BELFAST AIRPORT INTERNATIONAL
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And you'd be in a position to offer an opinion on that!! Also a "case" which strongly argues if Dublin and its agencies used the £millions of yearly tourism funding fed to it by Belfast for the intended and legit purpose of promoting tourists flying to Belfast there would indeed be EVERY economic reason for losing APD in NI quick-smart!
Exactly, on that basis the Dublin government ought to bring back APD to improve its finances. Until it gets axed nobody can prove it will or won't help grow passenger numbers but I sure as hell don't believe it helps, particularly as such a high percentage of flights are domestic
NI financial mess is like throwing stones in glass houses saying what you think the ROI should do.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Antrim
Posts: 1,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EI-EIDW
There wouldn't really be a crisis in stormont if the relevant political parties had stuck to the agreements they made, the budget would be up and running now.
On the subject of APD yes of course revenue comes in as a result and indeed there maybe other sorts of incentives that could work, but until its removed we won't know the effect, but the level of passengers from NI using DUB even for UK domestic and popular summer sun routes must surely be evidence, and not just border counties passengers, I live north of Belfast and I know people who use DUB for BCN, ALC, AGP - all of which are served by BFS and BHD. In those instances we don't even get the APD ! Also while I appreciate FR are masters of hyperbole its worth taking note despite the huge passenger numbers they achieved, they stated some of the reason for quiting BHD was APD, FR being the single biggest driver of growth at DUB.
There wouldn't really be a crisis in stormont if the relevant political parties had stuck to the agreements they made, the budget would be up and running now.
On the subject of APD yes of course revenue comes in as a result and indeed there maybe other sorts of incentives that could work, but until its removed we won't know the effect, but the level of passengers from NI using DUB even for UK domestic and popular summer sun routes must surely be evidence, and not just border counties passengers, I live north of Belfast and I know people who use DUB for BCN, ALC, AGP - all of which are served by BFS and BHD. In those instances we don't even get the APD ! Also while I appreciate FR are masters of hyperbole its worth taking note despite the huge passenger numbers they achieved, they stated some of the reason for quiting BHD was APD, FR being the single biggest driver of growth at DUB.
Last edited by mart901; 28th Jul 2015 at 18:55. Reason: more info
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: County Armagh
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BFS Dude, haven't heard any rumour regarding Ryanair. I would think that route announcements and seat sales would be first before any work would be going on at check in desks etc. You never know though.
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Belfast
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dublin apologists
Good to see the we love Dublin brigade on here. Government owned, government supported, lots of money from Tourism Ireland etc etc etc. The NI airports have very little chance against that kind of competition. Plus useless politicians on the hill who are more interested in flags, the past and where you walk than pushing this place forward. Would be great to see Ryanair here and there is a bit of a rumour going around that they may commence in the winter schedule though I doubt that one.
Good to see the we love Dublin brigade on here. Government owned, government supported, lots of money from Tourism Ireland etc etc etc. The NI airports have very little chance against that kind of competition. Plus useless politicians on the hill who are more interested in flags, the past and where you walk than pushing this place forward. Would be great to see Ryanair here and there is a bit of a rumour going around that they may commence in the winter schedule though I doubt that one.
Unless, and until the electorate start voting in elections on real policies, like the rest of us in UK do, rather than on the basis of flags, traditions and religion then neither the province, nor it's airports, will ever achieve their true potential, as the politicians that are elected have no real incentive do do anything (economically) constructive.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: N Ireland
Age: 55
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Astonished that anyone looking from the aviation / route development point of view would suggest that axing APD would not be a good thing 
Anyone who wanted the Belfast airports to be able to compete on a more level playing field anyway......
Our relatively small city's airports now have almost 7m pax pa despite us probably suffering more than any other UK airport from the curse of APD. Why would much more not be achieved if it was axed?
Always sad to see NI pax using DUB for routes served from BFS/BHD, guess you can't blame people for choosing the cheapest option though
Re our politicians,
Anyone who wanted the Belfast airports to be able to compete on a more level playing field anyway......
Our relatively small city's airports now have almost 7m pax pa despite us probably suffering more than any other UK airport from the curse of APD. Why would much more not be achieved if it was axed?
