SOUTHEND 5
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Leeds Approach
If you think that there should only be one airport in Yorkshire, then I actually think DSA should be the primary airport for Yorkshire, it's got a 3,000m runway, a new motorway spur which opens in less than a year meaning direct uncontested access to the UK's main motorway, a train track that runs less then 1.5 miles from the airport that just needs a platform, and a major national rail gateway 3 miles away (Doncaster is a major junction and on the London - Scotland line). It's not on a hill, doesn't suffer crosswinds, is rarely fogged out, has a ton of room for expansion and a CAT III ILS.
The downside for DSA is that Leeds has a stronger economy than sheffield, and that is what supports a lot of the business traffic, but according to Google, DSA is only 55 mins away by road and a relatively congestion free journey (Can take longer to get to LBA sometimes) then I don't see that as a major problem and when the M18 link road opens that will shave 15-20 mins off the journey time meaning it is likely just as quick ...
The only reason it is not the primary airport is that Leeds was open before hand, but as much as you won't like this Leeds Approach, LBA is in the wrong place and a nightmare airport
If you think that there should only be one airport in Yorkshire, then I actually think DSA should be the primary airport for Yorkshire, it's got a 3,000m runway, a new motorway spur which opens in less than a year meaning direct uncontested access to the UK's main motorway, a train track that runs less then 1.5 miles from the airport that just needs a platform, and a major national rail gateway 3 miles away (Doncaster is a major junction and on the London - Scotland line). It's not on a hill, doesn't suffer crosswinds, is rarely fogged out, has a ton of room for expansion and a CAT III ILS.
The downside for DSA is that Leeds has a stronger economy than sheffield, and that is what supports a lot of the business traffic, but according to Google, DSA is only 55 mins away by road and a relatively congestion free journey (Can take longer to get to LBA sometimes) then I don't see that as a major problem and when the M18 link road opens that will shave 15-20 mins off the journey time meaning it is likely just as quick ...
The only reason it is not the primary airport is that Leeds was open before hand, but as much as you won't like this Leeds Approach, LBA is in the wrong place and a nightmare airport
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Sure can....
https://www.change.org/p/balfour-bea...port/u/9497106
Cyrano - Not sure your point - What use is 100,000 extra pax if that is losing you money. In 2006 BLK had near 600,000 pax a year but was losing money - I am convinced BB introduced the ADF, just to get rid of FR. BLK were not in a position to make "ancillary revenue" to make up for FRs scrooge tactics. If you are correct that airlines are the piper that calls the tune - Regional airports are doomed to fail.
https://www.change.org/p/balfour-bea...port/u/9497106
Cyrano - Not sure your point - What use is 100,000 extra pax if that is losing you money. In 2006 BLK had near 600,000 pax a year but was losing money - I am convinced BB introduced the ADF, just to get rid of FR. BLK were not in a position to make "ancillary revenue" to make up for FRs scrooge tactics. If you are correct that airlines are the piper that calls the tune - Regional airports are doomed to fail.
I don't think my view that airlines get to call the tune these days, especially in the case of smaller airports, is exactly a controversial one. If your airport is Nice or Malaga or Munich or perhaps a few others you can probably get away with playing (relative) hardball with airlines. However with the likes of Ryanair, a typical secondary airport is not competing just with its neighbours, it's competing with other secondary airports all over Europe. If you don't do a good enough deal for Ryanair, they'll put the capacity into an airport in Lithuania or Portugal or Italy or wherever was even more desperate for passengers.
I agree with you that it's harder for smaller airports to generate decent levels of ancillary revenue than larger ones. And yes, life for small airports in Europe is bloody difficult. I wouldn't say that all regional airports are doomed to fail, but sadly their numbers will continue to shrink.
