Sheffield City Airport Petition
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BKS - a couple of things;
1.) would you really expect a petition to present a fully-costed business case?
2.) let's add a few others to that list of yours - Antwerp, Belfast City, Lugano, Southampton. The number of 'city' airports in Europe is quite small because most big European cities are fortunate enough to have a full-size airport close-by. Sheffield is unusual in being so far from an airport with a full-size runway (let's not dwell on that business about Robin Hood being 20min away... South Yorkshire Police would no doubt appreciate a few more details on that). So Sheffield was at a huge disadvantage until Sheffield City Airport was built.
1.) would you really expect a petition to present a fully-costed business case?
2.) let's add a few others to that list of yours - Antwerp, Belfast City, Lugano, Southampton. The number of 'city' airports in Europe is quite small because most big European cities are fortunate enough to have a full-size airport close-by. Sheffield is unusual in being so far from an airport with a full-size runway (let's not dwell on that business about Robin Hood being 20min away... South Yorkshire Police would no doubt appreciate a few more details on that). So Sheffield was at a huge disadvantage until Sheffield City Airport was built.
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Timmy W wrote:
Apart from not having a Ferrari like you seem to, for once we're in agreement! For business jets, Donny isn't that far away and will be quicker once the approved link road is built.
What is the point in this?
If business routes were possible, why not use DSA which is a 20 minute drive away.
The demand isn't there.
If business routes were possible, why not use DSA which is a 20 minute drive away.
The demand isn't there.
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@ NORMAN
All four of your airports have longer runways than SZD. Both Belfast and Southampton can accomodate jets so cannot really be compared.
You can start a petition for anything, but it is pointless if there is nobody with money who can bring it to reality. Does anyone behind the petition have such funding or know where it can be found? They don't say so, do they?
All four of your airports have longer runways than SZD. Both Belfast and Southampton can accomodate jets so cannot really be compared.
You can start a petition for anything, but it is pointless if there is nobody with money who can bring it to reality. Does anyone behind the petition have such funding or know where it can be found? They don't say so, do they?
You can start a petition for anything, but it is pointless if there is nobody with money who can bring it to reality
Sheffield City Airport
I seem to remember a couple of years ago that a local business man had tried to approach Peel with an offer to buy the airport to no avail. I cant find the original story online however.
A 120 metre runway extension was approved just prior to Peel taking over. Would be interested to know whether any further extension would have been feasible.
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The ultimate aim behind starting the petition is to end up with, sooner or later, a reopened airport handling public transport aircraft. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.
There is not one mention of who might fund or operate such a venture, which is not surprising as it has been tried and failed. The runway is/was too short, and there was insufficient demand from business pax to make the flights it could offer viable.
Of course Peel will try and otherwise develop it, that is their duty to their shareholders.
Now, I'd love BA to start a service from Leeds to New York. I could soon set up a petition and no doubt get plenty of signatures on it. Would BA take any notice? No, of course not, as it would lose money like no tomorrow.
My point? Why spend time petitioning for something that isn't going to happen?
There is not one mention of who might fund or operate such a venture, which is not surprising as it has been tried and failed. The runway is/was too short, and there was insufficient demand from business pax to make the flights it could offer viable.
Of course Peel will try and otherwise develop it, that is their duty to their shareholders.
Now, I'd love BA to start a service from Leeds to New York. I could soon set up a petition and no doubt get plenty of signatures on it. Would BA take any notice? No, of course not, as it would lose money like no tomorrow.
My point? Why spend time petitioning for something that isn't going to happen?
Last edited by BKS Air Transport; 29th Nov 2012 at 20:38.
The FSB started up the petition, if you think they are in the wrong or naive then I suggest you contact them. Is it possible that they may know more than me or you on the matter, being quite a large organisation and all?
Ive already mentioned one person who approached Peel with an offer.
