BMI

[PAXboy]

Dan Air 87

My thoughts are with the BD employees who despite the outlook have had a narrow escape from joining VS.

From my pax point of view - I am only sad that VS were not able to buy BD years ago when they first wanted to.

I can still hear the whining of VS that they were unable to get bmi and no doubt they are preparing their a/c for the latest slogan.

If IAG had been defeated by VS then they would be whining. It's called capitalism!

I hope that BD's brand will survive

It won't. It can't. We are in the middle of the worst recession since the 30s.

but all I would like to know is where did BD go so wrong? I think it was when they bought British Med that it may have started but I will be interested to hear others.

Sorry but it was long before that. They were an old fashioned airline. Built on deeply hierarchical lines. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. They were unable to break into the long haul (not for want of trying, I know) but once the LCCs came along - their goose was cooked and it was only a matter of time.

If LH had fully integrated them - then jobs would still exist - but they tried to keep the brand going and separate brands cost a lot of money.

I'm sorry to be harsh but that's how I see it. The intransigence of MB in not selling to RB, has led (almost directly) to where they are today.

[StoneyBridge Radar]

The fact I can save £2500 on my first class tickets to Aus by going Qatar from MAN vs LHR to Qantas/BA makes it a more attractive offer nowadays.

The fact Qatar don't have first class on the MEL no doubt helps too...

[JSCL]

Take Emirates then. £5308 return random dates next year when it'd cost £7563 return using BA via LHR.

The price differences become clear and Emirates flying to more UK airports than Qatar (I think).

[airhumberside]

If regional is part of the deal, the price drops.

Nothing in the IAG press release about that. They make it clear they don't want it, but only baby leads to a price reduction if not sold separately

I guess IAG feel they could successfully sell regional if the current deal falls through

[airhumberside]

The reason that IAG will pay less money if Regional and Baby are part of the deal is the cost of closing them down which IAG will probably do immediately if they are in that position

IAG's press release says nothing about a price reduction if regional is included - only baby. So I guess they feel they could successfully sell regional if the current deal falls through

[macdo]

I would be very sad to see the rump of Business Air go to the wall, but in reality, is there any long term future for a small independent airline based in the NE of Scotland in the current financial climate?

[Flypuppy]

Macdo,

I believe that Regional has a good, medium and long term future. There is no need for despondency at this stage. It is my understanding that financing arrangements are in hand and should be in place by the first week of January.

[Skipness One Echo]

If there were really lucrative long haul routes not yet served by BA, they would have moved short-haul capacity to LCY/LGW to accommodate them at LHR.

Remember that this was tried when they built the Gatwick hub. The key take out was that moving certain routes to LGW left too many high yield passengers stayed behind at LHR and flew with someone else. Hence to have long haul to work at LHR, you need a certain amount of feed from a certain number of places. There is a critical mass if you like, and having that two hub strategy made that a bit of an old mess I'm afraid.

I expect BD cabin crew will remain a separate fleet.

BASSA have caused enough bother, I would expect them to be added into Mixed Fleet, certainly not become part of the more "senior" cadres.

I was amazed to learn recently that BA now operate all services on LHR BCN and Iberia don't fly the route!!

O & D as well as feeding BA long haul whereas I think IB are trying to get everything outside Madrid away from mainline. Sound familiar?

A321 are staying for now.

In fairness, half have already left the fleet as the A319s come on line.

[4468]

So, now we know IAG are the buyer, do BMI crew prefer the idea of integration into BA mainline, or a new standalone airline called BA Express?

Pros and cons??

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by davidjohnson6

There is also the thing known as the train. which has largely killed off O&D air passengers from both MAN and MME to London.

This is a recurring myth, that O&D passengers to Heathrow are only heading into Central London. Where do you think all those people coming round the M25 into Heathrow are coming from ? Certainly not from anywhere that finds getting to Euston or Kings Cross straightforward. Our office is near Windsor; to get to Manchester by train, it actually takes you longer to get from office to Euston than the train from Euston to Manchester, for anyone coming from Manchester a day return to us by train is actually impractical. The same is true for all the high-income dwellers (alas not me) BA Gold Card holders who live in the Thames Valley or Surrey. So there continues to be a significant demand.

