BOURNEMOUTH - 3
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BOH Diversions -late 1990'sD
During one 17 hour day the Ramp Crew of 10 men handled 35 Diversions -mainly BA 737's-talk about keeping fit! There was great team- spirit and pride then. Does anyone remember the crazy wizzo scheme dreamed up by the bosses to export veal calves to Europe for a period of 5 years- that lasted for a few months until the a/c crashed at Coventry in bad visibility.
Join Date: Aug 2000
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There was a time when everyone used to work together to get the job done regardless and experience counted at least as much as qualifications. These days most employees are just treated as resources, a degree is need to do even straightforward jobs and the risk assessments can't be completed before the crisis has passed. The result is that no one feels valued and poor, indecisive management can't make pragmatic decisions without upward approval. Don't expect any significant soon!
Join Date: Nov 2012
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flybe facts
A lot has been written on FlyBe's departure from Bournemouth and that the routes did not work. Here is the reality check giving average percentage load per sector using a 68 seat aircraft.
Amsterdam 65%
Paris 69%
Dublin 74%
Toulon 68%
Biarritz 75%
Glasgow 48%
Manchester 51%
Jersey 54%
Deauville 29%
Agreed Deauville did not work and we could have all told them it wouldn't.
Manchester and Glasgow could have been consolidated in to one flight as DanAir did in the good old days if half full was not enough revenue for 2 separate flights. The reality is there is a definite need for these routes DID work .I am sure that many routes from S'pton go out with much less people on board which FlyBe are happy to continue with.
I agree with a previous writer that a home based airline with 50 seaters should do well. Dash 8 has the advantage of being fast for a turbo prop ,ATR may not have the range for Toulon.
Possible work for VLM ,Blue Islands or Aurigny or BM regional or a resurrection of EuroScot.
Bournemouth town centre is expanding fast ,just look at the building going on. Arabs buying up Hotels etc etc so should bring in more pax. One has to question why has this been allowed to happen?
Amsterdam 65%
Paris 69%
Dublin 74%
Toulon 68%
Biarritz 75%
Glasgow 48%
Manchester 51%
Jersey 54%
Deauville 29%
Agreed Deauville did not work and we could have all told them it wouldn't.
Manchester and Glasgow could have been consolidated in to one flight as DanAir did in the good old days if half full was not enough revenue for 2 separate flights. The reality is there is a definite need for these routes DID work .I am sure that many routes from S'pton go out with much less people on board which FlyBe are happy to continue with.
I agree with a previous writer that a home based airline with 50 seaters should do well. Dash 8 has the advantage of being fast for a turbo prop ,ATR may not have the range for Toulon.
Possible work for VLM ,Blue Islands or Aurigny or BM regional or a resurrection of EuroScot.
Bournemouth town centre is expanding fast ,just look at the building going on. Arabs buying up Hotels etc etc so should bring in more pax. One has to question why has this been allowed to happen?
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[QUOTE=bac3-11;9225315]A lot has been written on FlyBe's departure from Bournemouth and that the routes did not work. Here is the reality check giving average percentage load per sector using a 68 seat aircraft.
Amsterdam 65%
Paris 69%
Dublin 74%
Toulon 68%
Biarritz 75%
Glasgow 48%
Manchester 51%
Jersey 54%
Deauville 29%
Agreed Deauville did not work and we could have all told them it wouldn't.
Manchester and Glasgow could have been consolidated in to one flight as DanAir did in the good old days if half full was not enough revenue for 2 separate flights. The reality is there is a definite need for these routes DID work .I am sure that many routes from S'pton go out with much less people on board which FlyBe are happy to continue with.
I love the enthusiasm, however how do we know that these routes 'DID' work? By my reckoning an average load factor of between 65-75% does not prove a route works. It's back to the same old argument of yeild I guess. Anyone can fill an aircraft but making good money, well that's a different matter. I cannot imagine they were dancing round the office in Exeter HQ at a 65% LF on the AMS for example.
The basic fact is the flybe experiment is over and I cannot see any airline eager to take up those routes left behind. Time to be nice to Mr O'Leary I feel!
