Viking Airlines
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Viking Bashing
Quite frankly I am appaled by all of the ridiculous and unfounded comments made on this subject, especially by aviation employees. In a world where this industry has taken a monumental bashing you still see the need to add fuel to the fire and instill even more fear and uncertainty amongst the public to existing airlines.
I have remained silent long enough on this topic and now feel the need to speak up. With regard all of the comments concerning PW, all of you seem to forget that by investing in Viking and the UK arm he has helped provide jobs for many over the last 21 months and help keep families together because of those jobs! A fact for which I am extremely grateful!
Viking is NOT bust but simply has to reassess its structure in a difficult market. There are many other companies doing the same at the moment but unlike some I will not name names. It has been a very tough year and certainly not helped by two of their customers going bust but they are not the only two customers on their books!!
May I suggest that if you have nothing useful to say then say nothing at all.
I have remained silent long enough on this topic and now feel the need to speak up. With regard all of the comments concerning PW, all of you seem to forget that by investing in Viking and the UK arm he has helped provide jobs for many over the last 21 months and help keep families together because of those jobs! A fact for which I am extremely grateful!
Viking is NOT bust but simply has to reassess its structure in a difficult market. There are many other companies doing the same at the moment but unlike some I will not name names. It has been a very tough year and certainly not helped by two of their customers going bust but they are not the only two customers on their books!!
May I suggest that if you have nothing useful to say then say nothing at all.
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Well said 737addit!
I have had a long absence from these pages, and reading this rubbish I know why!
The Viking boys and girls are just trying to make a living in a market controlled by the big boys.
Pw puts his money where his mouth is, and provides jobs!
I love these people that hide behind alias on this site! Being in business is not risk free ..... This is the case in aviation more than most ......
And no I don't work for Viking and no I am not a pilot just a realist!
I have had a long absence from these pages, and reading this rubbish I know why!
The Viking boys and girls are just trying to make a living in a market controlled by the big boys.
Pw puts his money where his mouth is, and provides jobs!
I love these people that hide behind alias on this site! Being in business is not risk free ..... This is the case in aviation more than most ......
And no I don't work for Viking and no I am not a pilot just a realist!
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Putting the thread in-fighting to one side, can anyone answer the following question:
flyviking are selling flights to the public on their website. As far as I understand it, these flights are charter flights operating on charter licenses and not scheduled services (I prepared to be corrected on this point!). As such, if the flight seats are being sold to UK punters (regardless of whether they are part of a package holiday) would Viking still not need to have an ATOL license in place with the CAA to be able to sell its seats?
flyviking are selling flights to the public on their website. As far as I understand it, these flights are charter flights operating on charter licenses and not scheduled services (I prepared to be corrected on this point!). As such, if the flight seats are being sold to UK punters (regardless of whether they are part of a package holiday) would Viking still not need to have an ATOL license in place with the CAA to be able to sell its seats?
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Globetrotter atol
The short answer to your question is no
Ryan air / easy ect do not need an atol to cover their seat only sales....
I don't want to bore you, so will leave it there!
Ryan air / easy ect do not need an atol to cover their seat only sales....
I don't want to bore you, so will leave it there!
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Globetrotter:
As far as I understand it, ATOL cover is only required if the sale to the customer includes the flight (charter or schedule) and other ground services (holiday package). JET2 have ATOL cover but would normally only use it for their Inclusive Tour programmes. The same as Kiss Flights, only some of their customers were covered by their ATOL, those who were IT customers. The flight only customers, even though they were on charter flights, did not have ATOL cover.
Viking are free to sell their charter flight seats to the general public or other travel organisations without ATOL cover. The CAA have other licencing procedures for airlines, I believe.
As far as I understand it, ATOL cover is only required if the sale to the customer includes the flight (charter or schedule) and other ground services (holiday package). JET2 have ATOL cover but would normally only use it for their Inclusive Tour programmes. The same as Kiss Flights, only some of their customers were covered by their ATOL, those who were IT customers. The flight only customers, even though they were on charter flights, did not have ATOL cover.
Viking are free to sell their charter flight seats to the general public or other travel organisations without ATOL cover. The CAA have other licencing procedures for airlines, I believe.
