carlisle/southend
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carlisle/southend
if stobarts plans for carlisle airport get the go ahead flights from carlisle to southend would DEP CAX 07.50 ARR SEN 08.15 DPT SEN 08.40 ARR CAX 09.50. This is a proposed scheduale using a Carlisle based ATR 42.But depends on wether carlisle district council are willing or wanting any flights.with the ATR based at CAX it could fly to dublin and possibly connect with flights to the USA
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carlisle/southend
News comes fron AER Arran,they must be in talks with the council and stobarts(didnt stobarts stop aer arran from going bust)And put up money for the new ATRs?.All we can do is watch and wait
Carlisle-Euston takes 3h25m on a train which runs every hour. Carlisle is not a huge city and is surrounded by large swathes of countryside with 2 large national parks nearby
May I ask what the proposed customer base is for this new CAX-SEN route ?
May I ask what the proposed customer base is for this new CAX-SEN route ?
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The plan for Carlisle is to upgrade the runway, build a small new terminal and run a few pax flights and few cargo flights apart from that the rest of the site will be used by the haulage division with a large warehouse build too.
Suggest you have a look at the Carlisle thread for the up to date position. In summary, Stobart's have applied for planning permission to upgrade/redevelop the airport but this has yet to be granted - and no, the redevelopment doesn't include an ILS. As part of the planning process, Aer Arran have written a letter to the council saying they will fly to Southend and Dublin.
I would suggest that by the time the CAX infrastucture is capable of supporting the route all the ATR-42s will have been disposed of. In other words it will be several years before if could become a reality and I assume the suggested timetable has been published now solely in support of the current planning application.
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DEP CAX 07.50 ARR SEN 08.15 DPT SEN 08.40 ARR CAX 09.50
Typing error should have read CAX 07.00 SEN 08.15 SEN 08.40 CAX 09.55 CAX15.35 SEN 16.50 SEN 17.15 CAX 18.30
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Might I suggest that these timings were purely indicative of a sample schedule, should planning be approved, and therefore they have no relevance to any actual service, which will depend on the relevant operator willingness and airport cooperation at the time.
I second what dj6 has already said - utterly pointless to fly to deepest Essex when going up against a train service that is largely under-used.
Remember - this route would have to survive on its own merits, whereas the train will continue to exist regardless, as Carlisle is on the way to somewhere else. Much easier to take advantage of that face and stop pretending people will want to fly to somewhere and then spend an hour to get into London to save what - an hour?
I second what dj6 has already said - utterly pointless to fly to deepest Essex when going up against a train service that is largely under-used.
Remember - this route would have to survive on its own merits, whereas the train will continue to exist regardless, as Carlisle is on the way to somewhere else. Much easier to take advantage of that face and stop pretending people will want to fly to somewhere and then spend an hour to get into London to save what - an hour?
Stobarts want to develop CAX + Council want London service + Stobarts own both RE and SEN = letter from RE saying "we want to fly SEN-CAX".
No other logic applies.
No other logic applies.
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No other logic applies.
Stobart are a trucking company who have got into airports - that follows logic to a point.
Connecting those airports just because they own both of them sounds more like the economics of the mad house to me, and the fact the council want it doesn't mean it is going to work either.
Equally, the airport / airline attempt at vertical integration is often tried, seldom a success.
Last edited by jabird; 12th Jul 2012 at 15:21.
You're trying to apply the wrong kind of logic.
Stobarts want planning permission for a road haulage depot at CAX from the council - the only way they'll get it is by tieing it into the development of the airport.
The council want an air service to London (because it will bring 'inward investment' and 'tourists' and will 'put us on the map').
Stobarts own an airport in London and an airline.
Hence the airline owned by Stobarts sends a letter to the council saying it will fly between the two airports owned by Stobarts if the council gives planning permission.
"will this route actually make any money" is irrelevant, it's about getting planning permission.
It's that simple.
Stobarts want planning permission for a road haulage depot at CAX from the council - the only way they'll get it is by tieing it into the development of the airport.
The council want an air service to London (because it will bring 'inward investment' and 'tourists' and will 'put us on the map').
Stobarts own an airport in London and an airline.
Hence the airline owned by Stobarts sends a letter to the council saying it will fly between the two airports owned by Stobarts if the council gives planning permission.
"will this route actually make any money" is irrelevant, it's about getting planning permission.
It's that simple.
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Carlisle-Euston takes 3h25m on a train which runs every hour. Carlisle is not a huge city and is surrounded by large swathes of countryside with 2 large national parks nearby. May I ask what the proposed customer base is for this new CAX-SEN route ?
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carlisle/southend
It might work well though . I read that there was talk of trying to open Walney Airport for scheduled flights . So perhaps there is a small market for Cumbria and south Scotland to use it at Carlisle
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"will this route actually make any money" is irrelevant, it's about getting planning permission.
It's that simple.
It's that simple.
Let's also look at it the other way round. Southend to London's an hour by train; crossing London to Euston takes the best part of another hour. People from Essex travelling to The Lake District, Northumberland, and the Cumbria/Lancashire M6 corridor, as well as South West Scotland and the Borders could use this flight and avoid adding to the congestion of London in rush hour.
You could apply the same logic to LGW or LTN - each of the "London" airports has its own local catchment area in addition to the parts of London that are near it (including Stratford / Docklands etc for SEN), but the core catchment is still central London.
You might look at INV and say it too has a large catchment around it. However, even with significantly less population than CAX, INV can sustain multiple routes to London because it only has one direct train per day, and is at the end of the route, not a stop which is on the way to somewhere else - infact somewheres elses if we count the daily VT to Waverley - and ditto for why a route to BHX would be unsustainable, given the passing XC rail traffic.
So let's assume there is a binding requirement for the route to operate, and it can even get reasonable loads on some of the weekday morning services, but yields are poor - just as they are if you compare VT prices to Glasgow with those to Manchester.
Do they just continue to run the route at a loss? What if they sell RE? There is always going to be a get out clause.