Amsterdam 65%
Paris 69%
Dublin 74%
Toulon 68%
Biarritz 75%
Glasgow 48%
Manchester 51%
Jersey 54%
Deauville 29%
Agreed Deauville did not work and we could have all told them it wouldn't.
Manchester and Glasgow could have been consolidated in to one flight as DanAir did in the good old days if half full was not enough revenue for 2 separate flights. The reality is there is a definite need for these routes DID work .I am sure that many routes from S'pton go out with much less people on board which FlyBe are happy to continue with.
I love the enthusiasm, however how do we know that these routes 'DID' work? By my reckoning an average load factor of between 65-75% does not prove a route works. It's back to the same old argument of yeild I guess. Anyone can fill an aircraft but making good money, well that's a different matter. I cannot imagine they were dancing round the office in Exeter HQ at a 65% LF on the AMS for example.
The basic fact is the flybe experiment is over and I cannot see any airline eager to take up those routes left behind. Time to be nice to Mr O'Leary I feel!
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Never ceases to amaze me this thread ha ha ha ha ha.
Let me just bring up that all important word again..........YEILD.
With that word in mind the suggestion that the likes of VLM, Eastern or BM should operate from BOH purely because they have small aircraft is unbelievably naive. Have you even thought to look at their business models? They operate routes dictated by industry and business and only make their small aircraft work by charging massive ticket prices. Eastern are based around the oil industry and VLM routes on connecting key ports. Does Bournemouth have an oil refinery? No. Does Bournemouth have a large port? No. Can Bournemouth sustain airlines that charge a few hundred pounds a ticket? No. Do the people on this thread need to be more intelligent than just looking at load factors to judge the success of routes? Yes.
Let me just bring up that all important word again..........YEILD.
With that word in mind the suggestion that the likes of VLM, Eastern or BM should operate from BOH purely because they have small aircraft is unbelievably naive. Have you even thought to look at their business models? They operate routes dictated by industry and business and only make their small aircraft work by charging massive ticket prices. Eastern are based around the oil industry and VLM routes on connecting key ports. Does Bournemouth have an oil refinery? No. Does Bournemouth have a large port? No. Can Bournemouth sustain airlines that charge a few hundred pounds a ticket? No. Do the people on this thread need to be more intelligent than just looking at load factors to judge the success of routes? Yes.
Does Bournemouth have an oil refinery? No.
Does Bournemouth have a large port?
Join Date: Jan 2006
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flybe
bac3-11
Why use 68 seats as a reality check?
flybe DH8D's have always had 78 seats which is almost an extra 15% than what you have used.
A dummy booking on flybe.com clearly shows the Dash 8 config or this site: -
https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Flybe
Pete
Why use 68 seats as a reality check?
flybe DH8D's have always had 78 seats which is almost an extra 15% than what you have used.
A dummy booking on flybe.com clearly shows the Dash 8 config or this site: -
https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Flybe
Pete
Join Date: Nov 2002
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I agree with Olton Pete
God its basic stuff if your going to post get the aircraft config correct before you start , and yes it is all about Yield and all this has already been posted before
Flybe are off out of here in March , the post mortem has been done now , nothing is going to change at the moment so lets just get back to Ryanair and Thomson this summer and the BA Cityflyer charters and take it from there …
God its basic stuff if your going to post get the aircraft config correct before you start , and yes it is all about Yield and all this has already been posted before
Flybe are off out of here in March , the post mortem has been done now , nothing is going to change at the moment so lets just get back to Ryanair and Thomson this summer and the BA Cityflyer charters and take it from there …
Join Date: Oct 2009
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'Flyby are off out of here in March , the post mortem has been done now , nothing is going to change at the moment so lets just get back to Ryanair and Thomson this summer and the BA Cityflyer charters and take it from there …'
And fingers crossed that's enough to keep MAG interested and heads above the water!!
And fingers crossed that's enough to keep MAG interested and heads above the water!!
