Ryanair - 8
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MOL seems to get more 'strange' every day....ready for the rubber room perhaps?
I don't see what is so crazy about this idea. Granted, I think Ryanair may be a decade or two ahead of schedule but I think that it's a foregone conclusion that one day China will make an airplane just well and just as safe as the USA or Europe and likely significantly cheaper.
Ahead of his time, maybe. Crazy? Nope.
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Unsophisticated negotiation skills epitomized!
As if Boeing and Airbus can't see past such a stupid tactic.
In spite of all of the 'nearly there's' The Russians and certainly not the Chinese are yet able to manufacture an aircraft that reaches wester levels of reliability and safety.
In the Russian case the problem is expense of operation. As even Aeroflot admitted, the economics of current Russian airlines just don't compare to Airbusses and Boeings. In such a low-margin industry as low cost airlines there is no way Ryanair could make them work.
And Chinese airliners? Perhaps in 20 years but no way right now. Just look at the AVIC DC9 copy for a perfect example of why you wouldn't do that.
So it does raise a concern that MOL thinks such a stupid negotiation ploy would work. Perhaps Airbus and Boeing should just say 'go right ahead Michael. See the value of MOL's shares plummet then!
As if Boeing and Airbus can't see past such a stupid tactic.
In spite of all of the 'nearly there's' The Russians and certainly not the Chinese are yet able to manufacture an aircraft that reaches wester levels of reliability and safety.
In the Russian case the problem is expense of operation. As even Aeroflot admitted, the economics of current Russian airlines just don't compare to Airbusses and Boeings. In such a low-margin industry as low cost airlines there is no way Ryanair could make them work.
And Chinese airliners? Perhaps in 20 years but no way right now. Just look at the AVIC DC9 copy for a perfect example of why you wouldn't do that.
So it does raise a concern that MOL thinks such a stupid negotiation ploy would work. Perhaps Airbus and Boeing should just say 'go right ahead Michael. See the value of MOL's shares plummet then!
Since the smug O'Leary crowed about how he 'raped' Boeing over aircraft orders immediately after the 11 Sep 2001 terrorist attack, it's hardly surprising that they aren't prepared to offer such low prices to O'Leary's tawdry airline again.
Boeing have obviously learned that "If you sup with the devil you need a long spoon"!
Boeing and Airbus can survive without Ryanair; one wonders whether the converse applies?
Boeing have obviously learned that "If you sup with the devil you need a long spoon"!
Boeing and Airbus can survive without Ryanair; one wonders whether the converse applies?
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BEagle:
'Since the smug O'Leary crowed about how he 'raped' Boeing'
Do you have a source for this qoute please...
'O'Leary's tawdry airline' which flies close on 70M 'tawdry passengers'
'Since the smug O'Leary crowed about how he 'raped' Boeing'
Do you have a source for this qoute please...
'O'Leary's tawdry airline' which flies close on 70M 'tawdry passengers'
Comic Relief and April Fools Day all rolled into one.
MOL is a joke, he mugged Boeing post 9/11 and got a stack of aircraft at rock bottom prices and now he's got the hump because it's back to the real world.
I very much doubt Ryanair will go Chinese or Russian, it's all willy waving if you ask me.
MOL is a joke, he mugged Boeing post 9/11 and got a stack of aircraft at rock bottom prices and now he's got the hump because it's back to the real world.
I very much doubt Ryanair will go Chinese or Russian, it's all willy waving if you ask me.
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planes like cars
I think MOL needs to also think resale value, ie after he has these mystery jets for 5 or 10 years will he be able to sell them for anything? There's a reason BMWs and Mercedes cost more, they hold their value, and that has a huge impact on total cost of ownership calculations..
Of course the manufacturer may offer to buy their own jets back for a fair price, as the leverage they would get from exposure to a Western airline would be huge...
Of course the manufacturer may offer to buy their own jets back for a fair price, as the leverage they would get from exposure to a Western airline would be huge...
Chieftan o'the Pudden Race
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The Pikey is almost certainly speaking with all potential aircraft manufacturers, it's what he's paid to do. But whether the talks will progress into orders, assuming the aircraft are developed and deliverable, is another thing. But will other manufacturers play ball? Unlikely. He's going to be screwed over whatever he buys next. And then there's the cost of retraining - will RYR's pilots be able to afford it?
As for Russians and Chinese building to Western standards. No problem, they have excellent designers and engineers. They've just never had a large enough market for Western style aircraft - until now. They are not going away and every day they improve their products. Their engineers are every bit as capable as Boeing's and they have the full support of their governments - If the same support happens for Boeing or Airbus someone will shout "Foul!"
As for Russians and Chinese building to Western standards. No problem, they have excellent designers and engineers. They've just never had a large enough market for Western style aircraft - until now. They are not going away and every day they improve their products. Their engineers are every bit as capable as Boeing's and they have the full support of their governments - If the same support happens for Boeing or Airbus someone will shout "Foul!"
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Flypuppy
Thanks for the reference re:the shameful comment.
Piltdown Man
Your comments are negated by the use of the term 'Pikey'
MM
Thanks for the reference re:the shameful comment.
Piltdown Man
Your comments are negated by the use of the term 'Pikey'
MM
Last edited by mickyman; 9th Mar 2011 at 13:39.
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BEagle:'Since the smug O'Leary crowed about how he 'raped' Boeing'
It's also in Siobhan Creaton's book, also well worth a read if you can.....you might learn how MOL got so very rich and treats his staff like sh1t. Not a tabloid sting by any means, just a look back about how Ryanair ended up where they are.
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In reply to 411a
"as one Russian new type crashed just awhile ago"
As have Boeing's, Airbus and other aircraft. Russian aircraft design isn't too shabby, if the aircraft were flown to western standards the hull loss stats would improve dramatically.
The TU154M that did the emergency landing at a disused field in Russia looks like it'll fly out soon, care to emulate that with any equivalent western type?
The only aircraft I can recall that passengers were wary of was the DC-10, think yourself lucky you flew the other Tri.
As have Boeing's, Airbus and other aircraft. Russian aircraft design isn't too shabby, if the aircraft were flown to western standards the hull loss stats would improve dramatically.
The TU154M that did the emergency landing at a disused field in Russia looks like it'll fly out soon, care to emulate that with any equivalent western type?
The only aircraft I can recall that passengers were wary of was the DC-10, think yourself lucky you flew the other Tri.
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Im not naive - but some comments are allowable/funny/stupid and some comments are not.
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Apart from of course a decent replacement for older 738's why doesn;t O'Leary look at the E195. This would be perfect for Ryanair to make profit from smaller destinations but still be able to pack the passengers in!
I don't see what is so crazy about this idea. Granted, I think Ryanair may be a decade or two ahead of schedule but I think that it's a foregone conclusion that one day China will make an airplane just well and just as safe as the USA or Europe and likely significantly cheaper.