30 airlines will go bust this year
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windytoo- How do you know about my personal life? I was hoping to keep my joinery skills hidden from the public but you have now outed me. shame on you, just dont come begging when you want a door hung.
As for Alitalia, it is correct that it is public knowledge that they have been bankrupt for ages but the change has come with the EU deciding that enough is enough. See other threads for that. I must get back to my homework now or teacher will be very cross.
As for Alitalia, it is correct that it is public knowledge that they have been bankrupt for ages but the change has come with the EU deciding that enough is enough. See other threads for that. I must get back to my homework now or teacher will be very cross.
Last edited by al446; 13th Sep 2008 at 11:00. Reason: spelling
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El446, actually EU hasn't decided anything. Surely they objected to the latest loan (should I say last ?), thing that has NOT prevented the Italian Gov to go ahead. In fact the italian gov. (past and present) embraces EU policies when it's convenient for them, and ignore them when it's not.
Now as I said in another thread, yet another bailbout from the Gov is unlikely, not because the EU watchdog, but for internal political reasonss that can be boring to repeat here.
Now as I said in another thread, yet another bailbout from the Gov is unlikely, not because the EU watchdog, but for internal political reasonss that can be boring to repeat here.
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The frightening thing is that airlines that have good load factors, and good performance are in danger of going under. Who knows who could be next.
Airlines such as flybe and Ryanair must be really twitchy with a constant in- flow of new a/c......
Whoever is next to go, its a sad time and I fear that the bottom rungs have been chopped off the recruitment ladder for the forseeable future...
Airlines such as flybe and Ryanair must be really twitchy with a constant in- flow of new a/c......
Whoever is next to go, its a sad time and I fear that the bottom rungs have been chopped off the recruitment ladder for the forseeable future...
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Alitalia will survive. I'm 100% sure... It's a question of national pride. Besides, most Italian companies are almost immortal. Take a look at the history of Fiat or Piaggio...
XXXavier
XXXavier
short flights long nights
Regarding Alitalia..I would like to bet.."not this time". I think it is all over, that the fat lady is about to sing. Yes, they have pulled it off time and time again, continued working with rules out of 1847, and taken "funding' from where ever they could get it.
But I think..this time it's different. The Piper is Playing the Tune, the Obese Chick is doing the Rap...the cards are about to fall.............
Lets see if I am right.
But I think..this time it's different. The Piper is Playing the Tune, the Obese Chick is doing the Rap...the cards are about to fall.............
Lets see if I am right.
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Windsheer, Ryanair have cash in the bank, low operating costs and can undercut any of their competition for many years to come. Flybe have cash in the bank, record profits last year and £12m profit for first quarter this year. Flybe's new Q400 deliveries are just replacing departing 145s with a more fuel efficient aircraft. Both the airlines you mention are actually better placed than most to weather the tough times facing our industry.
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Flybe have cash in the bank, record profits last year and £12m profit for first quarter this year.
£12m profit
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if any airline wants to survive, all they need to do is put all remaining funds on alitalia going bust next, they can get 6/4 on it. paddypower have drawn up the odds:
i saw willie walsh dropping into my local bookies putting a cheeky hundred quid on ba at 50/1
i saw willie walsh dropping into my local bookies putting a cheeky hundred quid on ba at 50/1
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
Eastern Wiseguy,
Yes
There are no lower cost operators than flybe in their market segment. Flybe's biggest competitor is actually BMI (between the domestic routes of regional and baby). On what percentage of their routes do you suppose flybe are in a "straight fight" with RYR and EZY? Think about it now. 50%? 20%? 10%? 5%? Do a little research, then get back on here with some informed and valid questioning.
sr
That they do....however with a recession looming will they have enough CUSTOMERS to fill their aircraft.
I wonder how exposed they would be in a straight fight against
other "lower cost" operators when every penny counts..?
other "lower cost" operators when every penny counts..?
sr
Last edited by speedrestriction; 13th Sep 2008 at 18:00. Reason: clarity
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Think about it now
Think about BFS/BHD LGW GLA NCL MAN LBA CDF EDI (as examples).....think about Flybe and the CONSISTENTLY higher fares(yes I do check)...think about cutbacks when there is a recession.....think about choice when the travel department are spending money.
