LIVERPOOL-3
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Liverpool's case isn't helped by its lack of a coherent public transport strategy.
Around 2008 and '09, the N86 linked the airport with the city centre late at night and early in the morning. I used LPL frequently during this time and the N86 was a lifeline. The morning bus was full of passengers and airport workers (cabin crew, retailers, ramp workers etc). It ran through the main student district, giving price sensitive students an affordable means to reach the airport for that first wave of pre 8am departures. National Express, Terrorvision, and the 500 Express also linked the airport to the city centre. The public transport links made the airport very accessible.
Fast forward to today. The N86 has gone, as has the National Express link. The Terrorvision links the airport with Manchester city centre but no longer commences/ends its journey in Liverpool. The 500 still runs, but only during the day when cheaper alternatives are available that are just as fast. If your flight departs before 8am, or arrives after 10pm, it is impossible to reach the airport using public transport. The only alternative is taxi (£15 to the city centre) or car.
The decline in public transport has been matched with an assault on motorists. This is not unique to LPL, but it does exacerbate their access problems. Post Glasgow terrorist attacks, motorists can no longer drop off in front of the terminal building. They are now directed to the short term car park. Anything more than a 5 minute stay attracts a £2 charge, increasing by £2 every 10 minutes. Long term parking costs £55 for three days. Black cabs are charged £1.50 to access the airport grounds. This is passed on to the customer. Private hire taxi's are reluctant to pick up because of the potential to rack up short term parking charges.
Motorists picking up/dropping off passengers attempted to avoid these charges by dropping off on the access road. The airport painted double red lines, installed hidden cameras and stared issuing £100 fines to motorists who stopped outside of the designated areas, even if just for a few seconds. The local press had a field day! Regardless of whether it was a right or wrong thing to do, this practice alienated a massive chunk of LPL's potential market (a 'la Ryanair).
I live in Liverpool city centre. I am relatively price sensitive when booking short haul flights. I often find that it is cheaper and more convenient to catch the train from Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport than it is to access LPL early morning or late at night. The train to MAN costs £6 each way and only takes 25 minutes more than a taxi to LPL. personally, I find it ridiculous that MAN is easier to get to than LPL from Liverpool city centre! If public transport can link Liverpool city centre with Manchester airport at antisocial hours, why can't it link Liverpool with it's own airport!?
While its true that the failing economy has adversely impacted on LPL, I feel that they have done themselves no favours. LPL is a great little airport once you are there - the revamped security area has massively improved the experience in recent years. However, now that the sleeping giant up the road has woken up to the loco revolution, LPL needs to make things easier for it's potential customers.
A collective effort to make the airport more accessible early morning and late at night would be a good start. I find it hard to believe that the N86 lost money, but if it did, surely it is worth subsidising? Surely cheap, convenient access to the airport will generate far more in airfares than the initial cost?
A combined rail/bus ticket would also help - passengers catching the train should be able to buy a single ticket that takes them directly from their point of origin to the airport via Liverpool South Parkway. This could open up the North Cheshire/ Midlands catchment area more effectively (an area that is relatively poorly served by rail from MAN). Long term, the council should make a rail connection to the airport a priority - I'm always struck by similar sized airports in Germany that have dedicated rail links (e.g. Berlin SXF, Nuremburg, Dortmund). If it works there, why not here?
Around 2008 and '09, the N86 linked the airport with the city centre late at night and early in the morning. I used LPL frequently during this time and the N86 was a lifeline. The morning bus was full of passengers and airport workers (cabin crew, retailers, ramp workers etc). It ran through the main student district, giving price sensitive students an affordable means to reach the airport for that first wave of pre 8am departures. National Express, Terrorvision, and the 500 Express also linked the airport to the city centre. The public transport links made the airport very accessible.
Fast forward to today. The N86 has gone, as has the National Express link. The Terrorvision links the airport with Manchester city centre but no longer commences/ends its journey in Liverpool. The 500 still runs, but only during the day when cheaper alternatives are available that are just as fast. If your flight departs before 8am, or arrives after 10pm, it is impossible to reach the airport using public transport. The only alternative is taxi (£15 to the city centre) or car.
The decline in public transport has been matched with an assault on motorists. This is not unique to LPL, but it does exacerbate their access problems. Post Glasgow terrorist attacks, motorists can no longer drop off in front of the terminal building. They are now directed to the short term car park. Anything more than a 5 minute stay attracts a £2 charge, increasing by £2 every 10 minutes. Long term parking costs £55 for three days. Black cabs are charged £1.50 to access the airport grounds. This is passed on to the customer. Private hire taxi's are reluctant to pick up because of the potential to rack up short term parking charges.