Last ditch bid to save Sheffield city airport - Local Business - Sheffield Telegraph
Is it in the Sheffield tax payers best interest for the airport to be sold for £1.00 for it to be redeveloped to great benefit of the developer? Are you another one suggesting that airports should turn a profit over night, or that business routes can establish themselves over night? If that were the case then I can think of a number of airports that should be closed by now.
My point. They are petitioning for an independent public enquiry before the runway is dug up. Something that should have been done years ago, particularly as alot of public money was invested in the scheme. I appologise if I'm not being clear, I'm not saying that the airport was/is definately viable, but that there should be an impartial enquiry into the matter. Its very easy for a property developer to prove the operation non viable if they have other (more profitable) ideas for the site.
Ive already mentioned one person who approached Peel with an offer.
Last ditch bid to save Sheffield city airport - Local Business - Sheffield Telegraph
Is it in the Sheffield tax payers best interest for the airport to be sold for £1.00 for it to be redeveloped to great benefit of the developer? Are you another one suggesting that airports should turn a profit over night, or that business routes can establish themselves over night? If that were the case then I can think of a number of airports that should be closed by now.
My point. They are petitioning for an independent public enquiry before the runway is dug up. Something that should have been done years ago, particularly as alot of public money was invested in the scheme. I appologise if I'm not being clear, I'm not saying that the airport was/is definately viable, but that there should be an impartial enquiry into the matter. Its very easy for a property developer to prove the operation non viable if they have other (more profitable) ideas for the site.
Last edited by pug; 29th Nov 2012 at 23:04.
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They should re-open it as a heliport. It's ideally placed as it sits about halfway up the country.
They are petitioning for an independent public enquiry
If they think there is a strong case for the airport to be reopend they should have the courage of their convictions and club together and make Peel an offer they can't refuse.
Last edited by Groundloop; 30th Nov 2012 at 07:27.
If they think there is a strong case for the airport to be reopend they should have the courage of their convictions and club together and make Peel an offer they can't refuse.
It may be just me, but I find that some people on here are all too happy to dismiss something they have a clear lack of knowledge of, without even bothering to do their own research beyond a quick glance at wikipedia.
Last edited by pug; 30th Nov 2012 at 17:22.
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Ok, so the FSB start by comparing the airport to London City and its 3m pasengers. Naive on two counts
1. Runway length. London City's runway is 23% longer. Very significant.
2. Comparing Sheffield's potential passenger catchment profile with London City's is nonsensical. The same goes for their attempt to compare their situation with Toronto.
They want to hold up development of the site whilst an expensive public enquiry is held. Are they offering to pay for it? No. Are they offering to subsidise an operational airport if they get their way? No.
Which MP's are supporting it? Is the council supporting it?
Size of an organistion is no guarantee of common sense.
Will I write to the FSB and tell them this? No. I will content myself by not signing their petition, and having a wry smile when it ends up where it belongs.
I do tend to support the view that Sheffield is held back by a lack of suitable aviation links at present, but Robin Hood is the way forward.
1. Runway length. London City's runway is 23% longer. Very significant.
2. Comparing Sheffield's potential passenger catchment profile with London City's is nonsensical. The same goes for their attempt to compare their situation with Toronto.
They want to hold up development of the site whilst an expensive public enquiry is held. Are they offering to pay for it? No. Are they offering to subsidise an operational airport if they get their way? No.
Which MP's are supporting it? Is the council supporting it?
Size of an organistion is no guarantee of common sense.
Will I write to the FSB and tell them this? No. I will content myself by not signing their petition, and having a wry smile when it ends up where it belongs.
I do tend to support the view that Sheffield is held back by a lack of suitable aviation links at present, but Robin Hood is the way forward.
Last edited by BKS Air Transport; 1st Dec 2012 at 22:31.
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From a GA perspective Finningly is simply too expensive. The handling charge for a 172 is 78 quid and thus the place is dead. There is also a fair swell of opinion that once Peel has got the council to pay for all the roads to be redeveloped the place will close and morph into industrial units as well.
