LHR T5 ... long-haul
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Why are Bmi upset??
Don't know why Nigel Turner is jumping up and down?? The BA move from T4 to T5 6 weeks late WILL NOT effect Bmi or the Star Alliance. BA have vacated T1 for the most part making space for United/Air NZ on 10th June...Many other star carriers such as AC/SK/SQ/TG are staying at T3. LH is staying at T2; OZ, US, SA, LO are already in T1 So what's the big deal??
Didn't think the AF move to T4 was immediate; there is plenty of space for DL/NW/CO as things stand.
There are still bigger issues in the world such as the election fraud in Zimbabwe, and AA's mass cancellations in the USA due to the grounding of the MD83's, etc.
BA/BAA make a sensible decision to prevent a repeat of the previous debacle; yet people have to look to the negatives...
Didn't think the AF move to T4 was immediate; there is plenty of space for DL/NW/CO as things stand.
There are still bigger issues in the world such as the election fraud in Zimbabwe, and AA's mass cancellations in the USA due to the grounding of the MD83's, etc.
BA/BAA make a sensible decision to prevent a repeat of the previous debacle; yet people have to look to the negatives...
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The DfT is partially to blame for lack of capacity at LHR. They turned down a proposal for a new airport in the Thames Gateway (i.e. Ebbsfleet/Dartford), because it was supposedly too expensive.
Hang on a minute - Tons of space for lots of runways, get the Dutch in to build flood defenses, and you have an airport like AMS, move LHR to the east, and return all that land to use by people/business and you might have something, but no, it was too expensive. After the consultation on a third runway it turns out that the third runway proposal (or even a fourth runway proposal past 2020) would be worse in cost than an all-new airport.
The Economist has a fantastic piece on this... I was very pleased to read that and am pondering the level of idiocy in the civil service. Who in their right mind would turn down a propo... oh never mind.
Whichever way you slice it, LHR is toast capacity-wise and it will get worse.
S.
Hang on a minute - Tons of space for lots of runways, get the Dutch in to build flood defenses, and you have an airport like AMS, move LHR to the east, and return all that land to use by people/business and you might have something, but no, it was too expensive. After the consultation on a third runway it turns out that the third runway proposal (or even a fourth runway proposal past 2020) would be worse in cost than an all-new airport.
The Economist has a fantastic piece on this... I was very pleased to read that and am pondering the level of idiocy in the civil service. Who in their right mind would turn down a propo... oh never mind.
Whichever way you slice it, LHR is toast capacity-wise and it will get worse.
S.
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Agree with VAFFPAX; London needs a new airport with the capacity to grow! Look at HKG, DEN, BKK and CDG all purpose built new airports to support future growth. Authorities in Hong Kong/Denver knew Kai Tak/Stapleton were unable to grow...thus did the sensible thing. Heathrow will get more congested; and the problems will persist/worsen.
Welcome to the UK; well at least the 2012 Olympics will only have to follow in the shoes of Beijing
....we can live upto the expections of traffic congestion, pollution, etc.
Welcome to the UK; well at least the 2012 Olympics will only have to follow in the shoes of Beijing
....we can live upto the expections of traffic congestion, pollution, etc.
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the question is how to deal with it
Just a few ideas:
Build a proper high speed train system ( eg Paris-Lyon, Barcelona-Madrid...), this will decrease the demand for this flights.
All cargo airlines to use other airports ( STN,EMA...)
Extend STN , LTN and LGW to their maximun capacities and build a high speed train conecting LHR to STN and LHR to LGW , in this way longhaul pax lands at LHR and transfer onto shorthaul flights at STN or LTN. ( Shangai airport train does 18.5 miles in 8 minutes so so you could easily do LHR-STN in under 20 min and LHR-LGW in 15minutes!
Build an underground High Speed train station( No more MAN,CDG,BRU,AMS even NCL) and make sell plane to train connection like AF does eg JFK-CDG-LYS( the last sector has an AF flight number but is infact a train service)
No hesitation on building a 3rd RWY at LHR
The goverment needs to have the authority but most importantly the leadership to carry out these works but it is time.