[brian_dromey]

I guess that BA could locate all domestic services at T1, or at least the check-in and boarding for those services. Maybe they could do something similar to IE where onward passengers disembark via the rear stairs, into a bus, where you are taken to flight connections. I know bussing is not always popular, but it may allow BA more flexibility.

[Sir George Cayley]

BA's 734s at LGW (still EOG?) must be getting a bit tired by now, shirley?

Would a BA branded BMi base make any sense? Would it release BA crew to help fill any gaps when the big stuff arrives?

Just 'blue sky' thinking.

SGC

[Skipness One Echo]

AOG not EOG....

[west lakes]

I'm struggling with the fascination that following the take over that BM & BA would be integrated.
IAG will at that stage own 3 airlines so why must they integrate two of them? If that were the case there would also be a case to integrate BA and Iberia.

In some cases it could be seen as a better option to keep the 3 airlines as seperate operational and financial entities to have 3 potential profit streams.
If nothing else I doubt BA would have the resources to fill the LHR slots with aircraft and crew and moving staff from LGW would be a logistical challenge and costly.

[dublinaviator]

Originally Posted by airhumberside

Nothing in the IAG press release about that. They make it clear they don't want it, but only baby leads to a price reduction if not sold separately

According to today's Irish Times:

"Lufthansa has an option to sell both the BMI Baby and BMI Regional businesses before completion of the transaction.

Ideally, IAG does not want to buy either business. Mr Walsh said “detailed” talks have taken place with interested parties in relation to BMI Regional and some “early discussions” in relation to BMI Baby.

If IAG acquires these two divisions, the price of the transaction will be reduced significantly."

Heathrow to Ireland routes to stay if BMI is bought - The Irish Times - Fri, Dec 23, 2011

-

As for all the talk of BMI being 'absorbed' into BA, Willie Walsh has clarified to The Irish Times what will happen:

Mr Walsh said IAG will retain the BMI brand in the “short term” at least but said BMI’s long-haul services from Heathrow would be rebranded under the BA banner.

“BMI has good recognition in the UK, Ireland and some other places in Europe but it’s not a global brand,” he explained.

[LD12986]

I'm struggling with the fascination that following the take over that BM & BA would be integrated.
IAG will at that stage own 3 airlines so why must they integrate two of them? If that were the case there would also be a case to integrate BA and Iberia.

Because BA and Iberia operate in different markets, London and Madrid, and both have their own brands, areas of market expertise etc. A cross border merger at the operational level of two radically different airlines would be best left filed under "too difficult".

[PAXboy]

4468

... or a new standalone airline called BA Express?

That is VERY funny.

west lakes

I'm struggling with the fascination that following the take over that BM & BA would be integrated.

I think the cost of keeping another company as a financial entity is prohibitive. In any merger/takeover, the objective to reduce costs, is usually aimed at the back office, accounting, pay roll etc.

If BD was a large company, then there is reason to keep it due to the value of routes that it holds. I cannot see that is the case here. So, save money and integrate them, as it saves a whole financial mgmt/accounting/auditing/reporting cycle - each and every year.

LD12986

... merger at the operational level of two radically different airlines would be best left filed under "too difficult".

Certainly. This can wait until the next serious round of cost reduction is needed. They can wait whilst the curent round (pensions/pay/etc) goes through. When they have seen how the merger has gone overall, then they can consider this. Probably not for 5 or 10 years.

[taxi_driver]

Quite difficult to borrow money at present, especially for something high risk like an airline venture. So I would imagine private investors, with aviation experience ala Huxford and co might be having a look.

Bmi regional, without the Bmi bit could struggle. Would they stay in the Star Alliance, no more LHR routes for the parent company, how do they brand themselves...

Wasn't Graeme Ross, part of the new consortium, working for Eastern until recently.

[Count von Altibar]

There isn't a case to integrate BA and Iberia that doesn't make sense. However, there is a compelling case to integrate bmi into BA or the BA brand. The losses need to be made to disappear and that will be done most likely through integration and re-jigging of the routes/slots. BA will get stuck into sorting it all out unlike Lufthansa, they'll have been planning for this opportunity for a long time.

[Dan Air 87]

It would be great to have LGW with its own identity again. I agree that the 734's are showing their age but the crews out of LGW are first class and I have nothing but praise for them at all levels.