Silverjet 2 - The Phoenix?
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I agree, sad news and my sympathies to those affected.
That said, and even leaving aside the question of oil prices, 420 employees to operate just 3 planes makes even Alitalia look like a lean and streamlined business.
Was it ever viable with these staffing levels?
That said, and even leaving aside the question of oil prices, 420 employees to operate just 3 planes makes even Alitalia look like a lean and streamlined business.
Was it ever viable with these staffing levels?
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...and perhaps that's all part of the plan. If the prospective investor baulked at the size of the staff pay-packet before it surely looks a lot more attractive now (i.e. nil). Maybe the Administrators agreed with him.
You can bet this has figured in any negotiations and therefore what remains of the Company now, the bare bones, perhaps has a better chance of being resurrected than it did yesterday.
The question of whether crews would actually want to re-join Silverjet Mark 2 in any slimmed-down form, and the legalities of re-employing some but not all, is of course another matter entirely.
I'm afraid that, while sadly livelihoods are at stake on the front line, to the financiers of Switzerland, Monaco and Bermuda like the fellow involved here it's all a money-making game...
You can bet this has figured in any negotiations and therefore what remains of the Company now, the bare bones, perhaps has a better chance of being resurrected than it did yesterday.
The question of whether crews would actually want to re-join Silverjet Mark 2 in any slimmed-down form, and the legalities of re-employing some but not all, is of course another matter entirely.
I'm afraid that, while sadly livelihoods are at stake on the front line, to the financiers of Switzerland, Monaco and Bermuda like the fellow involved here it's all a money-making game...
Join Date: Sep 2003
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A good number of these knights in shining armour are just assets strippers. Most don't know how airlines work and all they see is three huge pieces of valuable assets, namely, the aircraft. When they find out the airline don't own them, but lease instead, things cool quickly. The moment a leasing company say they want money, they're off like a rocket.
I don't hold much hope of a Silverjet MkII. I feel that staff were given a false hope, its something the administrators have to do, however remote the chance of a sale going through.
I don't hold much hope of a Silverjet MkII. I feel that staff were given a false hope, its something the administrators have to do, however remote the chance of a sale going through.
I am a bit confused here, one part of the document says the staff are sacked, the other says that they have been "Formally made redundant".
I thought that these are two subtle but completely different ways of loosing your job.
Very sad for the staff. Good luck one and all.
450 staff!!! F M
I thought that these are two subtle but completely different ways of loosing your job.
Very sad for the staff. Good luck one and all.
450 staff!!! F M
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I thought that these are two subtle but completely different ways of loosing your job.
Thread Starter
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The Administrator has a legal obligation to resolve employment issues within 14 days of going into administration, i.e. by today, and if that is not possible the only options available to them are to make staff redundant or to take on the liability (and cost) of those contracts themselves.
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Stop.....Companies have not been allowed to sack employees since around 1999.
What I mean is 'sack on the spot'
If the SJ staff were made redundant with no notice, That is still classed as a 'sacking on the spot'
If the SJ management said something like, I am very sorry to tell you you are being given a month's notice on full pay - then that is within employment law even if the agreement is not in writing.
But to say to someone your contract has ended on the spot,And no notice given Is a breach of employment law.
In a previous life I worked for a Leading Solicitors in Leeds.
And that is what I learnt about employment law, Although I wasn't an actual solicitor just a Solicitor/fee earner's Assistant.
By the sound of what SJ have done today, It could be a case for a tribunal??
So SJ Management watch out - You have just dug yourself a 'deeper' grave.
What I mean is 'sack on the spot'
If the SJ staff were made redundant with no notice, That is still classed as a 'sacking on the spot'
If the SJ management said something like, I am very sorry to tell you you are being given a month's notice on full pay - then that is within employment law even if the agreement is not in writing.
But to say to someone your contract has ended on the spot,And no notice given Is a breach of employment law.
In a previous life I worked for a Leading Solicitors in Leeds.
And that is what I learnt about employment law, Although I wasn't an actual solicitor just a Solicitor/fee earner's Assistant.
By the sound of what SJ have done today, It could be a case for a tribunal??
So SJ Management watch out - You have just dug yourself a 'deeper' grave.
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A SAD DAY - Friday 13th
I hope that the MINORITY of posters on Pprune who seem to wish the demise of airlines and jobs are pleased with themselves.
Some of the attacks on Silverjet (and others) have been quite disgraceful.
Some of the attacks on Silverjet (and others) have been quite disgraceful.
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Easier to go and stack shelves at Tesco's thesedays than work for some unstable Airline.
It's not about having a career anymore, It's about keeping the Banks & financers away.
It's not about having a career anymore, It's about keeping the Banks & financers away.
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Yes they have, But the SJ management have done no favours to it's loyal waiting on hand staff.
I guess Lawrence *unt and his fellows will be running through the fields now???
I guess Lawrence *unt and his fellows will be running through the fields now???
Paxing All Over The World
Non pilot. Non lawyer speaking.
BYALPHAINDIA
As I understand it, when a company goes bankrupt, then different rules apply. If you are 'sacked' it is because of a misdemeanour on your part that would be part of the company dismissing you from service with a bad record.