You may have seen some of the coverage last year of the new EC State Aid Guidelines for the aviation industry, which impose stricter rules on how public funds can be used to subsidise airports and airlines. One might think that clear rules are a good thing (given that the previous rules were vague and not consistently enforced, and that Ryanair in particular drove a coach and horses through them on innumerable occasions). In fact a large group of smaller airports (many in France) banded together to oppose the draft guidelines (which were consequently slightly watered down) on the basis that if they couldn't rely on continuing subventions from their local authorities, they had no hope of survival.
To put it in the terms of your rhetorical question, these airports could get the 100,000 extra pax, but that would still be losing them money. In the case of the secondary French airports, they rely on support from public funds on the basis that most of the extra pax are inbound tourists who are coming to spend money in the region. It's harder to make that case for a lot of UK airports (including Blackpool) where most pax would be outbound.
C.
People - could I very gently suggest we move general discussion about smaller airports to a separate thread ? It's a significant topic in its own right, and worthy of its own thread, along with the associated visibility that comes with being a separate thread.
Join Date: May 2007
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Leeds Approach
If you think that there should only be one airport in Yorkshire, then I actually think DSA should be the primary airport for Yorkshire, it's got a 3,000m runway, a new motorway spur which opens in less than a year meaning direct uncontested access to the UK's main motorway, a train track that runs less then 1.5 miles from the airport that just needs a platform, and a major national rail gateway 3 miles away (Doncaster is a major junction and on the London - Scotland line). It's not on a hill, doesn't suffer crosswinds, is rarely fogged out, has a ton of room for expansion and a CAT III ILS.
The downside for DSA is that Leeds has a stronger economy than sheffield, and that is what supports a lot of the business traffic, but according to Google, DSA is only 55 mins away by road and a relatively congestion free journey (Can take longer to get to LBA sometimes) then I don't see that as a major problem and when the M18 link road opens that will shave 15-20 mins off the journey time meaning it is likely just as quick ...
The only reason it is not the primary airport is that Leeds was open before hand, but as much as you won't like this Leeds Approach, LBA is in the wrong place and a nightmare airport
If you think that there should only be one airport in Yorkshire, then I actually think DSA should be the primary airport for Yorkshire, it's got a 3,000m runway, a new motorway spur which opens in less than a year meaning direct uncontested access to the UK's main motorway, a train track that runs less then 1.5 miles from the airport that just needs a platform, and a major national rail gateway 3 miles away (Doncaster is a major junction and on the London - Scotland line). It's not on a hill, doesn't suffer crosswinds, is rarely fogged out, has a ton of room for expansion and a CAT III ILS.
The downside for DSA is that Leeds has a stronger economy than sheffield, and that is what supports a lot of the business traffic, but according to Google, DSA is only 55 mins away by road and a relatively congestion free journey (Can take longer to get to LBA sometimes) then I don't see that as a major problem and when the M18 link road opens that will shave 15-20 mins off the journey time meaning it is likely just as quick ...
The only reason it is not the primary airport is that Leeds was open before hand, but as much as you won't like this Leeds Approach, LBA is in the wrong place and a nightmare airport
Join Date: Jul 2002
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October 2014
Southend Airport could take off for Stobart Group with 50 airlines circling | City A.M.
I wonder what happened to the 50 airlines?
Southend Airport could take off for Stobart Group with 50 airlines circling | City A.M.
I wonder what happened to the 50 airlines?
Newly restructured Stobart Group is in talks with up to 50 airlines to begin flying out of the firms Southend airport, according to chief executive Andrew Tinkler.
While he declined to name any of the airlines in discussion with Stobart, Tinkler stated that the firm was speaking to all the airlines across Europe, adding: All of those airlines would potentially fly through Southend.
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Can you really trust what Tinkler says? Just another hyped up press release trying to attract shareholders. Not doubt they are talking to a few airlines but 50 is just a stupid number and anyone with half a brain can see through that article for what it is.