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Rivet joint,
A very sensible post indeed. The likes of Eastern, VLM, BM would not work for the reasons pointed out. BOH has to be leisure orientated and competitive fares. Hence I suggest that needs to be by the likes of FR who have a very low cost base... Equally, for the smaller airlines like VLM, they are not well known, and to get their name on the map would require an significant marketing spend. So that is also out.
All that said and completely in agreement regarding yield, money has to be made. However, it feels like Flybe are trying new markets, and not waiting very long for them to succeed. Flybe doesn't have a huge amount of markets available to them that are not attractive to low cost airlines... I suggest BOH could be one such airport. If they could have held on and made the base work growing the numbers again over LY and note some routes did attract good numbers, I believe the appropriate fares would follow. That's just my perspective... Again nobody outside Flybe knows the precise yield... Though I fear airports like Doncaster and Cardiff will go the same way....I.e. Flybe bases launched with big fanfare only to be canned less than a year later, and in the process muddying the reputation of the particular airports as being unattractive to potential airlines.
EI-BUD
A very sensible post indeed. The likes of Eastern, VLM, BM would not work for the reasons pointed out. BOH has to be leisure orientated and competitive fares. Hence I suggest that needs to be by the likes of FR who have a very low cost base... Equally, for the smaller airlines like VLM, they are not well known, and to get their name on the map would require an significant marketing spend. So that is also out.
All that said and completely in agreement regarding yield, money has to be made. However, it feels like Flybe are trying new markets, and not waiting very long for them to succeed. Flybe doesn't have a huge amount of markets available to them that are not attractive to low cost airlines... I suggest BOH could be one such airport. If they could have held on and made the base work growing the numbers again over LY and note some routes did attract good numbers, I believe the appropriate fares would follow. That's just my perspective... Again nobody outside Flybe knows the precise yield... Though I fear airports like Doncaster and Cardiff will go the same way....I.e. Flybe bases launched with big fanfare only to be canned less than a year later, and in the process muddying the reputation of the particular airports as being unattractive to potential airlines.
EI-BUD
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LGS6753: last time I checked Fawley was in Hampshire and not Dorset. In any event Esso's gulfstream is a frequent visitor of SOU so I think that would indicate which airport their traffic uses. Obviously not forgetting T3's network of oil related routes that use SOU and not BOH. Wytch Farm and Kimmeridge are small fry and are likely to generate no air traffic whatsoever.
Which port are you referring to? If it's Poole then you must be joking if you are suggesting that.
EI-BUD: Not only the airports but also BE's reputation in my eyes. These airports are left untouched by airlines for a reason and have been for a long time. Making a deal with the operator enabling BE to operate pretty much free of any landing charges is not going to make up for the fact that not enough people want to pay sustainable prices to fly from these unwanted airports. BE's tickets are quite expensive and it's only the likes of the bargain basement brigade who are going to get any joy out of these airports and only on a seasonal basis. Regional airports are more of a luxury than a necessity.
Which port are you referring to? If it's Poole then you must be joking if you are suggesting that.
EI-BUD: Not only the airports but also BE's reputation in my eyes. These airports are left untouched by airlines for a reason and have been for a long time. Making a deal with the operator enabling BE to operate pretty much free of any landing charges is not going to make up for the fact that not enough people want to pay sustainable prices to fly from these unwanted airports. BE's tickets are quite expensive and it's only the likes of the bargain basement brigade who are going to get any joy out of these airports and only on a seasonal basis. Regional airports are more of a luxury than a necessity.
Rivet,
Whilst I agree with the sentiment of your original post, I was merely pointing out that, in making a valid point you were relying on questionable information.
Yes, Fawley is in Hampshire, just as Bournemouth used to be. I would guess it is almost as close to BOH as to SOU.
I was making no claims about Poole Harbour's commercial importance or impact on air traffic.
In my view the main issue is the BOH catchment area, which has a small population and poor north- and westwards ground communications.
Whilst I agree with the sentiment of your original post, I was merely pointing out that, in making a valid point you were relying on questionable information.
