BAA confirms it will sell Edinburgh!
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Joe,
I would be interested in seeing the up to date PAX stats on routes that are served from both EDI and GLA just to compare them. Do you have that data to hand as opposed to me having to trawl through the CAA stats? Cheers
I would be interested in seeing the up to date PAX stats on routes that are served from both EDI and GLA just to compare them. Do you have that data to hand as opposed to me having to trawl through the CAA stats? Cheers
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Not many routes that directly compete and virtually none on a like for like representation in terms of frequency etc ( ie EWR EDI is twice daily, GLA once etc). Rough figures from CAA provisional Sept figures 2011
Route Edinburgh/ Glasgow Int /Glasgow PIK
Paphos 4500 7147
Berlin 3900 7400
Corfu 2800 5800
Faro 10300 12300 9800
Ibiza 3000 10400 4100
Alicante 12800 21000 10800
Malaga 14900 13300 9500
Reus 800 3000 3600
Palma 24000 30500 13000
Arrecife 4300 8700 4300
Tenerife 9000 18000 10400
Antalya 1700 10400
Dalaman 3700 24500
Bourgas 1200 5300
Copenhagen 3000 1800
Nice 4552 2000
Paris CDG 26500 11000 3900
Cork 3300 2200
Dublin 34000 12100 9400
Venice 3300 700
Malta 4400 1900 2800
Amsterdam 53000 28000
Fuertevent 2400 1800 2900
Las palmas 4500 3600 4400
Newark 17500 9500
Route Edinburgh/ Glasgow Int /Glasgow PIK
Paphos 4500 7147
Berlin 3900 7400
Corfu 2800 5800
Faro 10300 12300 9800
Ibiza 3000 10400 4100
Alicante 12800 21000 10800
Malaga 14900 13300 9500
Reus 800 3000 3600
Palma 24000 30500 13000
Arrecife 4300 8700 4300
Tenerife 9000 18000 10400
Antalya 1700 10400
Dalaman 3700 24500
Bourgas 1200 5300
Copenhagen 3000 1800
Nice 4552 2000
Paris CDG 26500 11000 3900
Cork 3300 2200
Dublin 34000 12100 9400
Venice 3300 700
Malta 4400 1900 2800
Amsterdam 53000 28000
Fuertevent 2400 1800 2900
Las palmas 4500 3600 4400
Newark 17500 9500
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Thanks CC. These figures do show that the Glasgow Airports have a real lead in PAX numbers in relation to the 'bucket and spade' flights. It would be interesting to compare the UK Domestic Market between EDI and GLA
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Don't get TOO excited, most examples are High Street charters , can we have SCHEDULED International? And an explanation why EDI has more SCHEDULED International pax than both GLA/PIK combined?
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The only person getting excited seems to be you ! Capitalisation is very rarely called for.
Lets just change the goal posts to suit and only stick to scheduled passengers , why would we do that? does none of the other throughput count ? The duplicated flights is what was asked for. And of course the scheduled component of these duplicated routes will be included in these totals.
With the figures shown (and most of he PIK figures are scheduled) - the totals for GLA and PIK on the duplicated routes are very similar if not outweighed in some cases. EDI total pax are higher overall because there are huge number of exclusive scheduled routes from there. If you're concerned about fairness- how fair is that ?
If you can think of any other directly duplicated routes between GLA and EDI, be it scheduled or otherwise- feel free to show their trends....
Lets just change the goal posts to suit and only stick to scheduled passengers , why would we do that? does none of the other throughput count ? The duplicated flights is what was asked for. And of course the scheduled component of these duplicated routes will be included in these totals.
With the figures shown (and most of he PIK figures are scheduled) - the totals for GLA and PIK on the duplicated routes are very similar if not outweighed in some cases. EDI total pax are higher overall because there are huge number of exclusive scheduled routes from there. If you're concerned about fairness- how fair is that ?
If you can think of any other directly duplicated routes between GLA and EDI, be it scheduled or otherwise- feel free to show their trends....
Last edited by CabinCrewe; 21st Oct 2011 at 22:25.
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concerned about fairness
the M8, about fairness.. Isn't fairness the reason why BAA were required
to sell either airport in the first place?
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Gents, the argument about fairness is pointless because fairness doesn't enter into it. I mean, is it fair, that despite living 2 minutes from an international airport with a 9800ft runway (PIK) I have to travel to GLA 2-3 X a week (and on occasion to EDI) to fly around the UK and Europe? No, iit is not but its about business and business whether we like it or not will dictate where we can fly from and to. Were damn lucky to have three airports in an 80 mile corridor west to east.
Next year we will potentially have 3 competing airports with 3 different owners (or will we?) and this has to be good for competition and hopefully will result in more services, choice and lower fares for people in central Scotland. At the moment there is no competition on some routes (BA GLA - LHR and BE GLA - BHX are just two) and prices have rocketed on these very popular routes. I know because I have to pay for them!
