FlyBe - 6
Join Date: May 2003
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SOU-MAN and SOU-LBA
I've noticed that at least twice in the past four days, the usual evening routes SOU-MAN-SOU and SOU-LBA-SOU have been apparently replaced by a single flight with the route SOU-MAN-LBA-SOU. Anybody able to enlighten me as to whether this is down to aircraft being unserviceable, or just dreadful load factors?
LTP
LTP
Join Date: Oct 2003
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It would be a pretty desperate airline that makes such a decision due to commercial reasons. One very quick way to invite competition and lose business.
I don't know the reasons why, but I very much doubt its down to the second option.
I don't know the reasons why, but I very much doubt its down to the second option.
Last edited by JobsaGoodun; 7th May 2011 at 10:02.
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Maybe its just me, but some of the recent one liners re Flybe come across as negative digs without much substance to back them up.
I have also read the recent trading update which appears to be a frank account of the current trading situation. Seems reasonable to me to mention in that statement that action may need to be taken to protect yields. Surely this is forward thinking rather than panic. A profit is till forecast albeit less than planned.
Just my view as an independent outsider with no connection to Flybe at all.
V.
I have also read the recent trading update which appears to be a frank account of the current trading situation. Seems reasonable to me to mention in that statement that action may need to be taken to protect yields. Surely this is forward thinking rather than panic. A profit is till forecast albeit less than planned.
Just my view as an independent outsider with no connection to Flybe at all.
V.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Vectisman
You make a fair point
I don't see this as an about to fail airline, but rather it underlines the challenge that making money in the UK regional airline has become. APD airport charges means there is very little profit to be had when coupled with high oil prices.
They have a large number of aircraft on order that need to be paid for and with lots of small airports means lots of crew positioning cost and have had some flight canx due lack of crew which implies they need to increase their cost base in crew terms.
BA did not dump BAcon because it was profitable !
I don't see this as an about to fail airline, but rather it underlines the challenge that making money in the UK regional airline has become. APD airport charges means there is very little profit to be had when coupled with high oil prices.
They have a large number of aircraft on order that need to be paid for and with lots of small airports means lots of crew positioning cost and have had some flight canx due lack of crew which implies they need to increase their cost base in crew terms.
BA did not dump BAcon because it was profitable !
Join Date: Sep 2007
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No-one in the financial press is suggesting this is an airline about to fail, and such talk in non-financial circles is reckless and ill-informed. They are still pretty profitable, cash rich and key numbers are generally fairly resilient.
It is simply a case that they raised a lot of cash in the markets only 5 months ago based on future earnings and growth projections which have now been revised severely downwards. They are still projecting a profit of c£22m in 2011/12, but previously they were looking at £35m+. The investors are not happy.
They do have some big orders to fund and deploy, and if these end up being used for fleet renewal rather than growth that will also derail the medium term expansion projections at the time of the IPO.
As I said before, with the UK market fairly saturated and, at best, flat for growth, they need to pull off one of these much vaunted 'deals' in mainland Europe to rebuild a little market confidence , and show their investors that their eventual growth plans are deliverable.
Shareholders may be feeling a little duped at the moment, but I can't see that pax and staff have too much to be concerned about.
It is simply a case that they raised a lot of cash in the markets only 5 months ago based on future earnings and growth projections which have now been revised severely downwards. They are still projecting a profit of c£22m in 2011/12, but previously they were looking at £35m+. The investors are not happy.
They do have some big orders to fund and deploy, and if these end up being used for fleet renewal rather than growth that will also derail the medium term expansion projections at the time of the IPO.
As I said before, with the UK market fairly saturated and, at best, flat for growth, they need to pull off one of these much vaunted 'deals' in mainland Europe to rebuild a little market confidence , and show their investors that their eventual growth plans are deliverable.
Shareholders may be feeling a little duped at the moment, but I can't see that pax and staff have too much to be concerned about.
Join Date: May 2003
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I'm not sure if the "negative digs without substance" comment was partially directed at my question, however some friends of mine were affected by the merging of the flights I mentioned, on Tuesday and Friday this week.
My profile should suggest that I have some idea what I'm talking about, and in this case there seems to be a lot of evidence that Flybe are merging flights regularly (on this particular pair of routes, in any case) for commercial rather than technical reasons. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that if the load factor on all four flights is below 50%, then it makes commercial sense to do one round-robin flight and excuse the inconvenience with "technical difficulties". The truth of this is difficult to verify, of course, but Flybe will know that the other option - of declaring the truth - would be viewed as completely unacceptable by its customers.
I have no wish to run the airline down and neither hope or think that they will fail - they contribute to my salary after all. Indeed, their shares are starting to look like quite good value when one considers that they appear to be learning very quickly that they must operate very cynically in order to succeed in the low cost arena.
However, I would want to see considerable improvement in their current average load factor of 70%, which is dire compared to peers like Easyjet and Ryanair. And probably lends further weight to my suspicions...