Always sad to see NI pax using DUB for routes served from BFS/BHD, guess you can't blame people for choosing the cheapest option though
Re our politicians,
Last edited by madgav; 31st Jul 2015 at 07:14.
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Antrim
Posts: 1,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exactly - price is the big driver. It would work the other way if it was cheaper here, remember the supermarkets with empty shelves in NI because so many people were driving up to shop en-masse!
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On the subject of APD yes of course revenue comes in as a result and indeed there maybe other sorts of incentives that could work, but until its removed we won't know the effect, but the level of passengers from NI using DUB even for UK domestic and popular summer sun routes must surely be evidence, and not just border counties passengers, I live north of Belfast and I know people who use DUB for BCN, ALC, AGP - all of which are served by BFS and BHD. In those instances we don't even get the APD ! Also while I appreciate FR are masters of hyperbole its worth taking note despite the huge passenger numbers they achieved, they stated some of the reason for quiting BHD was APD, FR being the single biggest driver of growth at DUB.
Yes people use DUB and that will not change with APD, as for been cheaper very skeptical on that, very steep fares ex DUB. People sometime prefer to fly with x airline and will travel to do it. I'm sure there is plenty from the NW using BFS but don't see moaning about that.
You cannot give something for nothing when NI can't afford it, you will not see an influx of tourists into the region by the big carriers as there is not enough to be made. If you got commitments to open other than sun routes then maybe scrap it but until them it is pointless for the NI public as they will NOT see lower fares to Spain etc.
Astonished that anyone looking from the aviation / route development point of view would suggest that axing APD would not be a good thing
Anyone who wanted the Belfast airports to be able to compete on a more level playing field anyway......
Our relatively small city's airports now have almost 7m pax pa despite us probably suffering more than any other UK airport from the curse of APD. Why would much more not be achieved if it was axed?
Always sad to see NI pax using DUB, especially for routes served from BFS/BHD, guess you can't blame people for choosing the cheapest option though
Re our politicians,
Anyone who wanted the Belfast airports to be able to compete on a more level playing field anyway......
Our relatively small city's airports now have almost 7m pax pa despite us probably suffering more than any other UK airport from the curse of APD. Why would much more not be achieved if it was axed?
Always sad to see NI pax using DUB, especially for routes served from BFS/BHD, guess you can't blame people for choosing the cheapest option though
Re our politicians,
As for pax using DUB, it always happened it's just the daa got a clever marketing campaign together and by has it got the reaction intended across NI. The whole place knows what DUB has to offer now and numbers will grow more.
Even EK hired somebody to drive NI business onto DUB-DXB!
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Greater Aldergrove
Age: 52
Posts: 851
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Northern Ireland is a victim of it's rather stupid tribalism. I would suggest that a chimpanzee could get elected in a staunchly Catholic or Protestant area of Belfast provided they were seen to attend the correct place of worship!
Unless, and until the electorate start voting in elections on real policies, like the rest of us in UK do, rather than on the basis of flags, traditions and religion then neither the province, nor it's airports, will ever achieve their true potential, as the politicians that are elected have no real incentive do do anything (economically) constructive.
Unless, and until the electorate start voting in elections on real policies, like the rest of us in UK do, rather than on the basis of flags, traditions and religion then neither the province, nor it's airports, will ever achieve their true potential, as the politicians that are elected have no real incentive do do anything (economically) constructive.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,782
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Couple of comments on NI pax using Dublin Airport;
Fact is many many people in NI live as V close to Dublin airport as they do either Belfast Airport. Hence, Dublin just as logical. Examples include Newry and Enniskillen.
Dublin has far far more destinations than Belfast has hence technically NI will never be in the market for this business. Hence, I believe that 90% of NI fliers using Dublin are going after these non served routes, or find Dublin as convenient distance wise as Belfast.
It is the other 10% and clearly I'm estimating these numbers, and there is limited hard data to explain this... The other 10% are being attracted by Ryanair low fares etc. Such significant numbers on DUB LHR are a worry if only point to point but again many could find Dublin more local or convenient. Let's also not overlook that many many people travel from south of the border to Belfast airports to fly from here. You see plenty of southern registrations in the BFS car park for example.
I also believe that the DAA advertising here is a waste of money. I check dub for the reasons above ie routes direct bur not from here....
My point in all this is I don't see Dublin as such a big deal, not to the extent it is made. NI airports handled over 7m pax last year not bad going for our population and good in proportion to Dublin. We are not doing so bad ...
