Walsh gets his Vueling
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Go on tell us
Carbon Brakes
You are quick to deride posters on here for their comments, but so far have failed to educate the rest of us on the glorious achievements of Spanish aviation, other than one passing reference to Spantax, of all people, that ran clapped out crap and collapsed like a pack of cards.
Please tell us what we have missed, dont bother about it being a lengthy post, we will take our time reading it....Looking forward to it
You are quick to deride posters on here for their comments, but so far have failed to educate the rest of us on the glorious achievements of Spanish aviation, other than one passing reference to Spantax, of all people, that ran clapped out crap and collapsed like a pack of cards.
Please tell us what we have missed, dont bother about it being a lengthy post, we will take our time reading it....Looking forward to it
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History by a briton
STM Member
"Not very glorious if you ask me".
It is obvious that nobody is going to ask you about such matter, as it is also obvious you are an ignorant and, most likely, british.
"Not very glorious if you ask me".
It is obvious that nobody is going to ask you about such matter, as it is also obvious you are an ignorant and, most likely, british.
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Get rid of the brits and Iberia will rise numbers again, itīs 17th century again, brits pirates attacking spanish ships abroad to get the gold.
Now we have vueling being sold by???? one ex-minister (president) and one CEO who has worked for the brits for quite a time before comming to Vueling.
Problem is spanish unions and Iberia workers donīt have the guts to go on a real strike, burnt a couple 0f 320īs, collapse the system and show the brits not to **** around with them.
But this will not happens as the country is like it is, 100% politically corrupted, sadly itīs becomed another banana republic.
Now we have vueling being sold by???? one ex-minister (president) and one CEO who has worked for the brits for quite a time before comming to Vueling.
Problem is spanish unions and Iberia workers donīt have the guts to go on a real strike, burnt a couple 0f 320īs, collapse the system and show the brits not to **** around with them.
But this will not happens as the country is like it is, 100% politically corrupted, sadly itīs becomed another banana republic.
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This is the worst thread I've seen on PPRuNe for a long time. Just one long slagging match and no intellectual debate. Where are the moderators?
The Spanish have contributed to Airbus Military in Spain and I've worked with them and vouch for their quality work. If you look at the Voyager PFI you'll notice that AIBM in Getafe are bringing back on track an ailing conversion program, which a UK company fell behind on.
Spantax might have had it's problems but the planes I flew on weren't as bad as some of the rubbish I've flown on within the USA recently. I recently managed 3 out of 5 seriously delayed flights for technical reasons with a mailine US operator. The interiors were well past their prime also. Spain has successful airlines in Air Europa and Vueling, so as a country they have the ability to operate well run airlines.
IAG (not BA) is only doing what the Spanish Government didn't have the balls to do years ago, so don't blame them. It could have been any number of private airlines who would do the hard job of turning IB around.
As for this:-
..... so that approach will really create a world-class and profitable Iberia with a sustainable future? Here lies the fundamental problem; let's show the management we mean business rather than think about the long-term consequences.
The medicine is painful but Vueling short-haul + a long-haul focused IB supported by IAG is probably the best long-term solutions.
Now what about some speculation. What would happen if IAG acquired TAP? What about a combined Spain/Portugal Vueling based short-haul operation with a co-ordinated IB long-haul network from the whole of the Iberian Peninsula? Viable/Good/Bad?
The Spanish have contributed to Airbus Military in Spain and I've worked with them and vouch for their quality work. If you look at the Voyager PFI you'll notice that AIBM in Getafe are bringing back on track an ailing conversion program, which a UK company fell behind on.
Spantax might have had it's problems but the planes I flew on weren't as bad as some of the rubbish I've flown on within the USA recently. I recently managed 3 out of 5 seriously delayed flights for technical reasons with a mailine US operator. The interiors were well past their prime also. Spain has successful airlines in Air Europa and Vueling, so as a country they have the ability to operate well run airlines.
IAG (not BA) is only doing what the Spanish Government didn't have the balls to do years ago, so don't blame them. It could have been any number of private airlines who would do the hard job of turning IB around.
