BMI
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: London
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LH Longhaul
I think there is only one thing LH will do with bmi slots and that is to recreate a minature Frankfurt hub from LHR. They are only intrested in competing with BA and squeezing KLM into the middle of europe while they take an offensive from the north east and west (SAS, BMI, AUSTRIAN AND SN).
The money is only in longhaul and unlike BMI LH have the resources, captial, and aircraft to do this.
This takeover has not come to a surprise to anyone in the know and it was always just a matter of when.
People seem to forget that Luffty have had a say in bmi operations for the last 10 years and had quite a big influence. They will have built up everything they need to hit the ground running when the handover takes place and undoubtably there will be a methodical plan in place.
As for as Man longhaul operations go LHR crew have always speculated about MAN closing (Jealousy methinks). What they fail to see is that ORD has been the mainstay of bmi longhaul ops and has been very successful, I would be suprised if Luffty let it go. It is true that Luffty have never been happy about Vegas and the Carribean because they see it not in the remit of a business airline. This was to an extent that Luffty offered bmi 5 A330's 3 years ago if they pulled out of those routes. The problem was that there was very little bmi could do with that offer at the time.
Whatever the plan, Mr Ridgeway needs to stop be so pathetic and looking so desperate. Luffty will take VS over only when it is an advantage to them and VS only offer 1 advantage to luffty and that is aircraft, a ready made fleet. His arrogance that VS longhaul and bmi shorthaul will work well together is laughable! There will be no bmi shorthaul left apart from some trunk feeders. Bmi will be longhaul and if VS is not part of the deal bmi will be competing with VS!
Get a grip Mr Ridgeway and realise that VS is not crucial or important in the grand scheme of things and if you are not careful VS will be left outside all alone in a very cold winter. This is not an attack on people that work for VS before anyone says that no one ever wants to see airlines go bust or people loose there jobs. That is why Mr Ridgeway needs to stop spurting rubbish and get down to keeping VS going and into a secure position!
To all those at bmi all the best and i hope everything works out! I am sure it will.
The money is only in longhaul and unlike BMI LH have the resources, captial, and aircraft to do this.
This takeover has not come to a surprise to anyone in the know and it was always just a matter of when.
People seem to forget that Luffty have had a say in bmi operations for the last 10 years and had quite a big influence. They will have built up everything they need to hit the ground running when the handover takes place and undoubtably there will be a methodical plan in place.
As for as Man longhaul operations go LHR crew have always speculated about MAN closing (Jealousy methinks). What they fail to see is that ORD has been the mainstay of bmi longhaul ops and has been very successful, I would be suprised if Luffty let it go. It is true that Luffty have never been happy about Vegas and the Carribean because they see it not in the remit of a business airline. This was to an extent that Luffty offered bmi 5 A330's 3 years ago if they pulled out of those routes. The problem was that there was very little bmi could do with that offer at the time.
Whatever the plan, Mr Ridgeway needs to stop be so pathetic and looking so desperate. Luffty will take VS over only when it is an advantage to them and VS only offer 1 advantage to luffty and that is aircraft, a ready made fleet. His arrogance that VS longhaul and bmi shorthaul will work well together is laughable! There will be no bmi shorthaul left apart from some trunk feeders. Bmi will be longhaul and if VS is not part of the deal bmi will be competing with VS!
Get a grip Mr Ridgeway and realise that VS is not crucial or important in the grand scheme of things and if you are not careful VS will be left outside all alone in a very cold winter. This is not an attack on people that work for VS before anyone says that no one ever wants to see airlines go bust or people loose there jobs. That is why Mr Ridgeway needs to stop spurting rubbish and get down to keeping VS going and into a secure position!
To all those at bmi all the best and i hope everything works out! I am sure it will.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: London
Age: 37
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes it is tru Lufty dont like the leisure route, but LAS has proven its worth over the last few years.
Its one of only 2 direct uk links to LAS, and does have some good profit margins.