I understand that the cost of these measures is very high but the cost of not doing anything will be much higher very soon
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Ba have enough liability issues with the T5 fiasco to keep EU lawyers busy for weeks. If they now moved the T4 operation to T5 and it didn't work as should be and we had anything like a repeat of the opening days then BA have no way of avoiding any liability claims as they should have known there would be an issue or at the very least that the chances of an issue were far greater than reasonably acceptable.
Heads will have to roll now.......
Heads will have to roll now.......
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Terminal moves!
With BA now saying they won't be moving their long haul services from T4 to T5 until all is a little less chaotic. 
Despite AF, CO et al doing their nut, understandably.
Where does this leave the rest of the major re shuffles from T3 to T1 etc etc?
Also as an aside question to anyone in the know do they plan on getting T1 up to scratch before United and ANZ move in, or this going to be another BAA
up??
Or are these the sort of questions that should have been asked BEFORE the T5 move??
And finally on a matter of 'spin' why do BA keep reporting that T5 is now running a FULL SERVICE??...That'll be a full 100% of 35% or there abouts then!!
Despite AF, CO et al doing their nut, understandably.
Where does this leave the rest of the major re shuffles from T3 to T1 etc etc?
Also as an aside question to anyone in the know do they plan on getting T1 up to scratch before United and ANZ move in, or this going to be another BAA
up??Or are these the sort of questions that should have been asked BEFORE the T5 move??
And finally on a matter of 'spin' why do BA keep reporting that T5 is now running a FULL SERVICE??...That'll be a full 100% of 35% or there abouts then!!
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There are numerous threads on why the above won't work in the UK. I suggest some of you do a search.
I guees is the same reason why the euro would never work in the UK..., (check the latest exchange rate...)
How could a rail link between Glasgow and London in just 3 hours and 15 minutes not be a success in the long term? The UK is the European country with fewer high speed train lines per capita, maybe this fact has something to do with airport overcrowding??
From Wikipedia, the next article makes for some interesting reading:
Aircraft
Optimal distance
HSR is best suited for journeys of 2 - 3 hours (150-600 km or about 100-400 miles), for which the train can beat both air and car in this range. When traveling less than about 650 km (400 mi), the process of checking in and going through security screening at airports, as well as the journey to the airport itself makes the total air journey time no faster than HSR.
However, unless air travel is severely congested, merely providing a comparable service is often not a compelling financial basis for build an HSR system from scratch. As a rule of thumb, rail journeys need to be three hours or less to be competitive with air travel on journey time.
There are routes where high-speed trains have totally beaten air transport, so that there is no air connection anymore. Examples are Paris-Brussels and Cologne-Frankfurt. If the train stops at a big airport, like Paris and Frankfurt, these short distance airplanes lose an extra advantage for the many travellers who want to go to the airport for a long-distance journey. Air plane tickets can include a train segment for the journey, with guarranteed rebooking if the connection is missed, like normal air travel.
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BMI CEO not happy
BMI CEO has just been on Radio 4 PM Programme and been very frank about the situation related to BA not moving.
It seems that BA and BAA have essentially informed the other airport users as to what is to happen without any consulation.
That would seem to sum up the typical arrogance of both parties
Try the Listen Again feature on BBC Radio 4 for a very interesting interview
TTWTDI
It seems that BA and BAA have essentially informed the other airport users as to what is to happen without any consulation.
That would seem to sum up the typical arrogance of both parties
Try the Listen Again feature on BBC Radio 4 for a very interesting interview
TTWTDI
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Was always going to be delayed after the problems of the opening. Not sure why BMI are complaining as they aren't really affected, they should have benefited from BA moving most of its flights out of T1. I suppose BMI are sticking up for the other airlines.
I think though they should be directing their fire at the BAA as I think a lot of the problems, such as the baggage system are down to them.
I think though they should be directing their fire at the BAA as I think a lot of the problems, such as the baggage system are down to them.
