EU Reject Ryanair takeover of Aer Lingus
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Well said Jamie....add to that look at FR's customer rating, despatches, watchdog, which magazine etc then rate it against EI. Take the cheap out of FR and theres little left.
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add to that look at FR's customer rating, despatches, watchdog, which magazine etc then rate it against EI. Take the cheap out of FR and theres little left.
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@mart901
Great. More work for those willing to accept those conditions. Whiners out, those committed and wanting work in. Also, I think a lot of people in this forum talk about the wages of F/O's at Ryanair as if they were something akin to a paperboys wages. I'd happily fly for between 20k-35k.
@Jamie2k9
No. Low-fare airlines will compete and dominate European routes. Big carriers will either adapt that model, or other low-fare airlines will give rise.
I have a degree in politics nearly complete, and have held a pretty prominent position in a political party all for laissez-faire capitalism. I know a thing or two about economics.
Yes, yes they have done a fantastic job. They are what is keeping Prestwick alive. They have created a maintenance base in recent years and have increased their routes this summer by 10%, while other airlines like Wizz have pulled out (as of the end of the month).
Bravo to both of you for attacking me on my place of residence. Have to get to bed now, as tommorrow is Sunday and I need to be up for the crack of dawn to worship our bronze statue of O'Leary in the centre of town
MOL has created the most cabin crew jobs? Really? Or has he created a nice nest egg from training cabin crew, charging them for training, uniform, even visiting the swimming baths for assessment. The average cabin crew lasts 18 months, many are pushed out long before then with never ending targets, upselling, long hours only paid for inflight, no right of union membership....and thats for the ones who make it, many are charged for training etc then told there is no work for them.
@Jamie2k9
So you are suggesting Ryanair will be one of a few carriers left in Europe in the next few years?
Clearly you haven't studied economics
I'm sure you believe that Ryanair have done a fantastic job at you local airport Prestwick.....
Bravo to both of you for attacking me on my place of residence. Have to get to bed now, as tommorrow is Sunday and I need to be up for the crack of dawn to worship our bronze statue of O'Leary in the centre of town
Last edited by CPL593H; 17th Feb 2013 at 00:32.
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Well said Jamie....add to that look at FR's customer rating, despatches, watchdog, which magazine etc then rate it against EI. Take the cheap out of FR and theres little left.
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No. Low-fare airlines will compete and dominate European routes. Big carriers will either adapt that model, or other low-fare airlines will give rise.
. I know a thing or two about economics.
Yes, yes they have done a fantastic job. They are what is keeping Prestwick alive. They have created a maintenance base in recent years and have increased their routes this summer by 10%, while other airlines like Wizz have pulled out (as of the end of the month).
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@Jamie2k9
The poor financial situation of Prestwick Airport is solely the problem of the management of Prestwick Airport, not Ryanair. Ryanair has remained committed to the airport, and if the pulled out of Prestwick they wouldn't be any better off would they? Before Ryanair came to Prestwick, there were animals on the runway. The place was dead. Ryanair has been the best thing to come to Prestwick...since Elvis! 
Nope. Still the same as B.A to me.
I'm sure that PIK financial results may state other wise and the fact that the owners can't wait to sell it. Wizz moving, indeed couldn't begins to guess some of the reasons for that...
Then you would know that Aer Lingus is not a typical carrier like LH, KLM, AF. They have already adapted there business model some time ago which is working very wll for them.
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The poor financial situation of Prestwick Airport is solely the problem of the management of Prestwick Airport, not Ryanair. Ryanair has remained committed to the airport, and if the pulled out of Prestwick they wouldn't be any better off would they? Before Ryanair came to Prestwick, there were animals on the runway. The place was dead. Ryanair has been the best thing to come to Prestwick...since Elvis! 
Nope. Still the same as B.A to me.
Paxing All Over The World
Dear CPL593H,
I, for one, have never denied Mol's brilliance or the jobs he has created. He has got more people travelling. Fine. I just don't wish to travel on his airline again. That is not snobbery but other reasons.
Incidentally, across the Pond the merger of American and US Airways, it is widely acknowledged that airfares will rise. Now, I do of course understand that they are a very different proposition to your MoL, but it is the nature of capitalism that you understand so well - that prices will rise to what the market will stand. If one company (ANY company) own 80% of the market, they get to make the price more than the market does. In the USA, one larger company is going to be able to charge more than two competing ones.
I don't care if it's FR or EI that own 80% of the Irish market - that would not be good.
I, for one, have never denied Mol's brilliance or the jobs he has created. He has got more people travelling. Fine. I just don't wish to travel on his airline again. That is not snobbery but other reasons.
Incidentally, across the Pond the merger of American and US Airways, it is widely acknowledged that airfares will rise. Now, I do of course understand that they are a very different proposition to your MoL, but it is the nature of capitalism that you understand so well - that prices will rise to what the market will stand. If one company (ANY company) own 80% of the market, they get to make the price more than the market does. In the USA, one larger company is going to be able to charge more than two competing ones.
I don't care if it's FR or EI that own 80% of the Irish market - that would not be good.