Yes, Fawley is in Hampshire, just as Bournemouth used to be. I would guess it is almost as close to BOH as to SOU.
I was making no claims about Poole Harbour's commercial importance or impact on air traffic.
In my view the main issue is the BOH catchment area, which has a small population and poor north- and westwards ground communications.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: bournemouth
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Advertising
It amazes me that in the arrivals hall there is Nothing at all that mentions any flights. No leaflets, no brochures no signs. Every time a flight lands there always people sat waiting for friends family looking at purple walls.
Just a stupid comment but you would think some kind of advertising should be in there
I really think management should change or airport ownership
Just a stupid comment but you would think some kind of advertising should be in there
I really think management should change or airport ownership
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: uk
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I find purple makes a nice backdrop for maps of the local motorway and rail networks which easily connect with the rest of the UK. Lots of choices and most of the UK mainland is connected. No hassle with security / car parking. Plus as a bonus if using the car travel times are tailored to suit the individual.
On a serious note:- At least Flybe gave it a go. Its just a shame the demand is not there.
On a serious note:- At least Flybe gave it a go. Its just a shame the demand is not there.
Yes, they gave it a go. But, the question is ,"why ?" I said at the time (like many others) that it was not a serious attempt at establishing air services from Bournemouth (in parallel with Southampton), that it would not last, & that it would all end in tears. Moreover, that it was simply an attempt to extract a better deal from Southampton. Which is what happened.
There is the demand from Bournemouth's hinterland; but, ONLY if Southampton was not situated so close & was not so attractive to BEE.
There is NOT the demand for parallel services from both - which any fool could, & did, tell BEE !
There is the demand from Bournemouth's hinterland; but, ONLY if Southampton was not situated so close & was not so attractive to BEE.
There is NOT the demand for parallel services from both - which any fool could, & did, tell BEE !
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LGS6753
No way is Fawley as close to BOH as it is to SOU your absolutely stupid if you think that is the case!
And if anyone on here thinks that having the Port of Poole nearby and even dare to compare it with the Port of Southampton is dreaming their is absolutely no comparison and the fact that Poole has one of the largest natural harbours means sod all because it hardly generates much business for the wider community as it does with the Port of Southampton.
No way is Fawley as close to BOH as it is to SOU your absolutely stupid if you think that is the case!
And if anyone on here thinks that having the Port of Poole nearby and even dare to compare it with the Port of Southampton is dreaming their is absolutely no comparison and the fact that Poole has one of the largest natural harbours means sod all because it hardly generates much business for the wider community as it does with the Port of Southampton.
Canberra97,
If you intend to insult me, please try and do it gramatically. (It's 'you're' - short for 'you are', rather than 'your' - belonging to you; and in the context you are using it, the word is 'there', not 'their').
My observation on the proximity of BOH to Fawley was based on the map - Google tells me, now that I have consulted it, that the shortest route from Fawley Gate 2 to BOH is 26.9 miles and to SOU 19.2 miles. What I said was:
Thus indicating that it was guesswork, and "almost as close", not "nearer".
Secondly, I did not compare the ports of Poole and Southampton. I merely pointed out the proximity to BOH of the Port of Poole, which has a ferry terminal, a freight business, and pleasure craft construction, to say nothing of the private owners who keep their craft there. I made no allusion to the importance of the Port of Poole to air traffic demand.
If you intend to insult me, please try and do it gramatically. (It's 'you're' - short for 'you are', rather than 'your' - belonging to you; and in the context you are using it, the word is 'there', not 'their').
My observation on the proximity of BOH to Fawley was based on the map - Google tells me, now that I have consulted it, that the shortest route from Fawley Gate 2 to BOH is 26.9 miles and to SOU 19.2 miles. What I said was:
I would guess it is almost as close to BOH as to SOU.
Secondly, I did not compare the ports of Poole and Southampton. I merely pointed out the proximity to BOH of the Port of Poole, which has a ferry terminal, a freight business, and pleasure craft construction, to say nothing of the private owners who keep their craft there. I made no allusion to the importance of the Port of Poole to air traffic demand.