Nottingham Tollerton exists yet EMA only 12 miles away. So it can be done. You also only have to look at some where like Staverton which appears to be going from strength to strength and I would say Sheffield has a much larger population.
But then that’s missing the point the place was doomed from the moment it was sold for a quid with the proviso that it can be redeveloped after 10 years.
Nottingham Tollerton exists yet EMA only 12 miles away. So it can be done. You also only have to look at some where like Staverton which appears to be going from strength to strength and I would say Sheffield has a much larger population.
But then that’s missing the point the place was doomed from the moment it was sold for a quid with the proviso that it can be redeveloped after 10 years.
I do tend to support the view that Sheffield is held back by a lack of suitable aviation links at present, but Robin Hood is the way forward.
I take it that someone credible wanted to buy the airport is inconveniant to your argument?
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pug - what is your agenda against DSA?
Seems there is suddenly some overhwhelming need for Sheffield to have an airport on its doorstep, yet those moaning about it are unaware (or unwilling to remember) that one is already in spitting distance up the M18.
Is it the fact that it doesn't lie within the Sheffield boundaries that is the sticking point with some folk? Certainly appears so. If there is such demand, then just operate the flights from DSA.
Seems there is suddenly some overhwhelming need for Sheffield to have an airport on its doorstep, yet those moaning about it are unaware (or unwilling to remember) that one is already in spitting distance up the M18.
Is it the fact that it doesn't lie within the Sheffield boundaries that is the sticking point with some folk? Certainly appears so. If there is such demand, then just operate the flights from DSA.
Last edited by TimmyW; 2nd Dec 2012 at 14:22.
I have no agenda against DSA, but it seems a strange accusation for you to make Timmy considering your posting history.
Ive said enough on here anyway, its interesting that the FSB petition is generating discussion and I suppose thats half the point of it.
Ive said enough on here anyway, its interesting that the FSB petition is generating discussion and I suppose thats half the point of it.
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refuse the then airport director £5000 to advertise a new route to Billund, yet at the same time expect him to turn the airport around. So many of our elected representatives have escaped from toy town and are best suited to chastising Noddy for driving too fast!
Not sure one route to a remote Danish village with a seasonal tourist attraction is quite the best way to "turn round" an airport, but it does at least have plenty of models of other destinations to think about!
The FSB started up the petition, if you think they are in the wrong or naive then I suggest you contact them.
Is it in the Sheffield tax payers best interest for the airport to be sold for £1.00 for it to be redeveloped to great benefit of the developer?
The other challenge is that even if the land might be developed, the site might still need a huge clean up job, and any planning application could be subject to hefty Section 106 (planning gain) clauses.
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after it was stolen from the council tax payer.
Hopefully one day there might be some money around to get it going again
It would be of great benefit to the Advanced Manufacturing Park which is developing apace across the road.
- there's a rail line right next to it so it would be easy to add to the tram network.
Firstly, branch lines into airports tend to get built when the airport hits somewhere around the 5-20m pax pa mark, clearly well outside the scope of what's been talked about.
Secondly, even if the airport was busy enough, you'd have to take a branch of at Carbrook, thus watering down the service to Meadowhall. Now let's work this one out - serve a thriving (albeit horrid) shopping centre or a tiny airport?
More to the point, rail is the biggest reason why the airport isn't going to work here. The most important destination regional airports want is London, but London is just too close. PLH nose dived when it lost the LGW route. For all their flaws, trains started from 3 hours PLH-Paddington.
Sheffield to London trains aren't the best either - they are no quicker than Manchester or Leeds to London, but you do have an hourly headway on the faster services, and overall two trains per hour.
So the plane can't win on overall journey time or frequency to London, and this isn't a loco facility so you can't take the trains on over cost either.
So I'm with groundloop on this one.