Fact is many many people in NI live as V close to Dublin airport as they do either Belfast Airport. Hence, Dublin just as logical. Examples include Newry and Enniskillen.
Dublin has far far more destinations than Belfast has hence technically NI will never be in the market for this business. Hence, I believe that 90% of NI fliers using Dublin are going after these non served routes, or find Dublin as convenient distance wise as Belfast.
It is the other 10% and clearly I'm estimating these numbers, and there is limited hard data to explain this... The other 10% are being attracted by Ryanair low fares etc. Such significant numbers on DUB LHR are a worry if only point to point but again many could find Dublin more local or convenient. Let's also not overlook that many many people travel from south of the border to Belfast airports to fly from here. You see plenty of southern registrations in the BFS car park for example.
I also believe that the DAA advertising here is a waste of money. I check dub for the reasons above ie routes direct bur not from here....
My point in all this is I don't see Dublin as such a big deal, not to the extent it is made. NI airports handled over 7m pax last year not bad going for our population and good in proportion to Dublin. We are not doing so bad ...
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Belfast, Ireland
Posts: 481
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
People in Ireland whether you live in the Republic or the north will use the airports that are convenient and that has the destinations available as well as price.
As someone who lives in Belfast, I regularly use Dublin airport as well as Belfast`s airports. It`s easy to drive on the motorway to Dublin airport.
By public transport, its`s as easy to hop on the hourly Dublin airport express bus as it is to BFS from Belfast city bus station.
People need to realise that Belfast airports are regional airports and are best compared with the likes of Cork and Shannon airports rather than Dublin.
Indeed Cork and Limerick are a lot further away from Dublin airport than Belfast is and has the same issue of Munster passengers using Dublin airport as well as Cork and Shannon airports because of the range of destinations on offer from Dublin as well as the convenience of using the motorways by car or hopping on the Dublin airport express busses.
The fact is, there is only one major airport in Ireland. It`s a small island and all motorways lead to Dublin making it convenient for most people.
As someone who lives in Belfast, I regularly use Dublin airport as well as Belfast`s airports. It`s easy to drive on the motorway to Dublin airport.
By public transport, its`s as easy to hop on the hourly Dublin airport express bus as it is to BFS from Belfast city bus station.
People need to realise that Belfast airports are regional airports and are best compared with the likes of Cork and Shannon airports rather than Dublin.
Indeed Cork and Limerick are a lot further away from Dublin airport than Belfast is and has the same issue of Munster passengers using Dublin airport as well as Cork and Shannon airports because of the range of destinations on offer from Dublin as well as the convenience of using the motorways by car or hopping on the Dublin airport express busses.
The fact is, there is only one major airport in Ireland. It`s a small island and all motorways lead to Dublin making it convenient for most people.
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Belfast
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exactly. I know that in my situation of leaving from Omagh - if not taking the car then it's far easier to hop on a bus that drops you right outside Dublin airport in 2 hours than attempt to use public transport to either BFS or BHD. And for over 65s that bus is free as well.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
Posts: 1,080
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The other consideration is the relative strength of the pound against the Euro. When taking families away for the summer, even a £30 difference (which a 99€ vs £99 fare is) will make a difference when 2+ people are travelling. Transport costs for a lot of the market will be relatively similar, but more choice of destinations and frequency from DUB.
3 weeks ago I stayed at Bewleys DUB, I couldn't believe the number of NI registered cars. Easily 30% plus. Maybe more. The islands improved motorway and express coach services to DUB are hurting airports in the South too, ORK is seeing massive leak of catchment to DUB, without APD.
3 weeks ago I stayed at Bewleys DUB, I couldn't believe the number of NI registered cars. Easily 30% plus. Maybe more. The islands improved motorway and express coach services to DUB are hurting airports in the South too, ORK is seeing massive leak of catchment to DUB, without APD.
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The other consideration is the relative strength of the pound against the Euro. When taking families away for the summer, even a £30 difference (which a 99€ vs £99 fare is) will make a difference when 2+ people are travelling. Transport costs for a lot of the market will be relatively similar, but more choice of destinations and frequency from DUB.