Your shiny new aircraft may well be efficient...but you still need bums on seats and that seems to be the one element which is evaporating quicker than snow of a sheugh.
Last edited by eastern wiseguy; 14th Sep 2008 at 06:38. Reason: Additions and clarity
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Of course, EZY haven't recently announced redundancies or large cutbacks on route frequencies out of BFS at all. Or did they? Maybe Wiseguy can fill us in.
BE have cut some rotations from BHD too, but nothing like EZY, and not one single redundancy at all.
Compare away dear friend, compare away. Oh and Tower Ranger sends his regards.
BE have cut some rotations from BHD too, but nothing like EZY, and not one single redundancy at all.
Compare away dear friend, compare away. Oh and Tower Ranger sends his regards.
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EZY and FR
There is talk of EZY cut backs, closing the Stansted (base).
One thing I have noticed over the last few weeks is the rate Ryanair are
launching new routes out of Stansted and other Airports.
One thing I have noticed over the last few weeks is the rate Ryanair are
launching new routes out of Stansted and other Airports.
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Hang on a minute. Aren't we in danger of doing this Journo Hack's job for him?
He's from that same stable of sh*t that that other sensationalist anti aviation git Montague slithered out from. Does everybody remember him? Post EgyptAir he was trawling these forums surupticiously for snippets of 'could be this' & 'it's definately that'. He's now the 'media frontman' with EuroTunnel.
Calder is a spineless, chinless tw*t of the highest order & his literal arse gravy should be consigned to the toilet. It's factless, baseless, groundless supposition, rumour & 'what if' wrapped up as 'this is what's going to happen next', 'this one'll will probably not be around'. I wonder if he realises that his comments can actually put people off booking with a particular company thereby causing or potentially causing further collapses.
The 'man' is a sensationalist twit who, if brains, knowledge & insight into airline op's was dynamite, wouldn't have enough to clear his nose.
Make this swine know what it feels like to have sleepless nights about his job- boycott the 'Independant'
He's from that same stable of sh*t that that other sensationalist anti aviation git Montague slithered out from. Does everybody remember him? Post EgyptAir he was trawling these forums surupticiously for snippets of 'could be this' & 'it's definately that'. He's now the 'media frontman' with EuroTunnel.
Calder is a spineless, chinless tw*t of the highest order & his literal arse gravy should be consigned to the toilet. It's factless, baseless, groundless supposition, rumour & 'what if' wrapped up as 'this is what's going to happen next', 'this one'll will probably not be around'. I wonder if he realises that his comments can actually put people off booking with a particular company thereby causing or potentially causing further collapses.
The 'man' is a sensationalist twit who, if brains, knowledge & insight into airline op's was dynamite, wouldn't have enough to clear his nose.
Make this swine know what it feels like to have sleepless nights about his job- boycott the 'Independant'
Last edited by Pontious; 14th Sep 2008 at 02:59.
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From Todays telegraph,
The Icelandic owner of West Ham football club and his billionaire son are the major financial victims of the collapse of XL Leisure Group, nursing most of a £165m bad debt.
West Ham United has axed its £7.5m deal with XL
Banking magnate Bjorgolfur Gudmundsson and his son Bjorgolfur Thor Bjorgolfsson, along with other investors, have personally taken on the debt owed by XL to prevent the failed travel group triggering wider collapses in the Icelandic economy.
Their fear was that XL could also bring down Iceland's biggest transport company Eimskip, in which they have a controlling stake.
XL's three main creditors were revealed yesterday as British bank Barclays, owed around £10m, Icelandic bank Straumur, owed £36m, and Icelandic bank Landsbanki, owed £165m. Total debts are estimated to top £350m.
West Ham yesterday axed its £7.5m three-year shirt sponsorship deal with XL, though a spokesman for the club insisted: "There is no other fall-out from the collapse of XL."