LTP
My profile should suggest that I have some idea what I'm talking about, and in this case there seems to be a lot of evidence that Flybe are merging flights regularly (on this particular pair of routes, in any case) for commercial rather than technical reasons. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that if the load factor on all four flights is below 50%, then it makes commercial sense to do one round-robin flight and excuse the inconvenience with "technical difficulties". The truth of this is difficult to verify, of course, but Flybe will know that the other option - of declaring the truth - would be viewed as completely unacceptable by its customers.
I have no wish to run the airline down and neither hope or think that they will fail - they contribute to my salary after all. Indeed, their shares are starting to look like quite good value when one considers that they appear to be learning very quickly that they must operate very cynically in order to succeed in the low cost arena.
However, I would want to see considerable improvement in their current average load factor of 70%, which is dire compared to peers like Easyjet and Ryanair. And probably lends further weight to my suspicions...
LTP
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LTP
Whilst your theory holds water, I can assure you as aircrew I have been on the receiving end of "tech" aeroplanes around the network in recent weeks, and they have been doubling up where necessary & applicable.
Whilst your theory holds water, I can assure you as aircrew I have been on the receiving end of "tech" aeroplanes around the network in recent weeks, and they have been doubling up where necessary & applicable.
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However, I would want to see considerable improvement in their current average load factor of 70%, which is dire compared to peers like Easyjet and Ryanair. And probably lends further weight to my suspicion
Load factor, whilst a measure by which to record success should not be viewed exclusively. You can have a load factor of 100%.......but it's all about the yield.
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Anyone know how bookings on LDY and MAN are going. Are senior management happy with what they've seen so far or not?
Is there a possibility that the route could be extended? Personally, with everyone scrambling to get home at xmas, I think they'd miss their most profitable period from the route!
Is there a possibility that the route could be extended? Personally, with everyone scrambling to get home at xmas, I think they'd miss their most profitable period from the route!
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Oh really? I thought Jim French himself contributed to this site... 
Some people on this forum are partial to experiencing grumbles or positive noises from those who have indepth knowledge of Flybe or either airports. I myself was even informed by an editor on this thread privately that the route was going to be announced a fortnight before it was officially announced.
So it is not beyond reason to think there may be a possiblity that someone might know how the routes doing.
Some people on this forum are partial to experiencing grumbles or positive noises from those who have indepth knowledge of Flybe or either airports. I myself was even informed by an editor on this thread privately that the route was going to be announced a fortnight before it was officially announced.
So it is not beyond reason to think there may be a possiblity that someone might know how the routes doing.
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Flybe Inverness - Gatwick
Concern rise in landing fees could threaten Gatwick flight.
Could the Inverness to London Gatwick flight be under threat?
A VITAL air link between Inverness and London Gatwick could be at risk because of increases to landing charges, it is feared.
Highland councillors are concerned increases imposed on regional carriers like Flybe will be passed onto passengers and impact on the numbers using the flight, making it less profitable.
They now propose to write to operator Flybe, which runs a three times a day service between London and Gatwick, to support its opposition to the rises in landing fees.
Global Infrastructure Partners, who operate Gatwick, got permission from the Civil Aviation Authority to raise charges earlier this year, resulting in a 20 per cent rise for small aircrafts, like those run by Flybe on the Inverness to Gatwick route.
For Info.
Inverness Courier | News | Concern rise in landing fees could threaten Gatwick flight
Could the Inverness to London Gatwick flight be under threat?
A VITAL air link between Inverness and London Gatwick could be at risk because of increases to landing charges, it is feared.
Highland councillors are concerned increases imposed on regional carriers like Flybe will be passed onto passengers and impact on the numbers using the flight, making it less profitable.
They now propose to write to operator Flybe, which runs a three times a day service between London and Gatwick, to support its opposition to the rises in landing fees.
Global Infrastructure Partners, who operate Gatwick, got permission from the Civil Aviation Authority to raise charges earlier this year, resulting in a 20 per cent rise for small aircrafts, like those run by Flybe on the Inverness to Gatwick route.
For Info.
Inverness Courier | News | Concern rise in landing fees could threaten Gatwick flight
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Down a Tin mine......
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Exeter 195 op's :-
EXT-MAN - daily Mon to Friday,
EXT-DUB - Sun,Tue, Fri
EXT-JER - Sat only
EXT-EGC - Mon,Thurs
EXT-ALC - Sun,Tues,Fri
EXT-AGP - Sat, Mon,Thurs
EXT-PMI - Sun, Wed
EXT-FAO - Sat, Wed
Think thats all of them.....
brgds
W.G
EXT-MAN - daily Mon to Friday,
EXT-DUB - Sun,Tue, Fri
EXT-JER - Sat only
EXT-EGC - Mon,Thurs
EXT-ALC - Sun,Tues,Fri
EXT-AGP - Sat, Mon,Thurs
EXT-PMI - Sun, Wed
EXT-FAO - Sat, Wed
Think thats all of them.....
brgds
W.G