I could see BG/ANU/UVF going, but LAS might stay, if they can find another route to shadow the LAS A330 (poss MIA or 2nd Frequency to ORD)
If not then I could see the LAS route cut also and the A330 shifted elsewhere.
No matter what anyone say, I would be shocked if BD/LH pull ORD, due to yeild, the UA ord Feed and so on.
LH is a business airline and ORD is a business destination
Its one of only 2 direct uk links to LAS, and does have some good profit margins.
I could see BG/ANU/UVF going, but LAS might stay, if they can find another route to shadow the LAS A330 (poss MIA or 2nd Frequency to ORD)
If not then I could see the LAS route cut also and the A330 shifted elsewhere.
No matter what anyone say, I would be shocked if BD/LH pull ORD, due to yeild, the UA ord Feed and so on.
LH is a business airline and ORD is a business destination
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've been reading the threads on pprune regarding the Lufthansa take over of BMI, and the effect it may have on bmibaby! There is a lot of speculation about the future of BMI, BMI regional and bmibaby, and speculate is all anyone can do! Lufthansa probably don't know what they will do with bmibaby at this time, so we will have to wait and see! However, if my facts are correct, the takeover is not completed till January 16th, and I can't envisage Lufty doing to much tampering for the first few months, which will then be spring. with a summer ahead, I would like to think that bmibaby will be allowed to complete the summer season at least, and then assess the future of baby in the Autumn.
Then with the demise of other less fortunate carriers, and the recession bottoming out at its "worse", and with the return to financial normality, just around the corner, (albeit another year or two maximum), I find it hard to believe they will let the opportunity slip away! Here is a perfect opportunity, to have a stake in the strongest low cost market in Europe if not the world (the UK), by default!! Lufthansa's baby is the LHR slots, and access to the UK, by taking up SMB's, but they will be entirely aware of the potential within the UK regional market, and also the UK-europe loco model, that will give them a finger in all the pies! BMI will still carry its brand name, as will baby, nothing drastic will change outside of LHR. The Luftwaffe will not want to appear barbaric, but the babys daddy now has deeper pockets, and I really believe that baby will not be "adopted", or "cot death it", as some pruners have written, but will grow up to be a nice little gem! Thats my optimistic speculation, and I hope it's how it happens!
Then with the demise of other less fortunate carriers, and the recession bottoming out at its "worse", and with the return to financial normality, just around the corner, (albeit another year or two maximum), I find it hard to believe they will let the opportunity slip away! Here is a perfect opportunity, to have a stake in the strongest low cost market in Europe if not the world (the UK), by default!! Lufthansa's baby is the LHR slots, and access to the UK, by taking up SMB's, but they will be entirely aware of the potential within the UK regional market, and also the UK-europe loco model, that will give them a finger in all the pies! BMI will still carry its brand name, as will baby, nothing drastic will change outside of LHR. The Luftwaffe will not want to appear barbaric, but the babys daddy now has deeper pockets, and I really believe that baby will not be "adopted", or "cot death it", as some pruners have written, but will grow up to be a nice little gem! Thats my optimistic speculation, and I hope it's how it happens!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
senior laid off
'my friend has just been told he will no longer have a job from next week he is a senior cabin crew for baby'
Andy1205
Well indeed I am also Senior Cabin Crew aka Cabin Manager based at CWL, I am certainly not aware of anybody being laid off within the next week or at all for that matter.
Who is you friend maybe we can shed some light on this situation?
Andy1205
Well indeed I am also Senior Cabin Crew aka Cabin Manager based at CWL, I am certainly not aware of anybody being laid off within the next week or at all for that matter.
Who is you friend maybe we can shed some light on this situation?
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Solihull
Age: 60
Posts: 3,326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BMI Baby
Dalec
Feel free to answer this or not (asking as SLF only), have BMI
Baby management issued any separate information re the future
of BMI baby within LH?