As for this:-
Problem is spanish unions and Iberia workers donīt have the guts to go on a real strike, burnt a couple 0f 320īs, collapse the system and show the brits not to **** around with them
The medicine is painful but Vueling short-haul + a long-haul focused IB supported by IAG is probably the best long-term solutions.
Now what about some speculation. What would happen if IAG acquired TAP? What about a combined Spain/Portugal Vueling based short-haul operation with a co-ordinated IB long-haul network from the whole of the Iberian Peninsula? Viable/Good/Bad?
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For what it's worth I fly regularly on Vueling and they have a very good product.
The cabin staff are invariably polite and time keeping (that I have experienced) has been excellent.
The attention to safety by the cabin crew would put many other companies to shame.
Yes the legroom is a bit tight but so it is on many other carriers and at least I am flying on mostly new aircraft and I get frequent flyer miles (Puntos).
It seems a thoroughly decent set up.
The cabin staff are invariably polite and time keeping (that I have experienced) has been excellent.
The attention to safety by the cabin crew would put many other companies to shame.
Yes the legroom is a bit tight but so it is on many other carriers and at least I am flying on mostly new aircraft and I get frequent flyer miles (Puntos).
It seems a thoroughly decent set up.
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Iberia has been a disgrace and an embarrassment to the Spanish nation for many years. It needs to get rid of the old management style and then change the attitude that it is run for the convenience and benefit of its employees and their friends and families. That is the underlying problem.
It needs to invest money in staff training, particularly the ground staff at Madrid Barajas.
With the near monopolies it has on many routes, and the loyalty of the Spanish to their own airlines (mainly because so many Spanish are monoglots) it has the potential to be a good profitable airline. Realising that potential will be a titanic struggle.
It needs to invest money in staff training, particularly the ground staff at Madrid Barajas.
With the near monopolies it has on many routes, and the loyalty of the Spanish to their own airlines (mainly because so many Spanish are monoglots) it has the potential to be a good profitable airline. Realising that potential will be a titanic struggle.
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Iberia needs a deep transformation, thatīs for sure. But probably the first step is to get back the cash money from 12 years of profit, and start renewing the fleet. Besides that, itīs very important to improve their customer relation manegement. But initially with few changes Iberia could return to positive figures in a short period.
Iberia has suffered a lot from very bad management and also political influention. From the early begining many of the wrong decision Iberia has taken, went from the goverment, the development ministry and dark interestes. Just an example the awful decision of renew the short/medium range fleet with MD instead of Boeing (it was a political decision, contrary to the pilots, marketing and management in order to get a better price in the buy of F/A 18 fighters)
As an spaniard, itīs pretty difficult to understand how IB states that the Montevideo route is not profitable and AF has take the gap and make it profitable. Add also the HAV, LAX, SDQ, FOR,.... and of course many of the european routes that add passangers to the long-haul ops.
And yes, you are right we do have half a dozen of useless airports ( I will say a Dozen) but that is shamefully decision that took our goverment looking for benefits in their own pockets instead of the spanish people. One thing that we are full responsible is to vote again and again the same the two political party.
Just my 2 cents
Iberia has suffered a lot from very bad management and also political influention. From the early begining many of the wrong decision Iberia has taken, went from the goverment, the development ministry and dark interestes. Just an example the awful decision of renew the short/medium range fleet with MD instead of Boeing (it was a political decision, contrary to the pilots, marketing and management in order to get a better price in the buy of F/A 18 fighters)
As an spaniard, itīs pretty difficult to understand how IB states that the Montevideo route is not profitable and AF has take the gap and make it profitable. Add also the HAV, LAX, SDQ, FOR,.... and of course many of the european routes that add passangers to the long-haul ops.
And yes, you are right we do have half a dozen of useless airports ( I will say a Dozen) but that is shamefully decision that took our goverment looking for benefits in their own pockets instead of the spanish people. One thing that we are full responsible is to vote again and again the same the two political party.
Just my 2 cents
Last edited by dav_vader; 25th Apr 2013 at 13:58. Reason: Typo
short flights long nights
At one stage Iberia seemed to have a least 2 examples of every airliner built....sort of like an aviation Noah's Arc!,,
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Just an example the awful decision of renew the short/medium range fleet with MD instead of Boeing
They also bought the B757 and got rid of them quickly, so you could question their Boeing purchases as well.