Motorists picking up/dropping off passengers attempted to avoid these charges by dropping off on the access road. The airport painted double red lines, installed hidden cameras and stared issuing £100 fines to motorists who stopped outside of the designated areas, even if just for a few seconds. The local press had a field day! Regardless of whether it was a right or wrong thing to do, this practice alienated a massive chunk of LPL's potential market (a 'la Ryanair).
I live in Liverpool city centre. I am relatively price sensitive when booking short haul flights. I often find that it is cheaper and more convenient to catch the train from Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport than it is to access LPL early morning or late at night. The train to MAN costs £6 each way and only takes 25 minutes more than a taxi to LPL. personally, I find it ridiculous that MAN is easier to get to than LPL from Liverpool city centre! If public transport can link Liverpool city centre with Manchester airport at antisocial hours, why can't it link Liverpool with it's own airport!?
While its true that the failing economy has adversely impacted on LPL, I feel that they have done themselves no favours. LPL is a great little airport once you are there - the revamped security area has massively improved the experience in recent years. However, now that the sleeping giant up the road has woken up to the loco revolution, LPL needs to make things easier for it's potential customers.
A collective effort to make the airport more accessible early morning and late at night would be a good start. I find it hard to believe that the N86 lost money, but if it did, surely it is worth subsidising? Surely cheap, convenient access to the airport will generate far more in airfares than the initial cost?
A combined rail/bus ticket would also help - passengers catching the train should be able to buy a single ticket that takes them directly from their point of origin to the airport via Liverpool South Parkway. This could open up the North Cheshire/ Midlands catchment area more effectively (an area that is relatively poorly served by rail from MAN). Long term, the council should make a rail connection to the airport a priority - I'm always struck by similar sized airports in Germany that have dedicated rail links (e.g. Berlin SXF, Nuremburg, Dortmund). If it works there, why not here?
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I agree with a lot of what anansis says with regards to public transport particularly with regards to a combined rail/bus ticket. and indeed a combined bus ticket. although I live between the city centre and the airport I have to get 2 buses to get there.
I disagree that Manchester is just as convenient as getting to Liverpool. I do not know the last time you took the train but it is not £6 each way it is £14.50. The cheapest off-peak return is £16.80 and peak (the time you would take the train is £19.50).
A taxi from Liverpool City Centre to the airport takes between 25 and 30 minutes at that time of the morning, the train to Manchester Airport takes between 70 and 85 minutes, so at lease a 40 minute difference more than double the time it takes to get to Liverpool at that time of the morning.
A private hire taxi from Liverpool city centre to Liverpool Airport would easily be cheaper than the single train fare to Manchester Airport. I have found no reluctance of private hire companies to pick up from Liverpool airport.
Long term parking deals at Liverpool Airport are way cheaper than £55 for 3 days providing you book in advance. I have found 4 days parking departing on 20th January for £26.99 using the airport's main long stay car park. There are cheaper off airport deals too. In peak summer (July) it increases to £31.99 for 4 days.
The National Express coach from Liverpool to Manchester Airport is about £6 each way and takes about 50 minutes but none of these services connect with the first wave of departures from Manchester either.
I disagree that Manchester is just as convenient as getting to Liverpool. I do not know the last time you took the train but it is not £6 each way it is £14.50. The cheapest off-peak return is £16.80 and peak (the time you would take the train is £19.50).
A taxi from Liverpool City Centre to the airport takes between 25 and 30 minutes at that time of the morning, the train to Manchester Airport takes between 70 and 85 minutes, so at lease a 40 minute difference more than double the time it takes to get to Liverpool at that time of the morning.
A private hire taxi from Liverpool city centre to Liverpool Airport would easily be cheaper than the single train fare to Manchester Airport. I have found no reluctance of private hire companies to pick up from Liverpool airport.
Long term parking deals at Liverpool Airport are way cheaper than £55 for 3 days providing you book in advance. I have found 4 days parking departing on 20th January for £26.99 using the airport's main long stay car park. There are cheaper off airport deals too. In peak summer (July) it increases to £31.99 for 4 days.
The National Express coach from Liverpool to Manchester Airport is about £6 each way and takes about 50 minutes but none of these services connect with the first wave of departures from Manchester either.
Last edited by Ametyst1; 12th Jan 2014 at 14:06.
