Monarch - 3
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,924
So, are Monarch 'flight only' bookings, made via their website, ATOL protected or not?
a) receive the ticket immediately
b) have made the booking with a scheduled airline
Same in my understanding goes for ANY online flight-only booking made with ANY airline in the UK.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: London, UK
Posts: 197
The test is whether you get an ATOL certificate when you book.
From the CAA site:
Does ATOL cover bookings made online?
Yes, as long as your holiday is one for which protection is legally required and you are booking with a UK travel company.
For instance, if you use a website's 'flights and hotel' booking option to purchase flights and accommodation at the same time, then the law says your travel company must provide ATOL protection.
However, ATOL only covers bookings made with travel companies, not those made directly with airlines.
From the CAA site:
Does ATOL cover bookings made online?
Yes, as long as your holiday is one for which protection is legally required and you are booking with a UK travel company.
For instance, if you use a website's 'flights and hotel' booking option to purchase flights and accommodation at the same time, then the law says your travel company must provide ATOL protection.
However, ATOL only covers bookings made with travel companies, not those made directly with airlines.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: gate 67 JFK
Posts: 690
Assets of ZB
hmmmm
Well LGW slots would be of interest to EZ/DY for sure
Engineering business, well regarded
Maybe the AOC with EU rights to the US might be of interest to Norwegian?
Delivery slots on the MAX ?
Of course it will be none of the above
hmmmm
Well LGW slots would be of interest to EZ/DY for sure
Engineering business, well regarded
Maybe the AOC with EU rights to the US might be of interest to Norwegian?
Delivery slots on the MAX ?
Of course it will be none of the above
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: BHX
Posts: 305
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: East Midlands
Posts: 453
Most likely an additional order of 15 on top of the 30 already on order.
I'd also expect these aircraft to be 737 MAX 9's.
I feel it would however be better to focus on what they have right now and build up from that...
I'd also expect these aircraft to be 737 MAX 9's.
I feel it would however be better to focus on what they have right now and build up from that...
Last edited by Cazza_fly; 2nd Oct 2016 at 08:58.
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Anywhere
Posts: 65
This order is the biggest pile of baloney you will ever have seen. Mark my words. From being on the brink to almost losing rights to sell holidays to ordering 2 billion worth of jets? A PR stunt to ride out the inevitable demise that's all this is. Investors are not idiots. There are far better and much more robust companies to invest in and most know better than us the old adage....what's the best way to make a million in aviation? ....Start of with a billion.
Let's apply some basic fishy smell sensing and business rules here.
Let's apply some basic fishy smell sensing and business rules here.
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Soon to be out of the EU.
Posts: 0
Monarch is not 'bouncing back' with a giant plane order. It's introducing a significant risk and cost to what has become are rather shaky operation.
After a week of ups and downs (mainly downs), they come out and announce they're committing funds to replacing the fleet.
Notwithstanding the fact that the deal may have been done by previous leadership, who can possibly think it's a good idea to introduce an aircraft that does exactly the same as what the current fleet does? If the A321 are too big, get rid and replace them with A320 for which they're all trained to operate.
The company were very quiet and coy over the last week. Yet magically when it comes to splashing (customer's) cash they're singing like a canary.
Utter madness.
After a week of ups and downs (mainly downs), they come out and announce they're committing funds to replacing the fleet.
Notwithstanding the fact that the deal may have been done by previous leadership, who can possibly think it's a good idea to introduce an aircraft that does exactly the same as what the current fleet does? If the A321 are too big, get rid and replace them with A320 for which they're all trained to operate.
The company were very quiet and coy over the last week. Yet magically when it comes to splashing (customer's) cash they're singing like a canary.
Utter madness.
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: BHX
Posts: 305
Anyone know who these major institutions mentioned are ? All seems a bit strange one minute there on the brink the next majpr investment coming in , Aviation is a mystery to me i have to say
Hope it all comes to fruition
Hope it all comes to fruition
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 34
When you order a Boeing it's circa 50 mil for a basic aircraft, an Airbus will be a lot higher but will come fully equipped to meet EASA regulations.
So you can announce a bigger future order of Boeings and they look like a really good deal. But when it comes to equipping them you then have to pay through the nose for Stall Warners, RNAV capability, ACARs, Fail operational autopilot systems etc. So the aircraft end up costing 2 billion + 1 billion for add ons. But only the 2 billion goes down on paper.
Utter madness by the bean counters to not expand the A320 family fleet, it would have been a smaller deal but could have avoided huge costs in re-training and changing ops. But then I guess it made a really good PR stunt. Just an absolute pain for those staff a few years down the line who have to deal with it.