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I think you all should take notice of tory boys' comments on the airline business. Even at the tender age of 22 ,he obviously knows more about it than everyone else on here. Reminds me of a young William Haig.
Last edited by Zag23; 17th Feb 2013 at 01:50.
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CPL593H
There most certainly is a market for business flights at convient times allowing
for time at meetings, allowing for change of plans/route/days/times/cancelling
without losing their money or having to pay for everything at the gate or on the plane and conduct business in a comfortable seat
Chaps
There most certainly is a market for business flights at convient times allowing
for time at meetings, allowing for change of plans/route/days/times/cancelling
without losing their money or having to pay for everything at the gate or on the plane and conduct business in a comfortable seat
Chaps
Last edited by chaps2011; 17th Feb 2013 at 08:12.
I have already agreed, yes those that need and must travel between Ireland and these cities are going to pay any price that is applied to the ticket. BUT in the process of raising fares, MOL will lose his core flyers, those flying for pleasure. They don't have to fly. They can stay at home and play chess over summer or dig the garden, rather than fork out ridiculous sums of money to visit landmarks in Berlin or Paris. You don't encourage sales by putting up the price. Yes MOL can exploit the business class who have no choice, but he couldn't survive on them alone.
I can't fault Ryanair's logic. Equally you cannot have your cake and eat it too - I see little evidence that Ryanair will protect the 'core flyers' you mention
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Oh the innocence of youth.........
Are you seriously suggesting that there is a future in business class travel on flights of two hours or less?.......
......MOL will lose his core flyers, those flying for pleasure. They don't have to fly. .....
.....Yes MOL can exploit the business class who have no choice, but he couldn't survive on them alone.....
...... Who want's to pay three, four or even five times the price of what Ryanair is offering simply to land at a more central airport ..........
-There is a difference between 'Business Class' and 'business travellers'. If you want to work in aviation you would need to know the difference.
-MoL and FR don't care for their 'core flyers'. They want a credit card and a heartbeat. MoL previously estimated that the expected customer lifespan of an FR passenger was 18-24 months. (Quoted in 1 of the Paul Kilduff books) This of course refers to how long they will travel with FR...
-J Class travel and time sensitive pax are the highest yielding air pax. Y Class/Sale fares are there to cover the fixed costs. Therefore FR could very well survive on just business/time sensitive travellers. MoL himself stated that their best customers are people travelling for funerals.
-4x or 5x an FR fare. Yes who would? Extremely Time Sensitive Business travellers perhaps?
However you will find that most competitor aren't charging this much. (Unless of course you are comparing BA Club Europe to FR prices?) Average FR fare over the last 3 years has been E50-60, average EI fare over the last 3 years E80-100. And for some pax they are happy to pay the extra 30-40, for others they don't want to.
Hence the reason why most posters here are happy to have a choice. Different airlines with different products for different markets andor different customers.
......MOL will lose his core flyers, those flying for pleasure. They don't have to fly. .....
.....Yes MOL can exploit the business class who have no choice, but he couldn't survive on them alone.....
...... Who want's to pay three, four or even five times the price of what Ryanair is offering simply to land at a more central airport ..........
-There is a difference between 'Business Class' and 'business travellers'. If you want to work in aviation you would need to know the difference.
-MoL and FR don't care for their 'core flyers'. They want a credit card and a heartbeat. MoL previously estimated that the expected customer lifespan of an FR passenger was 18-24 months. (Quoted in 1 of the Paul Kilduff books) This of course refers to how long they will travel with FR...
-J Class travel and time sensitive pax are the highest yielding air pax. Y Class/Sale fares are there to cover the fixed costs. Therefore FR could very well survive on just business/time sensitive travellers. MoL himself stated that their best customers are people travelling for funerals.
-4x or 5x an FR fare. Yes who would? Extremely Time Sensitive Business travellers perhaps?
However you will find that most competitor aren't charging this much. (Unless of course you are comparing BA Club Europe to FR prices?) Average FR fare over the last 3 years has been E50-60, average EI fare over the last 3 years E80-100. And for some pax they are happy to pay the extra 30-40, for others they don't want to.
Hence the reason why most posters here are happy to have a choice. Different airlines with different products for different markets andor different customers.
Last edited by DollarBill; 17th Feb 2013 at 22:54.
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Dear CPL593H
You are very entitled to your opinions on Ryanair and the takeover of Aer Lingus. However you cannot argue with the figures, EI are providing very stiff competition for Ryanair out of Ireland. You must accept that there is a market for more than just low cost, not everyone wants to fly with FR or to where FR fly. You cannot compare EI with BA, if you think they are the same, then you really don't know what you are talking about. EI have positioned themselves as a centre market airline between the lo costs and the legacy's and this is proving to work well for them.