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I am amazed that there are people coming out of the woodwork to defend PW even yet.
Goldtrail Travel collapses a couple of weeks ago having made payments for all of its flying to Meridian Aviation before it ceases trading. A strange thing to do for a company about to cease trading.
Meridian Aviation is run by PW's brother and places most of its flying with Viking Airlines, which is part-owned by PW's investment vehicle, the name of which is inspired by a pirate ship (at least that's honest).
Kiss Flights (which used to be a subsidiary of Meridian before being "sold" to another company that happened to have a sufficiently large ATOL licence which Meridian couldn't get itself) then ceases trading having taken all of its peak summer customers overseas and leaving the CAA with a large bill to get them back home again.
Viking then suddenly pops up selling seats directly to the public via the internet, which as a Swedish airline, it can do without any of the ATOL protection which Goldtrail and Kiss Flights customers would have enjoyed. It is now selling seats at a significantly higher price on the same flights to the same customers who had booked with Goldtrail and then re-booked with Kiss Flights and now have to re-book again.
Does anyone else smell a large rat here?
Goldtrail Travel collapses a couple of weeks ago having made payments for all of its flying to Meridian Aviation before it ceases trading. A strange thing to do for a company about to cease trading.
Meridian Aviation is run by PW's brother and places most of its flying with Viking Airlines, which is part-owned by PW's investment vehicle, the name of which is inspired by a pirate ship (at least that's honest).
Kiss Flights (which used to be a subsidiary of Meridian before being "sold" to another company that happened to have a sufficiently large ATOL licence which Meridian couldn't get itself) then ceases trading having taken all of its peak summer customers overseas and leaving the CAA with a large bill to get them back home again.
Viking then suddenly pops up selling seats directly to the public via the internet, which as a Swedish airline, it can do without any of the ATOL protection which Goldtrail and Kiss Flights customers would have enjoyed. It is now selling seats at a significantly higher price on the same flights to the same customers who had booked with Goldtrail and then re-booked with Kiss Flights and now have to re-book again.
Does anyone else smell a large rat here?
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Albert Hall
I share the same thoughts as you do.
I'm just as amazed at the amount of support Phil Wyatt is getting on here, he must be pis**ng himself laughing at these silly buggers that haven't even checked out the facts before posting.
Remember your support for this parasite when your stood in line at the dole office next month.
I share the same thoughts as you do.
I'm just as amazed at the amount of support Phil Wyatt is getting on here, he must be pis**ng himself laughing at these silly buggers that haven't even checked out the facts before posting.
Remember your support for this parasite when your stood in line at the dole office next month.
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Booked with Kiss for Viking
Hi, I booked my holiday with Kiss flights and was given Viking as my airline. Now that kiss have gone bump I need to re-book my flights but Viking are not showing a return flight on the date we want to come back which is Thursday 25th November. I have tried several other airlines but cannot find flights that fit in with our holiday i.e. depart 6th November return 25th November Manchester - Sharm. Can anyone help??
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albery hall - interesting post, and to be honest it makes me feel sick, these people are vile for doing that. I wish the media would pick this up, because im sure the general public would be very interested to see the web of back handers and creative accounting.
Viking haven't "suddenly popped selling seats directly to the public via the internet..." They have always sold seats directly to the public as do many other charter airlines. Not suprisingly the seats on the flights cost more if booked directly - if you charter a whole 737-800 you will get it at a cheaper price per seat than if 180 people buy the seats seperately. As a charter company you then have to charge your customers enough to cover that cost along with all your other overheads, which Kiss and Goldtrails appear not to have done.
They are not ATOL protected - this is nothing to do with them being Swedish.
If you buy a ticket from Ryan air it is not ATOL protected, and they are Irish. But there again, if you buy a seat from Easyjet, Jet 2, Bmi Baby, Flybe, Eastern, Air South West, Virgin or British Airways, to name but a few it is not ATOL protected, the ATOL scheme only applies to package holidays.
Sadly as a result of the collapse of Goldtrails and Kiss a lot of those who have worked for Viking are now losing their jobs. However Viking are still in existance, still employing pilots and cabin crew, just scaling back their operations. It is noticeable that companies like Thompson and BMI can announce redundancies and fleet reductions and we don't see pprune covered with threads titled "BMI bust", possibly because a few posters on pprune don't have a personal axe to grind against Sir Michael Bishop, for example...
