

EI actually operates 4 wet leased aircraft for the Little Red operation, DEI, DEO, EZV and EZW.

[EI-A330-300]

They had an A320 for sale but kept it when this deal happened. DEI/O will likely stay and EZV/W were leased when the deal happened. I suspect its this reason why ABZ/EDI are staying longer than MAN as it was a 2 year lease and EI are not prepared to take a hit.

[Fairdealfrank]

Can't help thinking that with different routes and more aggressive marketing, things might have worked out differently.

Yes, calling it "Virgin Atlantic" rather than the ridiculous "Little Red" may have helped. Am no marketing expert, but why not use a well-known and instantly recognisable brand?

Is this the DL tail wagging the VS dog?

[EI-BUD]

EI actually operates 4 wet leased aircraft for the Little Red operation, DEI, DEO, EZV and EZW.

T250, yes it is 4 A320's. I think what Akerosid meant is there are 2 Aer Lingus 320's from EI's fleet, and two additional ones leased for the Virgin contract. 4 in all.

[BasilBush]

The slots revert to IAG (other than the MAN slots which always belonged to VS) unless another airline wants to operate the remedy routes. There never was any ability to use the slots for long haul (other than Moscow, Riyadh & Cairo) even if VS had used them on the remedy routes for the 3year minimum period.

[wallp]

Are IAG required to use the slots on these same routes once they're returned to them or are they free to reallocate them to other routes?

[BasilBush]

IAG can use the returned slots as they see fit. The restrictions only applied to the new entrant, ie VS. There would be no point in forcing IAG to use the slots only on the remedy routes, which were originally selected as those routes on which IAG had a monopoly following its acquisition of BMI. And in any event such a restriction could easily by circumvented by IAG, eg by BA reallocating its own slots currently used on the remedy routes.

[wallp]

In that case a win/win for IAG. They've seen off a competitor & now have additional slots to expand with

[ETOPS]

but glad to know that the crews will have jobs at the end of it

Some of the cabin crew did this job because it doesn't involve long periods away from home - childcare etc. Thus the offer of VS longhaul wouldn't actually help.

[Flightrider]

No reason EI couldn't retain the A320s and apply for the remedy slots themselves. I can't see why they would, as it's unlikely to make any money doing so, but it theoretically could.

[vctenderness]

Well whoed a thought it! The bearded one was going to change air travel in the UK for ever. BA would be seen off. The whole industry would sit up and take notice......NOT

[racedo]

Wondered from the start what was the Unique Selling Point on this that would persuade people to use it.
I just didn't see one which is not a shock as this proves there was never one.

[LadyL2013]

I think it was always going to be difficult for Virgin to break into that market. Being (mainly) more of a leisure airline it wouldn't have as many customers with airmiles and status than perhaps BA. As BA have been operating the domestics for years, I would hazard a guess that the business traveller is far more likely to have racked up loyalty with BA and would therefore have more of an incentive to continue to use BA.

Virgin would effectively have to rely on people who don't want to fly LoCo but also don't want to fly BA or people who want to fly Virgin domestically because they enjoyed the experience long haul. Now add to that people who want the cheapest option in LoCo and you have a very small customer pool.

Maybe if they had tried Little Red as a budget airline they would have had more success? But then that would go against the ethos.

[davidjohnson6]

Slightly harsh to say there was no USP. Faced with a likely substantial loss of passenger feed from bmi (or sharing customer info with the arch rival) and not having a strong backer in the shape of Delta 2 years ago, Virgin had to at least try something. The alternative would have been their Heathrow ops having to survive entirely on London point-to-point.

Didn't work out (yes, I know the different terminals didn't help) but one shouldn't be too negative for VS at least giving it a shot.

[Armodeen]

Some of the cabin crew did this job because it doesn't involve long periods away from home - childcare etc. Thus the offer of VS longhaul wouldn't actually help.

Exactly. A couple of crew told me just that whilst chatting one flight. It's a shame for them as there was always an excellent atmosphere on board.

[Fairdealfrank]

Well whoed a thought it! The bearded one was going to change air travel in the UK for ever. BA would be seen off. The whole industry would sit up and take notice......NOT

Maybe he should have done a deal with Michael Bishop all those years ago and/or bought into BD later on, when it still had 14% of the LHR slots. Unfortunately, egos and personality-conflicts are said to have got in the way. Pathetic if true.

I think it was always going to be difficult for Virgin to break into that market. Being (mainly) more of a leisure airline it wouldn't have as many customers with airmiles and status than perhaps BA. As BA have been operating the domestics for years, I would hazard a guess that the business traveller is far more likely to have racked up loyalty with BA and would therefore have more of an incentive to continue to use BA.

Virgin would effectively have to rely on people who don't want to fly LoCo but also don't want to fly BA or people who want to fly Virgin domestically because they enjoyed the experience long haul. Now add to that people who want the cheapest option in LoCo and you have a very small customer pool.

BD was providing domestic and near-abroad connections at LHR to Star Alliance carriers as well as to VS. BD Diamond Club and the various star alliance frequent flier schemes were interchangable.

However, we are where we are, and hindsight is a wonderful thing. That said, it was one hell of a lost opportunity.

[PAXboy]

Maybe, if Sir Michael had talked and collaborated with Sir Richard 20 years ago? (or vice versa)

After this amount of time, the UK domestic market is fully mature and all the fat has been squeezed with AirUk, GO, BMI, Manx (+ others) all gone or plucked - there was no space for a new entrant. It was waaaay too late. Very sad. Two strong leaders who let the ball drop through their hands into the gaping jaws of their mutual enemy.

I sit to be corrected ...