The most dynamic. entrepreunerial and effective airport management teams will win at the end of the day provided they are backed up by their owners. Interesting times ahead for GLA, PIK and EDI. Hopefully they'll be no casualties.
Next year we will potentially have 3 competing airports with 3 different owners (or will we?) and this has to be good for competition and hopefully will result in more services, choice and lower fares for people in central Scotland. At the moment there is no competition on some routes (BA GLA - LHR and BE GLA - BHX are just two) and prices have rocketed on these very popular routes. I know because I have to pay for them!
The most dynamic. entrepreunerial and effective airport management teams will win at the end of the day provided they are backed up by their owners. Interesting times ahead for GLA, PIK and EDI. Hopefully they'll be no casualties.
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Joe, I think you're missing the key points that 1/ the Glasgow area has a higher holidaying population than Edinburgh so routes such as Virgin to Orlando and Emirates to Dubai (as well as the European bucket and spade destinations) will always work better from GLA than EDI and 2/ the Glasgow area has a much higher ethnic population than Edinburgh so Emirates to Asia (via Dubai) will always work better from GLA and 3/ Edinburgh is seen as an inbound tourist destination (it is the Scottish capital) so routes attracting inbound as well as outbound traffic (European cities, CO New York service etc) will work better from EDI than GLA and, finally, 4/ that Edinburgh has become the Scottish business capital so European business routes will work better from EDI. I get the distinct impression that no one contributing to this thread has ever worked in planning or commercial for an actual airline because frankly, if they had, they'd recognise that this is all from page one of "airline planning for dummies".
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Some good points WW and I think some of these points have actually come out in some previous comments although not as succinctly as you put it. And yes I am not in airline planning or commercial - just a frequent business traveller so the facts from those 'in the know' and without 'airport bias' are always welcome. Thanks.
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Soon, in Scotland we'll have EDI, PIK & GLA all competing with each other, which can only be good.
At EDI, the new owner is unlikely to tolerate the way 'things are done' there for long. This can only be good! The place has needed a shake up for years, and that's putting it mildly.
There is also the possibility that APD will become a devolved issue. If this happens, Mr Salmond wont waste any time in slashing (or eliminating) this levy. This would really encourage direct flights at all three central belt airfields.
So, it could be quite an interesting next few years.
At EDI, the new owner is unlikely to tolerate the way 'things are done' there for long. This can only be good! The place has needed a shake up for years, and that's putting it mildly.
There is also the possibility that APD will become a devolved issue. If this happens, Mr Salmond wont waste any time in slashing (or eliminating) this levy. This would really encourage direct flights at all three central belt airfields.
So, it could be quite an interesting next few years.
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routes attracting inbound as well as outbound traffic (European cities, CO New York service etc) will work better from EDI than GLA
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Joe, I think you're missing the key points that 1/ the Glasgow area has a higher holidaying population than Edinburgh so routes such as Virgin to Orlando and Emirates to Dubai (as well as the European bucket and spade destinations) will always work better from GLA than EDI and 2/ the Glasgow area has a much higher ethnic population than Edinburgh so Emirates to Asia (via Dubai) will always work better from GLA
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Joe is to EDI what David Reid was to PIK, you can't argue with that certainty. Incidentally GLA-MAN is back to being a monopoly too since BD pulled the plug, GLA-LCY always has been. The greater frequency, choice and variety lies with EDI on legacy European routes. Joe makes some good points whuch were arguably true in the 80s and 90s but the picture he paints is one of a world long gone.
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ACN / PCN values
I think that a heavy health warning needs to be placed on the ACN / PCN classification system. For a start, it can be based on an awful lot of assumptions, particularly about the strength of the underlying sub-grade. These assumptions can significantly chance the declared PCN value declared by airport operators.
Secondly, if anyone thinks that airlines pay any great heed to the declared PCN value when they are planning to start a new or upgraded service to a particular airport are sadly delusional. What they want to know is can the service be profitable. In most cases - the new Code F aircraft apart - they expect that the airfield infrastructure should be capable of supporting their operation. If it ain't, then frankly most find somewhere else to fly to. But in my experience, the decalred PCN v the PCN of the aircraft they are operating generally doesn't even come anywhere on their rader.
Secondly, if anyone thinks that airlines pay any great heed to the declared PCN value when they are planning to start a new or upgraded service to a particular airport are sadly delusional. What they want to know is can the service be profitable. In most cases - the new Code F aircraft apart - they expect that the airfield infrastructure should be capable of supporting their operation. If it ain't, then frankly most find somewhere else to fly to. But in my experience, the decalred PCN v the PCN of the aircraft they are operating generally doesn't even come anywhere on their rader.