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As far as I know, All the people involved in the renewing of the fleet at that moment choose the B737 because it fitted much better than the MD (Iīm not sayin that MD are worst than the Boeing).
The mix of routes, operating in Barajas (high temperature, altitude) clearly put in advantage the Boeing, but finally, becuase Spain was involved in the purchase of new air force fighters (f/a 18) forced the company to get the MD together with the f/a18 for a better deal. Later on we could also talk aboute the money behind the tape of that decision.
When later on IB decided to renew again the fleet and make it an all airbus fleet, a lot of mistakes were taken. The A340 was not the better choice for the long haul, leaving a lot of cargo because of the high temperatures in summer and the lack of MTOW of the airbus. Once again it was more a political decision than an airline decision. (CASA, and Airbus spain employed a lot of people in spain).
Iberia is also very reactionary to open new routes and that has put iberia on a second position in some markets (Asia). With a little of effort iberia could manage the cargo and the passengers from south America to Asia.
And of course, the Management. Itīs very difficult to cut jobs, reduce salarys, put in shape a company, when your CEO, the hundreds of managing directors, and many others donīt even help or understand that some decisions have to start from the top to the bottom, not always in the bottom and never reach the top.
Itīs more than 10 years since I quitted Iberia but I can see that nothing has been done for a long time, and the merge with BA doesnīt help.
The mix of routes, operating in Barajas (high temperature, altitude) clearly put in advantage the Boeing, but finally, becuase Spain was involved in the purchase of new air force fighters (f/a 18) forced the company to get the MD together with the f/a18 for a better deal. Later on we could also talk aboute the money behind the tape of that decision.
When later on IB decided to renew again the fleet and make it an all airbus fleet, a lot of mistakes were taken. The A340 was not the better choice for the long haul, leaving a lot of cargo because of the high temperatures in summer and the lack of MTOW of the airbus. Once again it was more a political decision than an airline decision. (CASA, and Airbus spain employed a lot of people in spain).
Iberia is also very reactionary to open new routes and that has put iberia on a second position in some markets (Asia). With a little of effort iberia could manage the cargo and the passengers from south America to Asia.
And of course, the Management. Itīs very difficult to cut jobs, reduce salarys, put in shape a company, when your CEO, the hundreds of managing directors, and many others donīt even help or understand that some decisions have to start from the top to the bottom, not always in the bottom and never reach the top.
Itīs more than 10 years since I quitted Iberia but I can see that nothing has been done for a long time, and the merge with BA doesnīt help.
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@Day Vader
It is not a merger with BA it is that the two companies are now owned by the same holding company, which is IAG.
IB has not merged with BA no money can pass from IB to BA.
There is still a lingering misunderstanding in Spain as to how private companies work.
Still now, decades after other countries, an unwillingness to accept a changed world which is not all state monopoly.
IB cannot continue as it is now and must change if it is to survive. It may well come out of this more lean, stronger, and better geared to an international market.
IAG is giving IB a chance to change and that change is needed.
It is not a merger with BA it is that the two companies are now owned by the same holding company, which is IAG.
IB has not merged with BA no money can pass from IB to BA.
There is still a lingering misunderstanding in Spain as to how private companies work.
Still now, decades after other countries, an unwillingness to accept a changed world which is not all state monopoly.
IB cannot continue as it is now and must change if it is to survive. It may well come out of this more lean, stronger, and better geared to an international market.
IAG is giving IB a chance to change and that change is needed.
Last edited by gcal; 25th Apr 2013 at 16:34.
dav-vader:
can you confirm (or even deny) that thanks to the ib pilots "union" ib was "forced" to buy 4-engine (AB)-frames (since the guy and girls did not want to cross the atlantic on "only" 2....
)
(sorry we are talking years ago....but still.)
can you confirm (or even deny) that thanks to the ib pilots "union" ib was "forced" to buy 4-engine (AB)-frames (since the guy and girls did not want to cross the atlantic on "only" 2....
)(sorry we are talking years ago....but still.)