I don't expect any specifics after a few days but this sale is hardly
a surprise with the "put" option starting in June and the "call" option
date fast approaching anyway you would think that LH would know exactly what they expect to be happening with baby, especially if
they are as half as efficient as they are made out to be.
I for one won't be booking my summer hols without some reassurrance
although I realise that the workers jobs are the more important factor here.
Pete
Feel free to answer this or not (asking as SLF only), have BMI
Baby management issued any separate information re the future
of BMI baby within LH?
I don't expect any specifics after a few days but this sale is hardly
a surprise with the "put" option starting in June and the "call" option
date fast approaching anyway you would think that LH would know exactly what they expect to be happening with baby, especially if
they are as half as efficient as they are made out to be.
I for one won't be booking my summer hols without some reassurrance
although I realise that the workers jobs are the more important factor here.
Pete
Mach 3
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Stratosphere
Posts: 622
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A plethora of opinions...
The thread only appears to demonstrate that no-one has a clue what will happen, whereupon one ought not to be to despondant, but neither ought one to be to optimistic.
Next year ain't looking bright...
The thread only appears to demonstrate that no-one has a clue what will happen, whereupon one ought not to be to despondant, but neither ought one to be to optimistic.
Next year ain't looking bright...
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Other than the general BMI staff announcement nothing has officially been said about the future of any section of the BMI Group. However, the "unofficial" concensus is exactly as babymike says. It may well be that LH will eventually unload Baby, Regional and rearrange mainline. If you believe the Daily Mail you shouldn't book a flight with anyone ever again because you will lose all your money and probably have your house reposesed at the same time. Olton, I think you'll be ok for next summer. Reasoning :
1) LH are unlikely to take operational control of the bmi group until the summer season and that's the worst time to be messing around with an operation.
2) LH are not BA. They will not panic sell or panic throw away. They have proved that already with other companies. They may well wish to recoup some of their investment by selling off baby and regional but at the same time they will want to maximise that return. At present airlines are worth nothing (that's why they're buying all the ones they can get their hands on!) and no one who would be interested in Baby could get the finance. LH don't HAVE to sell and don't have to panic about massive losses being incurred.
They can easily sit on it in its current form until someone comes along with the right amount of money unlike BA who will give anything away and pay you to take it !
3) LH have got interests in LCCs in europe and have not sold off others even when they have been loss making. They are a forward looking company which is why they are currently engaged in their blitzkreig of the european airline industry when most people are running scared. The people pushing the get rid of baby and regional line do not have German accents but have a mainline twang. It may make a degree of business sense for FlyBe to come in for Regional but I think Baby would be just too difficult a pill for them to swallow especially after their experience with BACON. LH won't pay them to take either company off their hands, and hand them a big profit to impress people with, they are business men. In the same time BA have messed around with a couple of old 757s LH have built a european empire !
Of course like everything else on this site that is just my opinion having seen all of the evidence and information but I still think there is unlikely to be any major changes in ownership, bases or routes until next autumn.
1) LH are unlikely to take operational control of the bmi group until the summer season and that's the worst time to be messing around with an operation.
2) LH are not BA. They will not panic sell or panic throw away. They have proved that already with other companies. They may well wish to recoup some of their investment by selling off baby and regional but at the same time they will want to maximise that return. At present airlines are worth nothing (that's why they're buying all the ones they can get their hands on!) and no one who would be interested in Baby could get the finance. LH don't HAVE to sell and don't have to panic about massive losses being incurred.
They can easily sit on it in its current form until someone comes along with the right amount of money unlike BA who will give anything away and pay you to take it !
3) LH have got interests in LCCs in europe and have not sold off others even when they have been loss making. They are a forward looking company which is why they are currently engaged in their blitzkreig of the european airline industry when most people are running scared. The people pushing the get rid of baby and regional line do not have German accents but have a mainline twang. It may make a degree of business sense for FlyBe to come in for Regional but I think Baby would be just too difficult a pill for them to swallow especially after their experience with BACON. LH won't pay them to take either company off their hands, and hand them a big profit to impress people with, they are business men. In the same time BA have messed around with a couple of old 757s LH have built a european empire !