They are not ATOL protected - this is nothing to do with them being Swedish.
If you buy a ticket from Ryan air it is not ATOL protected, and they are Irish. But there again, if you buy a seat from Easyjet, Jet 2, Bmi Baby, Flybe, Eastern, Air South West, Virgin or British Airways, to name but a few it is not ATOL protected, the ATOL scheme only applies to package holidays.
Sadly as a result of the collapse of Goldtrails and Kiss a lot of those who have worked for Viking are now losing their jobs. However Viking are still in existance, still employing pilots and cabin crew, just scaling back their operations. It is noticeable that companies like Thompson and BMI can announce redundancies and fleet reductions and we don't see pprune covered with threads titled "BMI bust", possibly because a few posters on pprune don't have a personal axe to grind against Sir Michael Bishop, for example...
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They have always sold seats directly to the public
The point I was making about ATOL cover was that up to now, anyone buying seats on these flights would have been covered by an ATOL. Now they are not. I agree with you that it simply places Viking on the same footing as the likes of Ryanair, but I think the diference is that Ryanair didn't leave a trail of destruction in its wake to get to that position in the first place.
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I would humbly suggest that the comment "possibly because a few posters on PPRuNe don't have a personal axe to grind against Sir Michael Bishop, for example..." is not a good example.
MB has been involved with how many airlines in the last 20 years and if I am correct that airline is still in business.
I think what people are getting at is that PW has been associated with numerous airlines in the last 20 years and very few are still in business whilst hundreds of thousands of passengers have had their holiday plans wrecked while numerous creditors have been owed many millions of pounds - not quite the same as MB but feel free to offer other examples.
MB has been involved with how many airlines in the last 20 years and if I am correct that airline is still in business.
I think what people are getting at is that PW has been associated with numerous airlines in the last 20 years and very few are still in business whilst hundreds of thousands of passengers have had their holiday plans wrecked while numerous creditors have been owed many millions of pounds - not quite the same as MB but feel free to offer other examples.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Originally Posted by excrab
we don't see PPRuNe covered with threads titled "BMI bust"
Originally Posted by Albert
Goldtrail Travel collapses a couple of weeks ago having made payments for all of its flying to Meridian Aviation before it ceases trading. A strange thing to do for a company about to cease trading.
Meridian Aviation is run by PW's brother and places most of its flying with Viking Airlines, which is part-owned by PW's investment vehicle, the name of which is inspired by a pirate ship (at least that's honest).
Meridian Aviation is run by PW's brother and places most of its flying with Viking Airlines, which is part-owned by PW's investment vehicle, the name of which is inspired by a pirate ship (at least that's honest).
For those into inhaling odours of the genus Muroidea (that'll get you Googling...
) it may be interesting to plough through the closed thread on Globespan to see the occasional 'glancing blow' of the words Viking and Viking Hellas and Greek-Cypriot owners and Icelandics and PW and ............................ The trail ???????????I think that unless I was desperate for a job I would look very closely for certain names on the company list.
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Albert
Your post is inaccurate and misleading :
Goldtrail - an independent company who's owner has apparently absconded, no doubt taking a large amount of dosh with him and dropping ALL the suppliers in the sh1t, GT had not paid for all their flights as this would be impossible, Goldtrail would have been contracted for seats until the end of Oct, which would have been planned into the flying programme, obviously no payment, no flying! thus the need to re-plan and potentially downsize - it is not rocket science.
Meridian / Viking - Standard practice for Airlines to use GSA's in the UK market. Look at the Monarch / First Aviation relationship.
Kiss - they didn't go bust taking all their peak bookings with them, the peak period this year has not materialised, this has already been stated publicly by Tui and Tcx and they have warned of result that are at the 'lower end of market expectations'. If the bookings do not come in, then unfortunately, it causes companies to fail, there has been a long string of them over the past year and, no doubt, more to follow.
The travel market is a very tough business to be in right now and yes tough decisions have to be made....
end!