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At 1737 today I received an email from BA telling me that "all or part" of my booked flight to IAD will now be going through T4 instead of T5.
I'm not sure which is Terminal is worst, but at least they're letting the paying punters know what's going on, and for that I'm grateful.
I'm not sure which is Terminal is worst, but at least they're letting the paying punters know what's going on, and for that I'm grateful.
Last edited by Two-Tone-Blue; 11th Apr 2008 at 16:42. Reason: Dreadful typing!
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eagle121 no one will take you seriously if your source is wikipedia. The UK has I beleive the densest population centres in Europe. No one is going to be driving a high speed rail link straight through major population centres any time soon.
The thing about France and Germany? They're B I G G E R with more room......hence we get Runway 3 at Heathrow. Besides, taking out GLA / EDI / NCL / MME / LBE / CDG / BRU and the slots will go right to long haul and more flights. Get real.
The thing about France and Germany? They're B I G G E R with more room......hence we get Runway 3 at Heathrow. Besides, taking out GLA / EDI / NCL / MME / LBE / CDG / BRU and the slots will go right to long haul and more flights. Get real.
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I think it was sensible for BA to defer moving to T5 with longhaul. If they'd moved at the end of April then BAA would have messed them about for months. As it is hopefully the other airlines like Air France and Lufthansa will pile some pressure on BAA to get things working properly as they'll be held up by BA not wanting to move till it's all sorted.
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eagle21....
Well, that'll free up, what, four slots a day. Drop in the ocean.
VAFF,
Where will the tens of thousands of workers who currently work at Heathrow live? How about the tens of thousands of people who currently work for businesses wholly or partly serving Heathrow live and work? What will all the companies who have located their corporate HQs in the M4/M3/M40 corridor do?
All cargo airlines to use other airports ( STN,EMA...)
VAFF,
Hang on a minute - Tons of space for lots of runways, get the Dutch in to build flood defenses, and you have an airport like AMS, move LHR to the east, and return all that land to use by people/business and you might have something, but no, it was too expensive. After the consultation on a third runway it turns out that the third runway proposal (or even a fourth runway proposal past 2020) would be worse in cost than an all-new airport.
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eagle121 no one will take you seriously if your source is wikipedia
LHR, LGW, LCY,LTN
M25 a joke
M1 a bigger joke
Very slow and smelly trains
London underground the best joke ever!
NHS I will die laughing!
At least there is a very good ferry service, but the rest of the crountry seems to be collapsing, just look at the £$ v € rate now , it was time to invest some time ago in improving these areas but someone decided to spend the money in Iraq instead...
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Where will the tens of thousands of workers who currently work at Heathrow live? How about the tens of thousands of people who currently work for businesses wholly or partly serving Heathrow live and work? What will all the companies who have located their corporate HQs in the M4/M3/M40 corridor do?
What did all those employees working in other airports in the world do when they decided to open a new bigger airport?? eg, athen, Paris, Hong Kong , Tokyo...
Do you think those countries are suffering as much from air traffic congestion now? The answer is no.
Some people just love living in the past, I guess this is the reason why nothing has been done yet. Only T5 " Ontime & Onbugdet "
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We are a victim of a massively overheating economy in recent years where evryone and their granny was flying through the South East.
The Underground? No investment for a generation by the Tories.
The NHS? Money pissed up a wall by Labour, little to show for it.
The motorways? Can't fix it as in reality, way too many cars on the road.
Too many folk, too little space.
The Underground? No investment for a generation by the Tories.
The NHS? Money pissed up a wall by Labour, little to show for it.
The motorways? Can't fix it as in reality, way too many cars on the road.
Too many folk, too little space.
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 14th Apr 2008 at 12:08.
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Too many folk, too little space
But soon all those immigrants and UK citizens might start leaving the UK in mass if things start getting worse and hopefully things will start getting better then.
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Why is no-one leaning on Martin Broughton? He hired Walsh, if it wasn't him, it would've been the next mad axe man. This is Broughton's agenda, his design.
Shoey, you have your man, go and find him.
Shoey, you have your man, go and find him.