If you are made redundant, there is no blemish on your service with them and a future employer will be glad to talk to you. Further, it would (probably) make the staff a creditor for wages and redundancy payment - in the event of their being and cash left when all is done and dusted.
Lastly it also, I think, may affect how you are entitled to social welfare payments in the UK.
BYALPHAINDIA
By the sound of what SJ have done today, It could be a case for a tribunal?
If you are made redundant, there is no blemish on your service with them and a future employer will be glad to talk to you. Further, it would (probably) make the staff a creditor for wages and redundancy payment - in the event of their being and cash left when all is done and dusted.
Lastly it also, I think, may affect how you are entitled to social welfare payments in the UK.
Last edited by PAXboy; 14th Jun 2008 at 00:34.
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Tribunal
Went through this in '04 when my employer went pop.
The staff did collectively take it to tribunal and won. Lack of consultation of
redundencies (90 days I believe). One simple on-line form, but sorry no idea of the link.
Government protected award of about 2K each, but it does take a long time.
Size of company and curcumstances about the same.
Sorry if the rules have changed, but do some digging and give it a punt.
Very best of luck to you all,
Bored
The staff did collectively take it to tribunal and won. Lack of consultation of
redundencies (90 days I believe). One simple on-line form, but sorry no idea of the link.
Government protected award of about 2K each, but it does take a long time.
Size of company and curcumstances about the same.
Sorry if the rules have changed, but do some digging and give it a punt.
Very best of luck to you all,
Bored
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The "All Business Class" airline concept is impractical reality
Dedicated "all business class" airlines have come and gone, irrespective of fuel costs or economic constraints.
It's a flawed concept because travellers paying premium fare have an expectation of flying in separate class. When the entire cabin is just one class, there is no separation; all the seats are the same size, everyone is treated equal. There is no stimulus, nor "reward," for having forked out the extra cash to be visually separated from "cattle" class.
Furthermore, because of the large number of all business class seats in the wide body cabin, there are fewer cabin attendants per passenger than in conventional, much smaller, First/Business classes. Consequently, individual service and customer attention is less focused.
It's a flawed concept because travellers paying premium fare have an expectation of flying in separate class. When the entire cabin is just one class, there is no separation; all the seats are the same size, everyone is treated equal. There is no stimulus, nor "reward," for having forked out the extra cash to be visually separated from "cattle" class.
Furthermore, because of the large number of all business class seats in the wide body cabin, there are fewer cabin attendants per passenger than in conventional, much smaller, First/Business classes. Consequently, individual service and customer attention is less focused.
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Unfortunately SAM2M some of those posters feel for the staff who thru no fault of thier own are now out of a job, however the way silverjet management treated flyjet crew was disgusting, they were lied too in the beginning, and were told that they would have to apply for jobs within the company as how can you compare a limo to a taxi, ( that did loads for the morale) and how many FJE cabin crew were taken on by SJ?, Thats right very few out of all the FJE crew.
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GlueBall
The "All Business Class" airline concept is impractical reality
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dedicated "all business class" airlines have come and gone, irrespective of fuel costs or economic constraints.
It's a flawed concept because travellers paying premium fare have an expectation of flying in separate class. When the entire cabin is just one class, there is no separation; all the seats are the same size, everyone is treated equal. There is no stimulus, nor "reward," for having forked out the extra cash to be visually separated from "cattle" class.
Furthermore, because of the large number of all business class seats in the wide body cabin, there are fewer cabin attendants per passenger than in conventional, much smaller, First/Business classes. Consequently, individual service and customer attention is less focused.
GlueBall.
Your sweeping statement appears to have a large hole.
PrivatAir have just flown their one millionth all business class passenger and customer feedback shows consistent 100% passenger satisfaction.
Where is 'the flaw'?!
(My thoughts are with the excellent SJ staff)
The "All Business Class" airline concept is impractical reality
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dedicated "all business class" airlines have come and gone, irrespective of fuel costs or economic constraints.
It's a flawed concept because travellers paying premium fare have an expectation of flying in separate class. When the entire cabin is just one class, there is no separation; all the seats are the same size, everyone is treated equal. There is no stimulus, nor "reward," for having forked out the extra cash to be visually separated from "cattle" class.
Furthermore, because of the large number of all business class seats in the wide body cabin, there are fewer cabin attendants per passenger than in conventional, much smaller, First/Business classes. Consequently, individual service and customer attention is less focused.
GlueBall.
Your sweeping statement appears to have a large hole.
PrivatAir have just flown their one millionth all business class passenger and customer feedback shows consistent 100% passenger satisfaction.
Where is 'the flaw'?!
(My thoughts are with the excellent SJ staff)
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Concorde was a one class aircraft, all in one cabin and that seemed to do alright.
Concorde never made a profit in any real sense of the word, it was completely subsidized by the French/British governments and their respective large airlines.
Nice to look at certainly, and quite an aeronautical achievement...without a doubt.
But profitable?
Ahhh, no.
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PrivatAir have just flown their one millionth all business class passenger and customer feedback shows consistent 100% passenger satisfaction.
Where is 'the flaw'?!
Where is 'the flaw'?!
That is the huge difference