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Airports are constantly "in talks" with airlines and the airlines tend to encourage dialogue on the offchance that an interesting route(s) may appear from the mountain of never-going-to-happen wishlists that some of the smaller airports have. There's a long road from talking to airlines to getting a route off the ground unless the airport is throwing a bucket of cash at the route in question! In that case, the route tends to last as long as the airport is prepared to support it, unless both sides are very lucky!
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More Operators
I will just keep this short and open it all for comment.
We are now approaching S15 with no new operators. Other than a paper carrier that which is very unlikely (but not definitely) to become a reality. So, as far as for this year no new carriers for tourist routes will happen, nor is it likely Ezy will add any routes.
So 2016 must be the earliest to see a sign of new entrants. In the meantime pax numbers are likely to drop. Especially with the yet to be announced DUB cancellation.
I am at a total loss as to how this issue is being so mishandled by the airport management. A wonderful opportunity is being wasted in a spectacular fashion.
I will now just leave things to continue festering, apologies to anyone who takes issue with my personal views.
We are now approaching S15 with no new operators. Other than a paper carrier that which is very unlikely (but not definitely) to become a reality. So, as far as for this year no new carriers for tourist routes will happen, nor is it likely Ezy will add any routes.
So 2016 must be the earliest to see a sign of new entrants. In the meantime pax numbers are likely to drop. Especially with the yet to be announced DUB cancellation.
I am at a total loss as to how this issue is being so mishandled by the airport management. A wonderful opportunity is being wasted in a spectacular fashion.
I will now just leave things to continue festering, apologies to anyone who takes issue with my personal views.
Join Date: Oct 2011
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Notice Flybe have a gap between 27 March-13 April with not DUB flights available. When they do resume its back to the 300-400+ return fares.
Notice EI have also closed reservations on their website from end of the month.
Notice EI have also closed reservations on their website from end of the month.
Join Date: Mar 2012
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Trailer adverts
Just a quick one on the trailer ads, they have been on the trailers for a few years now and are part of a pool of some 2000+ trailers that are used across several customer contracts hence why they are seen all over the country and sometimes mainland Europe.
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I am at a total loss as to how this issue is being so mishandled by the airport management. A wonderful opportunity is being wasted in a spectacular fashion.
Maybe airlines see scheduled services as too risky from Southend but regular inbound charter flights where the passengers are picked up by coaches may be the way forward in the short term but is there such a thing here in the UK anymore apart from one offs?
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Ring-ring ring-ring
'hello is that BA, its southend international here...
click
Ring-ring ring-ring
'hello is that Norweigen Airlines, its southend international here...
click
Ring-ring ring-ring
'hello is that Ryanair, its southend international here...
click
Ring-ring ring-ring
'hello is that Alitalia, its southend international here...
click
Wow, I'm in talks with four more airlines.
As they say, talk is cheap...
'hello is that BA, its southend international here...
click
Ring-ring ring-ring
'hello is that Norweigen Airlines, its southend international here...
click
Ring-ring ring-ring
'hello is that Ryanair, its southend international here...
click
Ring-ring ring-ring
'hello is that Alitalia, its southend international here...
click
Wow, I'm in talks with four more airlines.
As they say, talk is cheap...
What have the Roman's ever done for us?
An airport with no services (ok, maybe a seasonal weekly Jersey?) and dated/non-existent facilities gets a new operator who spends £100M on building a new terminal, new train station etc, attracts EasyJet and uses their own airline to operate some near continent cities to boost the range of destinations and build up passenger numbers - something's could be done better, but you can't say they haven't given it a go
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Exactly, but there is a lot of frustration here and not much patience after the euphoria when the new Southend first opened and easyjet started operations.
I remember reading the posts here where some people could see no limit to the number of new routes that could and would be started but after the reality check now it is all the managers fault.
It is still early days and new airlines will be hard to find so we all have to play the waiting game.
I remember reading the posts here where some people could see no limit to the number of new routes that could and would be started but after the reality check now it is all the managers fault.
