AA in trouble?
Join Date: Jul 2002
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I wonder what ol' 411A would have made of this?
Join Date: Jun 2011
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This whole thing is a joke. The pilots bet the whole company on a pay rise.. its totally dumb - don't these people see whats happening in the real world? They should close the doors and start over.
Join Date: Nov 2006
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close the doors
When you get the knowledge and the pain that it takes to become an airline pilot. You can talk! Pilots are grossly underpaid so that you can fly for $100, a seat. 
Join Date: Jun 2011
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my friend thats the most stupid thing anyone could say. It costs a lot of money to become a professional at many things - what about a doctor or a dentist or even some professional sports people. The over riding point is that you have to understand the market you are in and things get priced accordingly. These pilots are holding the entire company to randsom and putting at risk not just the executive but also the smaller people who perhaps clean the offices, man the phones or maintain the aircraft. All for what? You know what is great about USA is that you are free - and that means these poor pilots were free to not be pilots or free to work at another airline.
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Pieceof cake,
I don't understand your POV. You say (a) the pilots are holding the company to ransom (I assume that's by leaving in droves) yet you also say (b) that the wonderful thing about the US is that pilots can do just that.
If my pension pot was about to be decimated you can bet your bottom dollar that I'd be out like a flash too. How is that holding the company to ransom?
I don't understand your POV. You say (a) the pilots are holding the company to ransom (I assume that's by leaving in droves) yet you also say (b) that the wonderful thing about the US is that pilots can do just that.
If my pension pot was about to be decimated you can bet your bottom dollar that I'd be out like a flash too. How is that holding the company to ransom?
Join Date: Jun 2011
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@28L - I don't think this is too hard to understand?:-
“ Unions for the pilots, flight attendants and ground workers want to recoup at least part of the $1.6 billion in annual concessions made to avert bankruptcy in 2003, while American has said it has an $800 million-a-year labor-cost disadvantage to rivals..."
So these guys want to squeeze AMR dry leaving it uncompetitive. Or have I missed something?
“ Unions for the pilots, flight attendants and ground workers want to recoup at least part of the $1.6 billion in annual concessions made to avert bankruptcy in 2003, while American has said it has an $800 million-a-year labor-cost disadvantage to rivals..."
So these guys want to squeeze AMR dry leaving it uncompetitive. Or have I missed something?
Join Date: Jun 2011
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You know forget AMR the whole industry is in a hole, and why?
When you read this how is it ever good :-
By Steve Rothwell and Mathew Carr
Oct. 4 (Bloomberg) -- Airline profits forecast to total $28
billion in the three years through 2012 may be unsustainable as
over-capacity and looming regulatory costs weigh on margins, the
head of the IATA industry association said.
Airlines will generate net income equal to 0.8 percent of
revenue next year, a margin that may shrink further if economic
growth slows to less than 2.4 percent, Tony Tyler, chief
executive officer of the International Air Transport Association
since July 1, said in an interview in London.
“The natural condition of the airline industry is crisis,”
Tyler said. “Occasionally, we’ve had short periods where the
conditions are quite benign and everything goes quite well, and
the danger is to believe that’s normal -- and that’s wrong.”
When you read this how is it ever good :-
By Steve Rothwell and Mathew Carr
Oct. 4 (Bloomberg) -- Airline profits forecast to total $28
billion in the three years through 2012 may be unsustainable as
over-capacity and looming regulatory costs weigh on margins, the
head of the IATA industry association said.
Airlines will generate net income equal to 0.8 percent of
revenue next year, a margin that may shrink further if economic
growth slows to less than 2.4 percent, Tony Tyler, chief
executive officer of the International Air Transport Association
since July 1, said in an interview in London.
“The natural condition of the airline industry is crisis,”
Tyler said. “Occasionally, we’ve had short periods where the
conditions are quite benign and everything goes quite well, and
the danger is to believe that’s normal -- and that’s wrong.”
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: USA
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Time for reregulation.Oh sure Bubba and his overweight wife and kids will not be able to fly and alot of ERJ/CRJ pilots will be out of a job but that is the only way an airline can be restored.They need to charge what it actuslly costs to fly me or you to places we need to go.