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Hi Ametyst1,
I suppose the thrust of my post was my frustration at the relatively good public links between Liverpool city centre and MAN in the context of limited links between the city centre and LPL.
The fares I quoted for the train to MAN were based on 50% of the cost of a return ticket in order to compare like for like with a taxi. You are quite right about the price - I use a railcard which works out at £12 return. I didn't factor this in so I stand corrected. Without a railcard, the 3.38 departure costs £9.75 (£19.50 return) and takes 70 minutes to get from Lime Street to Manchester Airport.
As for whether it is more convenient or not, I think it comes down to personal preference. I am walking distance from Lime St. A private hire costs me £15 to LPL and if I have a choice about an early morning departure, I prefer to catch the train to MAN. I am prepared to take the time penalty when other factors are considered (price, waiting for a taxi, knowing my exact arrival time). I'm sure not everyone would agree and that's fine. Overall though, I feel that many more people would use Liverpool airport if it was easier to get there and back!
I suppose the thrust of my post was my frustration at the relatively good public links between Liverpool city centre and MAN in the context of limited links between the city centre and LPL.
The fares I quoted for the train to MAN were based on 50% of the cost of a return ticket in order to compare like for like with a taxi. You are quite right about the price - I use a railcard which works out at £12 return. I didn't factor this in so I stand corrected. Without a railcard, the 3.38 departure costs £9.75 (£19.50 return) and takes 70 minutes to get from Lime Street to Manchester Airport.
As for whether it is more convenient or not, I think it comes down to personal preference. I am walking distance from Lime St. A private hire costs me £15 to LPL and if I have a choice about an early morning departure, I prefer to catch the train to MAN. I am prepared to take the time penalty when other factors are considered (price, waiting for a taxi, knowing my exact arrival time). I'm sure not everyone would agree and that's fine. Overall though, I feel that many more people would use Liverpool airport if it was easier to get there and back!
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The National Express coach from Liverpool to Manchester Airport is about £6 each way and takes about 50 minutes but none of these services connect with the first wave of departures from Manchester either.
Taken from National Express web site:
13/01/14 LIVERPOOL (Coach Station) 02:30 Manchester Airport 03:20
0h 50m £6.60
0h 50m £6.60
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A good post Anansis,
This is what happens when airport's decide to 'attack' the people who make the airport work or fail.
Double red lines, cameras, fines......making the passenger feel like a crook, making the passenger feel like this arrogant company has its greedy hand permanently in its pocket AND insisting that it's all in their own interest.
Well; the passengers have had enough and realised that they have a choice.
There's a powerful lesson to all airports in this current unfortunate situation. The smart ones will pay heed, passengers are much more savvy now.
This is what happens when airport's decide to 'attack' the people who make the airport work or fail.
Double red lines, cameras, fines......making the passenger feel like a crook, making the passenger feel like this arrogant company has its greedy hand permanently in its pocket AND insisting that it's all in their own interest.
Well; the passengers have had enough and realised that they have a choice.
There's a powerful lesson to all airports in this current unfortunate situation. The smart ones will pay heed, passengers are much more savvy now.
Reality check needed. Still over 4,000,000 pax. Pax numbers up in December & so far in January too.
LJLA actually made an operating profit of over £5,000,000 last year.
General aviation is still as healthy as ever. Biz jets busier than ever, EZY & RYR are offering a similar number of bums on seats this year, so pax numbers are likely to be very similar to 2013.
LJLA survived on around 1/20th of the pax numbers we have now for many many years.
Peel still own a stake in the airport. Do you really think Peel, who are investing £6 BILLION into the Liverpool Waters development, would leave the city without its own airport? If it isn't in Peels best interest, it won't happen.
There are many airports in the UK that would do anything to have LJLAs 4 million pax problems...
LJLA actually made an operating profit of over £5,000,000 last year.
General aviation is still as healthy as ever. Biz jets busier than ever, EZY & RYR are offering a similar number of bums on seats this year, so pax numbers are likely to be very similar to 2013.
LJLA survived on around 1/20th of the pax numbers we have now for many many years.
Peel still own a stake in the airport. Do you really think Peel, who are investing £6 BILLION into the Liverpool Waters development, would leave the city without its own airport? If it isn't in Peels best interest, it won't happen.
There are many airports in the UK that would do anything to have LJLAs 4 million pax problems...
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Ive noticed that twice now since Vantage started sponsoring airlineroute, there have been 2 posts containing one-off charters, which also appear to have been written by someone different to the usual publisher of the blog, as they contain words like 'Liverpool airport welcomes......', which the normal publisher does not do.