It is still early days and new airlines will be hard to find so we all have to play the waiting game.
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So - I think everyone is expecting too much.
I don't think EasyJet will pull out of Southend though the presence may vary.
There is scope for developing IT services via either Thomson Or Thomas Cook, probably with third party operators- is there any of this his summer (can't remember). And smaller markets too - Lakes and Mountains for seniors.
As a matter of interest could Southend sustain Dublin ops using a 738- I think it could work for Ryan twice daily though it would dilute their offering down the road. Those canny guys at MAG have got hold of Stan's Dead.
Stobart should concentrate on what they are good at - it isn't using turboprops to generate non-existent markets. If they have consciences they must be upset at seeing VLM snatch their market from Waterford.
I don't think EasyJet will pull out of Southend though the presence may vary.
There is scope for developing IT services via either Thomson Or Thomas Cook, probably with third party operators- is there any of this his summer (can't remember). And smaller markets too - Lakes and Mountains for seniors.
As a matter of interest could Southend sustain Dublin ops using a 738- I think it could work for Ryan twice daily though it would dilute their offering down the road. Those canny guys at MAG have got hold of Stan's Dead.
Stobart should concentrate on what they are good at - it isn't using turboprops to generate non-existent markets. If they have consciences they must be upset at seeing VLM snatch their market from Waterford.
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Firstly I cannot see FR ever operating DUB-SEN mainly because the 737-800 would be pax restricted (not really FR's model which is as many bums on seats as possible). I think they recently added more DUB flights from STN anyway.
As for WAT, hate to say it but LTN is where the route belongs and I hope that it will return to the popular route it once was, especially for WAT who have had a torrid time of late.
In my honest opinion, EZY is the most likely source of significant growth in the coming years. They obviously want to make the most out of the 3 aircraft base at SEN, hence adding Menorca to fill a couple of gaps per week, and adding the A320 on several routes is also a positive signal from them.
I would like to make a comparison with SEN to DSA. Between 2005 (when it opened) and 2007 it saw massive increase in pax and broke the 1 million mark, ever since the numbers had slowly started to decrease down to around 700,000 now where it has plateaued slightly. This year however it is seeing new routes come in from EIR to DUB, and additional WizzAir routes, who now have a healthy looking network there.
What I'm trying to show here is that DSA was once a new airport just like SEN is now, and it is only now starting to see growth once again but it has taken almost 8 years for it to happen since its peak in 2007. Not saying SEN will see as bigger drop in pax as DSA or that growth is 8 years away but I want to reiterate what others have said, that it takes time to negotiate deals with airlines, and time to gain awareness and prove yourself as a popular choice of departure/arrival for travellers.
As for WAT, hate to say it but LTN is where the route belongs and I hope that it will return to the popular route it once was, especially for WAT who have had a torrid time of late.
In my honest opinion, EZY is the most likely source of significant growth in the coming years. They obviously want to make the most out of the 3 aircraft base at SEN, hence adding Menorca to fill a couple of gaps per week, and adding the A320 on several routes is also a positive signal from them.
I would like to make a comparison with SEN to DSA. Between 2005 (when it opened) and 2007 it saw massive increase in pax and broke the 1 million mark, ever since the numbers had slowly started to decrease down to around 700,000 now where it has plateaued slightly. This year however it is seeing new routes come in from EIR to DUB, and additional WizzAir routes, who now have a healthy looking network there.
What I'm trying to show here is that DSA was once a new airport just like SEN is now, and it is only now starting to see growth once again but it has taken almost 8 years for it to happen since its peak in 2007. Not saying SEN will see as bigger drop in pax as DSA or that growth is 8 years away but I want to reiterate what others have said, that it takes time to negotiate deals with airlines, and time to gain awareness and prove yourself as a popular choice of departure/arrival for travellers.
Last edited by tws123; 17th Mar 2015 at 00:34.