Comment: XL Leisure Group is an extra large disaster
More on leisure
As XL's tearful chief executive Phil Wyatt said "ultimately I blame myself" for XL's administration, creditors rowed over who ended the refinancing talks that prompted its demise.
advertisementIn a last-ditch attempt this week, XL approached rival Thomas Cook over a potential rescue deal but the fledgling talks started too late. Administrator Kroll said it would be "grossly unjust" to place any blame on a single creditor, adding it would take months to work through XL's complex affairs.
One insider said: "It's the Icelandic backers that stand to lose the most from all this." XL's tangled web of debts to Icelandic companies leads back two years, when the tour operator's board staged a $480m (£267m) management buy-out from Eimskip.
The loan to complete the deal was provided to XL by bank Landsbanki, of which £165m was guaranteed by Eimskip.
Bjorgolfur Gudmundsson, who chairs Landsbanki, is the controlling shareholder in the bank while his son chairs Straumur. Straumur pumped £11m into XL in recent months in a doomed attempt to save the travel operator but settled for buying its French and German operations at "a considerable discount".
XL Leisure rivals ready to carve up business
XL highlights extent of Icelandic investment in the UK
Thomas Cook boss slams Government over XL
Phil Wyatt said he had worked "night and day" before admitting defeat. "We have made every effort to refinance the principal debt of the group but, despite significant interest, the group was unsuccessful."
He said XL would have needed an extra £70m to survive the winter. A Civil Aviation Authority spokesman said it was likely 1,700 jobs would be lost. XL's latest accounts for the year to October 31 2007 showed pre-tax losses of £7.1m on revenues of £549m.
The Icelandic owner of West Ham football club and his billionaire son are the major financial victims of the collapse of XL Leisure Group, nursing most of a £165m bad debt.
West Ham United has axed its £7.5m deal with XL
Banking magnate Bjorgolfur Gudmundsson and his son Bjorgolfur Thor Bjorgolfsson, along with other investors, have personally taken on the debt owed by XL to prevent the failed travel group triggering wider collapses in the Icelandic economy.
Their fear was that XL could also bring down Iceland's biggest transport company Eimskip, in which they have a controlling stake.
XL's three main creditors were revealed yesterday as British bank Barclays, owed around £10m, Icelandic bank Straumur, owed £36m, and Icelandic bank Landsbanki, owed £165m. Total debts are estimated to top £350m.
West Ham yesterday axed its £7.5m three-year shirt sponsorship deal with XL, though a spokesman for the club insisted: "There is no other fall-out from the collapse of XL."
Comment: XL Leisure Group is an extra large disaster
More on leisure
As XL's tearful chief executive Phil Wyatt said "ultimately I blame myself" for XL's administration, creditors rowed over who ended the refinancing talks that prompted its demise.
advertisementIn a last-ditch attempt this week, XL approached rival Thomas Cook over a potential rescue deal but the fledgling talks started too late. Administrator Kroll said it would be "grossly unjust" to place any blame on a single creditor, adding it would take months to work through XL's complex affairs.
One insider said: "It's the Icelandic backers that stand to lose the most from all this." XL's tangled web of debts to Icelandic companies leads back two years, when the tour operator's board staged a $480m (£267m) management buy-out from Eimskip.
The loan to complete the deal was provided to XL by bank Landsbanki, of which £165m was guaranteed by Eimskip.
Bjorgolfur Gudmundsson, who chairs Landsbanki, is the controlling shareholder in the bank while his son chairs Straumur. Straumur pumped £11m into XL in recent months in a doomed attempt to save the travel operator but settled for buying its French and German operations at "a considerable discount".
XL Leisure rivals ready to carve up business
XL highlights extent of Icelandic investment in the UK
Thomas Cook boss slams Government over XL
Phil Wyatt said he had worked "night and day" before admitting defeat. "We have made every effort to refinance the principal debt of the group but, despite significant interest, the group was unsuccessful."
He said XL would have needed an extra £70m to survive the winter. A Civil Aviation Authority spokesman said it was likely 1,700 jobs would be lost. XL's latest accounts for the year to October 31 2007 showed pre-tax losses of £7.1m on revenues of £549m.