Goldtrail - an independent company who's owner has apparently absconded, no doubt taking a large amount of dosh with him and dropping ALL the suppliers in the sh1t, GT had not paid for all their flights as this would be impossible, Goldtrail would have been contracted for seats until the end of Oct, which would have been planned into the flying programme, obviously no payment, no flying! thus the need to re-plan and potentially downsize - it is not rocket science.
Meridian / Viking - Standard practice for Airlines to use GSA's in the UK market. Look at the Monarch / First Aviation relationship.
Kiss - they didn't go bust taking all their peak bookings with them, the peak period this year has not materialised, this has already been stated publicly by Tui and Tcx and they have warned of result that are at the 'lower end of market expectations'. If the bookings do not come in, then unfortunately, it causes companies to fail, there has been a long string of them over the past year and, no doubt, more to follow.
The travel market is a very tough business to be in right now and yes tough decisions have to be made....
end!
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GT had not paid for all their flights as this would be impossible
Goldtrail called in administrators Begbies Traynor on Friday – hours after paying £1.3 million to cover its flying with a “handful of airlines”.
Joint administrator Jamie Taylor said it was “unusual” for such a payment to be made just as a company was going into administration.
Joint administrator Jamie Taylor said it was “unusual” for such a payment to be made just as a company was going into administration.
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interesting article.
Not sure how this historic article fits into this discussion, but just thought it might be interesting to feature it... love the last sentence !
Kiss Flights owner launches flyviking.com
Jun 03, 2010 09:00
The parent of seat-only operator Kiss Flights has signed an exclusive deal to run Viking Airlines’ new direct-sell website.
Viking Airlines, part-owned by former XL Leisure Group boss Phil Wyatt, has licensed Flight Options to use the domain name flyviking.com for two years to
sell a proportion of its stock.
The deal allows the airline to market itself as providing 100% financial protection for consumers, as compulsory scheduled airline failure insurance (Safi) is sold with every booking.
Wyatt, who has a 50% stake in Viking Airlines through his firm Black Pearl Investments, said the airline was looking to spread distribution rather than rely on independent operators and agents.
He said: “We’re making a small number of seats available on a non-committed basis to consumers. We are not becoming the next flymonarch.com.”
The site, which launched this week, also sells car parking and access to airport lounges.
Flight Options managing director Gary Ash said: “We already work closely with Viking Airlines as it is a main supplier for Kiss Flights, so this was a great opportunity for us.”
Ash said he would consider branching out to hotels or bed banks in future once
Atol responsibilities had been clarified by the Department for Transport review. “We would consider having a few website links to hotel companies but it would depend on the Civil Aviation Authority,” said Ash.
“There has been a loss of confidence since the volcanic ash disruption. Once the confidence returns we will begin marketing activities. The fact that customers have 100% Safi protection will be a huge selling point.”
Kiss Flights owner launches flyviking.com
Jun 03, 2010 09:00
The parent of seat-only operator Kiss Flights has signed an exclusive deal to run Viking Airlines’ new direct-sell website.
Viking Airlines, part-owned by former XL Leisure Group boss Phil Wyatt, has licensed Flight Options to use the domain name flyviking.com for two years to
sell a proportion of its stock.
The deal allows the airline to market itself as providing 100% financial protection for consumers, as compulsory scheduled airline failure insurance (Safi) is sold with every booking.
Wyatt, who has a 50% stake in Viking Airlines through his firm Black Pearl Investments, said the airline was looking to spread distribution rather than rely on independent operators and agents.
He said: “We’re making a small number of seats available on a non-committed basis to consumers. We are not becoming the next flymonarch.com.”
The site, which launched this week, also sells car parking and access to airport lounges.
Flight Options managing director Gary Ash said: “We already work closely with Viking Airlines as it is a main supplier for Kiss Flights, so this was a great opportunity for us.”
Ash said he would consider branching out to hotels or bed banks in future once
Atol responsibilities had been clarified by the Department for Transport review. “We would consider having a few website links to hotel companies but it would depend on the Civil Aviation Authority,” said Ash.
“There has been a loss of confidence since the volcanic ash disruption. Once the confidence returns we will begin marketing activities. The fact that customers have 100% Safi protection will be a huge selling point.”