You talk of hope for a flight crew job with Ryanair and don't seem to care about how much you get paid to do it. Mol would love you, you are exactly the kind of person he prays on. You'd happily work for 20k; try living on that with a flight training loan of 100k and a mortgage/rent. (I'm not talking about you personally but most people have these cost) Trust me, after 5 years of working for FR you won't be singing their praises so much. When you realise how the staff are treated and realise how treating the staff like this is part of the reason fares are lower. But you are young and naive and I know what ever I say you won't listen to because you already know it all. Maybe an attitude you should think about changing if you want to have a successful career as a pilot.
You are very entitled to your opinions on Ryanair and the takeover of Aer Lingus. However you cannot argue with the figures, EI are providing very stiff competition for Ryanair out of Ireland. You must accept that there is a market for more than just low cost, not everyone wants to fly with FR or to where FR fly. You cannot compare EI with BA, if you think they are the same, then you really don't know what you are talking about. EI have positioned themselves as a centre market airline between the lo costs and the legacy's and this is proving to work well for them.
You talk of hope for a flight crew job with Ryanair and don't seem to care about how much you get paid to do it. Mol would love you, you are exactly the kind of person he prays on. You'd happily work for 20k; try living on that with a flight training loan of 100k and a mortgage/rent. (I'm not talking about you personally but most people have these cost) Trust me, after 5 years of working for FR you won't be singing their praises so much. When you realise how the staff are treated and realise how treating the staff like this is part of the reason fares are lower. But you are young and naive and I know what ever I say you won't listen to because you already know it all. Maybe an attitude you should think about changing if you want to have a successful career as a pilot.
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Quote: “I am no lover of MOL..This is what Irks people against the EU..It's not their business…”
That’s the problem, sovereign governments have made it the EU's business.
They have abdicated their responsibilities to a supra-national bureaucracy because it’s easier than having to take responsibility for difficult decisions.
Sovereign governments have created a monster they can't now control ("ever closer union").
Quote: “The EU are very good at wasting money..I that they cannot be surpassed.”
Indeed, like any big unwieldy organisation, whether public or private.
Unfortunately, the EU is on such a large scale (continental), so the waste and the feathering their own nests is on a whole new eye-watering level.
Quote: “CPL593H Aged 22 I think another BA-LHR with little intelligence”
Interesting comment, perhaps a tad more beligerent than BA-LHR?
BTW what’s happened to BA-LHR, Windsorian, and dear old Silverstrata?
Quote: “I have a degree in politics nearly complete, and have held a pretty prominent position in a political party all for laissez-faire capitalism. I know a thing or two about economics.”
It’s “déjà vu” (all over again)! Another time, another thread, another poster…..
What party? What position? Do tell, no need to be bashful, we’re all friends here (even if the rhetoric sometimes suggests otherwise!).
That’s the problem, sovereign governments have made it the EU's business.
They have abdicated their responsibilities to a supra-national bureaucracy because it’s easier than having to take responsibility for difficult decisions.
Sovereign governments have created a monster they can't now control ("ever closer union").
Quote: “The EU are very good at wasting money..I that they cannot be surpassed.”
Indeed, like any big unwieldy organisation, whether public or private.
Unfortunately, the EU is on such a large scale (continental), so the waste and the feathering their own nests is on a whole new eye-watering level.
Quote: “CPL593H Aged 22 I think another BA-LHR with little intelligence”
Interesting comment, perhaps a tad more beligerent than BA-LHR?
BTW what’s happened to BA-LHR, Windsorian, and dear old Silverstrata?
Quote: “I have a degree in politics nearly complete, and have held a pretty prominent position in a political party all for laissez-faire capitalism. I know a thing or two about economics.”
It’s “déjà vu” (all over again)! Another time, another thread, another poster…..
What party? What position? Do tell, no need to be bashful, we’re all friends here (even if the rhetoric sometimes suggests otherwise!).
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 18th Feb 2013 at 17:09.
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"What party? What position? Do tell, no need to be bashful, we’re all friends here (even if the rhetoric sometimes suggests otherwise!)."
Scottish Socialist Party ?
Scottish Socialist Party ?
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Paxing All Over The World
Why did RyanAir think it could buy AerLingus?
Simple:
When you have been more successful than anyone ever thought you would be?
When you have made millions and millions of €?
When you have changed the way EVERY SINGLE competitor in Europe does business?
You think that you can do anything.
I repeat that he will win - one way or the other. He has tried the 'polite' way and now he will do it the MoL way. For the record, I have no opinion other than that, for any one company to control more than 50% of any product or service, is not good for the consumer.
Simple:
When you have been more successful than anyone ever thought you would be?
When you have made millions and millions of €?
When you have changed the way EVERY SINGLE competitor in Europe does business?
You think that you can do anything.
I repeat that he will win - one way or the other. He has tried the 'polite' way and now he will do it the MoL way. For the record, I have no opinion other than that, for any one company to control more than 50% of any product or service, is not good for the consumer.
For the record, I have no opinion other than that, for any one company to control more than 50% of any product or service, is not good for the consumer.
and
The day after BAA was bought by Ferrovial, in which case a monopoly situation couldn't be allowed to exist at UK Airports. The fact that nothing would have happened if Spanish hadn't bought BAA is just idle speculation. UK Govt always had plans to look at it eventually in 30 years.