3 weeks ago I stayed at Bewleys DUB, I couldn't believe the number of NI registered cars. Easily 30% plus. Maybe more. The islands improved motorway and express coach services to DUB are hurting airports in the South too, ORK is seeing massive leak of catchment to DUB, without APD.
3 weeks ago I stayed at Bewleys DUB, I couldn't believe the number of NI registered cars. Easily 30% plus. Maybe more. The islands improved motorway and express coach services to DUB are hurting airports in the South too, ORK is seeing massive leak of catchment to DUB, without APD.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NI
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Indeed Belfast International will never catch-up with Dublin in terms of tourist and visting relatives / friends traffic. We missed our chance to take the lead in the 1970s and it's too late now.
Opportunities for focus:
1. Assisting the on-site FBOs that are independently capturing corporate and US military stop-over traffic;
2. Capturing more pass-through traffic. Turkish Cargo choosing Shannon for refuelling their US cargo services is an example of lack of initiative at Belfast, as is Ethiopian choosing Dublin for refuelling.
Neither of these are relevant to general passenger traffic but provide a steady income stream.
Opportunities for focus:
1. Assisting the on-site FBOs that are independently capturing corporate and US military stop-over traffic;
2. Capturing more pass-through traffic. Turkish Cargo choosing Shannon for refuelling their US cargo services is an example of lack of initiative at Belfast, as is Ethiopian choosing Dublin for refuelling.
Neither of these are relevant to general passenger traffic but provide a steady income stream.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm currently in Milan and i flew from Dublin even tho I'm 20 minutes from both BHD and BFS. Why did i fly from Dub...... because there was no flight option from home. I flew EI into MXP. I could also have flown EI into LIN or FR into BGY. Is simple. If you want the local airports to be supported you need to offer the routes. This trip is every 6 weeks and id love to fly from NI but it will be DUB until i have a choice from home.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: N Ireland
Age: 55
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Of course there is a flight option from home, via a connection to a hub airport that can offer many many more routes than BFS/BHD/DUB ever will.
I've used DUB in the past and hated the 2 hour drive to the airport, but the real killer was arriving 'home' on a flight from the US at 5am in the dark, tired and jetlagged, going through baggage claim / passport control / etc, and then realising I had a 2 hour drive home from the airport.
Personally I don't mind a connection so long as I end up landing at my local airport.
I know a few people who habitually use DUB and it's for cheap Ryanair fares to sun routes that are already well served from Belfast. For them the deciding factor is cost since BFS/BHD is just as convenient from where they live. Some valid points made in the posts above no doubt, but I still believe that many people are heading south for this reason alone. Removing APD could tip the balance in our favour for some passengers and could make some borderline routes viable.
Yes it works both ways to some extent and I'm sure plenty of people from ROI use Belfast airports, guess we just don't see those figures.
Finally yes I think we should recognise that our local airports aren't doing too bad. Hopefully we will continue to see passenger numbers and the variety of routes offered increase over the next few years
I've used DUB in the past and hated the 2 hour drive to the airport, but the real killer was arriving 'home' on a flight from the US at 5am in the dark, tired and jetlagged, going through baggage claim / passport control / etc, and then realising I had a 2 hour drive home from the airport
. Personally I don't mind a connection so long as I end up landing at my local airport.
I know a few people who habitually use DUB and it's for cheap Ryanair fares to sun routes that are already well served from Belfast. For them the deciding factor is cost since BFS/BHD is just as convenient from where they live. Some valid points made in the posts above no doubt, but I still believe that many people are heading south for this reason alone. Removing APD could tip the balance in our favour for some passengers and could make some borderline routes viable.
Yes it works both ways to some extent and I'm sure plenty of people from ROI use Belfast airports, guess we just don't see those figures.
Finally yes I think we should recognise that our local airports aren't doing too bad. Hopefully we will continue to see passenger numbers and the variety of routes offered increase over the next few years
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: N.Ireland
Posts: 1,753
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some good points raised in the posts above
Yes removing APD could just tip the balance in making a route feasible at BFS. With 80% of pax leaving the NI airports fly to domestic GB could I suggest that APD is only removed from European destinations.........phased in if MLA's have no money
Yes removing APD could just tip the balance in making a route feasible at BFS. With 80% of pax leaving the NI airports fly to domestic GB could I suggest that APD is only removed from European destinations.........phased in if MLA's have no money