Of course like everything else on this site that is just my opinion having seen all of the evidence and information but I still think there is unlikely to be any major changes in ownership, bases or routes until next autumn.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: West Yorkshire Zone
Posts: 976
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, reading all of this it seems that LH don't have any interest in 'Leisure' routes.
But 'Leisure' routes make up for MAN's 75% of traffic.
How can they possibly introduce more flights to FRA, HAN etc.
There is already sufficient numbers of flights by LH daily from MAN.
I think what will happen here, Is LH will totally wipe out BD & all it's hard work over the last 40 + years.
NO, I know think this deal is going to be 'VERY' bad for everyone in the UK.
And the deal will probably give 'Sir Michael' an early bath.
I assume he will be well 'compensated' for the deal with LH.
I pressume the whole deal will include BD, BD Regional, Bmi Baby.
Knowing LH, They will probably want the whole set of operations.
I guess this is the 'Germans' repayment for WW2 - If we can't beat them - take them over?
The Germans didn't like us in 1939 - So there not going to like us now are they??
And Vice Versa.
But 'Leisure' routes make up for MAN's 75% of traffic.
How can they possibly introduce more flights to FRA, HAN etc.
There is already sufficient numbers of flights by LH daily from MAN.
I think what will happen here, Is LH will totally wipe out BD & all it's hard work over the last 40 + years.
NO, I know think this deal is going to be 'VERY' bad for everyone in the UK.
And the deal will probably give 'Sir Michael' an early bath.
I assume he will be well 'compensated' for the deal with LH.
I pressume the whole deal will include BD, BD Regional, Bmi Baby.
Knowing LH, They will probably want the whole set of operations.
I guess this is the 'Germans' repayment for WW2 - If we can't beat them - take them over?
The Germans didn't like us in 1939 - So there not going to like us now are they??
And Vice Versa.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: 35,000 feet
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bmi / Lufthansa Future
Lets face facts. No one here knows what the future has in store for any of the bmi divisions. If we did, we would not be writing about it on the internet.
I remain very hopeful that Lufthansa will reinvigorate the bmi group and provide a new sense of purpose and a definite direction - after all, bmi seems to have been the lost sheep and totally reactionary for years.
There will most likely be job losses as part of this streamlining as happens with most large organisations facing change in difficult times.
As for comments about payback for WWII, I thought this was a forum for industry PROFESSIONALS. Comments like this are childish and laughable.
Rant over.
I remain very hopeful that Lufthansa will reinvigorate the bmi group and provide a new sense of purpose and a definite direction - after all, bmi seems to have been the lost sheep and totally reactionary for years.
There will most likely be job losses as part of this streamlining as happens with most large organisations facing change in difficult times.
As for comments about payback for WWII, I thought this was a forum for industry PROFESSIONALS. Comments like this are childish and laughable.
Rant over.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: West Yorkshire Zone
Posts: 976
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, Maybe childish.
But I still think there is some resentment, When you are in Ca'n Pastilla Or abroad generally and there body language attitude says it all.
I can go on....
Rant Over.
But I still think there is some resentment, When you are in Ca'n Pastilla Or abroad generally and there body language attitude says it all.
I can go on....
Rant Over.
LHR-TLV going up to 2 x daily with a new overnight flight, both flown by A330
LHR-CAI going up to A330.
Takes up the two A330s moving from Manchester into Heathrow from Summer 2009. Third A330 to stay on LHR/Saudi.
LHR-CAI going up to A330.
Takes up the two A330s moving from Manchester into Heathrow from Summer 2009. Third A330 to stay on LHR/Saudi.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: London
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rant
I feel ashamed that i am having to lower myself to the semantics of a rant to put facts straight.
Bmi was British Midland Airways and still to this date operates as BMA and has been a conglomeration of companies from the 1930's. Just as BA has come around.