It is always amusing to watch how the anti unionists will drop everything at the doorstep of the unions. Let us not forget United 232 & Eastern 401.What did they have in common? Half empty wide bodies flying on domestic routes.That certainly was not a union decision but a management one.
While the "shared sacrifice"mantra is good for the airline "shared prosperity" becomes "putting the squeeze on airlines"? Give me a break!
It is always amusing to watch how the anti unionists will drop everything at the doorstep of the unions. Let us not forget United 232 & Eastern 401.What did they have in common? Half empty wide bodies flying on domestic routes.That certainly was not a union decision but a management one.
While the "shared sacrifice"mantra is good for the airline "shared prosperity" becomes "putting the squeeze on airlines"? Give me a break!
Paxing All Over The World
jeff748
There are many, many factors at work that have already claimed many, many other companies (in Aviation and in regular commerce)
TWA lasted 75 years
AA have done very well but they, like millions of other companies, think that they can always 'fix it' and 'renew' and 'rebuild' and 'expand once again'. The answer is: No. It is impossible to say if they have five or 15 more years left in them but the only certainty is that they will not continue in this form for too much longer. Those that are taking their pensions and bailing now, have learnt the lesson from others.
It can eb said that it is not all the fault of mgmt, because what is happening to AA is just the usual life cycle of a successful company and you cannot expect humans to always learn from the past.
Say what you want, but unions are killing the industry.
- Contracts (for ALL staff) based on how the world was in 1970~1990
- The emergence of LCCs to scythe away an enormous amount of domestic traffic and even feeder to long haul
- Pax desire to pay nothing and the willingness of many companes to provide it
- Regulatory changes undreamt of 25 years ago
- An economic situation that no one thought to see (well, some did but not enough!) and a good five more years of recession yet to come
- The ability of humans to think that, because something has been successful in the past - that the same process will be successsful in the future
- The normal sclerosis that takes hold of any company that has been in operation for 85 years. There is a finite length of time for any corporation or organisation and the those that do not realise they are in the 'well mature' category are in trouble twice over. There are numerous carriers around the world who are in the same place as AA.
- Their website boasts of 900 aircraft and 3,400 rotations a day (inc Eagle + Connections) Looking at the basics, they are now 'well mature'
TWA lasted 75 years
AA have done very well but they, like millions of other companies, think that they can always 'fix it' and 'renew' and 'rebuild' and 'expand once again'. The answer is: No. It is impossible to say if they have five or 15 more years left in them but the only certainty is that they will not continue in this form for too much longer. Those that are taking their pensions and bailing now, have learnt the lesson from others.
It can eb said that it is not all the fault of mgmt, because what is happening to AA is just the usual life cycle of a successful company and you cannot expect humans to always learn from the past.
Join Date: Jun 2011
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You say don’t blame unions but that’s the collective force that is keeping costs where they are. Which is exactly what you Yrecognise when you say its time to start charging people what it actually costs to fly from A to B. There is clearly something wrong with an industry when the front page of London’s FT markets section says “AMR is the only big US national carrier not to have passed through Chapter 11 in the last decade”.
That’s a joke and typically at the core of the problem is wage costs associated with pilots – just look at Aer Lingus.
Frankly whilst being a pilot may mean an investment in ones self and it may be a skilled profession it isn’t immune from the same commercial realities as any other business.
That’s a joke and typically at the core of the problem is wage costs associated with pilots – just look at Aer Lingus.
Frankly whilst being a pilot may mean an investment in ones self and it may be a skilled profession it isn’t immune from the same commercial realities as any other business.
Join Date: May 2009
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Another tidbit about AA
Little bird told me they are giving up on the USPS domestic mail contract because it requires too many folks at corporate to administer the contract. That can't be good...
edit--I believe AA is the largest outfit among the majors doing the bulk of their maintenance in-house. The race to the bottom continues
edit--I believe AA is the largest outfit among the majors doing the bulk of their maintenance in-house. The race to the bottom continues
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typically at the core of the problem is wage costs associated with pilots
So please tell me how you are going to save the airline by cutting pilot pay??
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@yokebearer - those %'s are meaningless in isolation without knowing the detail. After all other staff costing 25% would be a bargain if they generate 99% of revenues. The problem with pilots is that they are just a cost. A necessary one but its not like people choosing AMR on the quality of the flying. Answer this - when flying New York to LA what is the average pilot doing?