So, the question is, who do these posts benefit? Im not for one second suggesting Liverpool Airport does not deserve to have a post, on the contrary new routes need as much advertising as possible, but, with them being specifically chartered 1 off flights for a group/event, the public cannot book onto them, and other airlines are unlikely to read the data for market trends as they are not new routes but chartered for s specific event, so why does the general public need to know of this flight? There are hundreds of one off charters per year that do not get published, so why are these flights to LPL treated differently?
It just seems odd that 9 times out of 10, airlineroute is for new routes or flights the public can normally book on?
So, the question is, who do these posts benefit? Im not for one second suggesting Liverpool Airport does not deserve to have a post, on the contrary new routes need as much advertising as possible, but, with them being specifically chartered 1 off flights for a group/event, the public cannot book onto them, and other airlines are unlikely to read the data for market trends as they are not new routes but chartered for s specific event, so why does the general public need to know of this flight? There are hundreds of one off charters per year that do not get published, so why are these flights to LPL treated differently?
It just seems odd that 9 times out of 10, airlineroute is for new routes or flights the public can normally book on?
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Terms like these on subject related websites are viewed as high quality links by Google, so enhancing the web ranking on search engines. It will help Liverpool airport appear higher on the free ads when people search "Liverpool Airport" or even "Airport". Its usually done or requested by search engine optimisation companies that are employed to improve web rankings. May be a reason for it.
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I do not see the problem with Double Red lines on the approach roads to Liverpool Airport. The road also provides access to an Emergency Rendevouz Point. And like other roads with such parking restrictions there are cameras and sometimes associated fines.
How many airports, with a throughput of over 4 Million passengers, allow unrestricted parking on the approavh roads to the airport terminal? And, moreover, how many airports provide free dropping off time, allbeit for 5 minutes.
I do not see that Liverpool Airport and its owners are wrong here!
How many airports, with a throughput of over 4 Million passengers, allow unrestricted parking on the approavh roads to the airport terminal? And, moreover, how many airports provide free dropping off time, allbeit for 5 minutes.
I do not see that Liverpool Airport and its owners are wrong here!
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<<how many airports provide free dropping off time, allbeit for 5 minutes.
I do not see that Liverpool Airport and its owners are wrong here!>>
erm, Manchester allows free drop off.
Go figure.
Being charged to drop off at an airport is just one of those petty inconveniences that totally pi$$es people off.
Do stuff like that to the punters often enough and they just get fed up with the whole experience.
Let's examine the evidence:
MAN pax up
LPL pax down
Even RYR have worked out that you cannot be seen to be nasty to the punter and get away with it for ever.
I do not see that Liverpool Airport and its owners are wrong here!>>
erm, Manchester allows free drop off.
Go figure.
Being charged to drop off at an airport is just one of those petty inconveniences that totally pi$$es people off.
Do stuff like that to the punters often enough and they just get fed up with the whole experience.
Let's examine the evidence:
MAN pax up
LPL pax down
Even RYR have worked out that you cannot be seen to be nasty to the punter and get away with it for ever.
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Summer 2014
What is the latest view on seats offered this summer c/w 2013? Someone previously made the point that Ryanair will be similar to last year, but wasn't there a previous suggestion of one fewer aircraft? And what of easyJet? Presumably FlyBe will be down?
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Easyjet about the same, Ryanair 1 aircraft down and 4 fewer flights from away based aircraft, wizzair about the same, Norwegian gone and flybe remains to be seen just what frequency they will operate IOM with.
I expect there will be another reduction in passenger numbers, unless there are champions league flights to give a little boost.
I expect there will be another reduction in passenger numbers, unless there are champions league flights to give a little boost.
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And, moreover, how many airports provide free dropping off time, allbeit for 5 minutes.
Unless you mean in comedy gold 21st century Britain, where that's just much too dangerous coupled with an opportunity to make some money.
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Skippy, an increasing number of airports charge for the privilege of dropping your passengers off...Birmingham, Bristol, Leeds, Newcastle, Bournemouth, East Midlands, to name a few. Also, DFT regulations following the Glasgow Airport attack mean most airports have had to move their drop off zones further away from the terminal.
From some of the comments here you would think Liverpool Airport had moved the drop off zone to the old airport site! It's about 45 metres from the front door.
From some of the comments here you would think Liverpool Airport had moved the drop off zone to the old airport site! It's about 45 metres from the front door.