So you can announce a bigger future order of Boeings and they look like a really good deal. But when it comes to equipping them you then have to pay through the nose for Stall Warners, RNAV capability, ACARs, Fail operational autopilot systems etc. So the aircraft end up costing 2 billion + 1 billion for add ons. But only the 2 billion goes down on paper.
Utter madness by the bean counters to not expand the A320 family fleet, it would have been a smaller deal but could have avoided huge costs in re-training and changing ops. But then I guess it made a really good PR stunt. Just an absolute pain for those staff a few years down the line who have to deal with it.
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Soon to be out of the EU.
Posts: 0
It's utter madness. Replacing a perfectly good fleet, with a fleet that does exactly the same only with requiring a vast amount of money to introduce when there's nothing wrong with the the current fleet. If the A321 is too big, switch to A320s. If the A320 is too small, spaceflex them and refit to 186Y which is only 3 seats less than the 737-800. You'll need to operate A LOT of full flights to make it worth all of the extra expense just to fly an additional three seats around.
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Soon to be out of the EU.
Posts: 0
It could be part of a bigger plan to get them sold off to Jet2, Ryanair or Thomson. Nobody wanted to buy them as an Airbus operator, perhaps they think they have a better chance as a Boeing operator. We all know it's not about the long term profitability of the airline that is a priority. It's a buying the airline on the cheap and trying to flip it as quickly as possible for the maximum price.
When you think of it all you'll need is the deposit for the aircraft. The mortgages will just be an ongoing business expense. Boeing will chuck free training into the bargain and there you go like Airbus did when EasyJet went Airbus.
When you think of it all you'll need is the deposit for the aircraft. The mortgages will just be an ongoing business expense. Boeing will chuck free training into the bargain and there you go like Airbus did when EasyJet went Airbus.
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: ALC
Posts: 4
Not sure that The Telegraph article is accurate, the order for the new aircraft was confirmed 2 years ago this month.
The order for the 30 737 MAX 8s + option on additional 15 737 aircraft was confirmed in October 2014 following an announcement at the Farnborough Airshow in July 2014.
Monarch finalises order for Boeing 737 Max 8s - Monarch Blog
The order for the 30 737 MAX 8s + option on additional 15 737 aircraft was confirmed in October 2014 following an announcement at the Farnborough Airshow in July 2014.
Monarch finalises order for Boeing 737 Max 8s - Monarch Blog
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 4,326
Airbus needed a first major LCC to buy their planes to show that an A320 was viable for a LCC instead of the 737 being seen as the only suitable aircraft; Easyjet took advantage of Airbus' desperation. Boeing have no particular urgent need for Monarch's vote of confidence and will not give Monarch such a good deal.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: London, UK
Posts: 197
In which case Monarch is providing EXTRA protection over and above what easyJet (for example) is providing for flight-only bookings.
So those asking why would you book Monarch over another carrier, this is a sound reason to do so as you would appear to have extra protection.
So those asking why would you book Monarch over another carrier, this is a sound reason to do so as you would appear to have extra protection.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Either the back of a sim, or wherever Crewing send me.
Posts: 981
Everyone is talking as if Monarch actually needs an ATOL to sell its flights. It doesn't and neither does (for example) easyJet .
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: uk
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by HeartyMeatballs
It's utter madness. Replacing a perfectly good fleet, with a fleet that does exactly the same only with requiring a vast amount of money to introduce when there's nothing wrong with the the current fleet. If the A321 is too big, switch to A320s. If the A320 is too small, spaceflex them and refit to 186Y which is only 3 seats less than the 737-800. You'll need to operate A LOT of full flights to make it worth all of the extra expense just to fly an additional three seats around.
Needless to say, replacing an aging fleet with a new fleet, comes with significant maintenance savings, I have been privileged enough to see the figures.....and NO, I wont be sharing them on a public rumour forum!!!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 136
I believe Monarch ordered the 30 737MAX in 2014 with delieries starting in 2018 and that it went into the Boeing order book with Monarch as the Customer. They took options for a further 15 and it is possible that the confirmation date for those options is coming up (though it seems a bit early if first deliveries are say in 2020.)
The only explanation I can see for making an announcement now would be if they are putting in place a means to finance these aircraft such that the cost to Monarch before delivery will be minimal thus not a drain on their cash-flow.
The only explanation I can see for making an announcement now would be if they are putting in place a means to finance these aircraft such that the cost to Monarch before delivery will be minimal thus not a drain on their cash-flow.