BMI Regional has been a company formed from the likes of a take over from business air etc. They DO NOT have the same AOC as BMA!
bmi baby was a lost cost airline that was launched a few years after 2000 to quell a little bit of the low cost enslaught. It has a different AOC to BMA (bmi) and regional.
For those of you not in aviation reading this, to clarify they are all seperate airlines the only common point is they have the same owner!
It is the marketing department of the repected airlines that have confused this point, yes the exact same gifted marketing depatment that came up with the possibly worst slogan ever produced
"Londons second favorite airline..................bmi"
ps i did marketing for my A-levels and i can tell you now that slogan would have resulted in a U grade!
I digrese what is important here is how LH makes money, they are ruthless and there are to many optimists that seem to work for baby or regional. Not to be rude but time to face facts, if you ran an airline what would you keep honestly? LH will keep bmi LHR ops and poss some bmi man longhaul destinations such as ord, they have also been pushing for India and Pakistan from Man so dont be so quick to think Man is loosing any A/C!
As far as baby and regional go will they seriously in your heart of hearts make LH money? You decide your answer is no then you will agree with every city analyist going!
bmi (ex BMA) if it keeps it name will not be recognisable in 12-18 months time!
Speculation on BMA is not necessary the writing is on the wall! As for regional and baby it is not clear LH have so many options right now!
Good luck to everyone affected!
Bmi was British Midland Airways and still to this date operates as BMA and has been a conglomeration of companies from the 1930's. Just as BA has come around.
BMI Regional has been a company formed from the likes of a take over from business air etc. They DO NOT have the same AOC as BMA!
bmi baby was a lost cost airline that was launched a few years after 2000 to quell a little bit of the low cost enslaught. It has a different AOC to BMA (bmi) and regional.
For those of you not in aviation reading this, to clarify they are all seperate airlines the only common point is they have the same owner!
It is the marketing department of the repected airlines that have confused this point, yes the exact same gifted marketing depatment that came up with the possibly worst slogan ever produced
"Londons second favorite airline..................bmi"
ps i did marketing for my A-levels and i can tell you now that slogan would have resulted in a U grade!
I digrese what is important here is how LH makes money, they are ruthless and there are to many optimists that seem to work for baby or regional. Not to be rude but time to face facts, if you ran an airline what would you keep honestly? LH will keep bmi LHR ops and poss some bmi man longhaul destinations such as ord, they have also been pushing for India and Pakistan from Man so dont be so quick to think Man is loosing any A/C!
As far as baby and regional go will they seriously in your heart of hearts make LH money? You decide your answer is no then you will agree with every city analyist going!
bmi (ex BMA) if it keeps it name will not be recognisable in 12-18 months time!
Speculation on BMA is not necessary the writing is on the wall! As for regional and baby it is not clear LH have so many options right now!
Good luck to everyone affected!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I feel ashamed that i am having to lower myself to the semantics of a rant to put facts straight.
As for city analysts.....
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Topslide 6
Do you work for bmi? Maverick has posted the most sense on here or other threads so far and as a "rumour network" is entitled also to give his opinions whether backed up by fact or stats, it matters not.
BYALPHAINDIA your fishing trip/b*****ks post needs a little more substance if you wish to wind up further the poor souls at MAN who fear the worst for their jobs at this time.
Do you work for bmi? Maverick has posted the most sense on here or other threads so far and as a "rumour network" is entitled also to give his opinions whether backed up by fact or stats, it matters not.
BYALPHAINDIA your fishing trip/b*****ks post needs a little more substance if you wish to wind up further the poor souls at MAN who fear the worst for their jobs at this time.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agree Topslide - BYALPHAINDIA has ben shown up by his complete lack of knowledge about bmi and its affairs by insisting Austin Reed was still in charge at bmi! His rants just go to show his level of mentality!
He/she's is the only post that has marred upto now a good selection of views.
Like many are saying - cheeky visual / SR71 / Mod Kit -
very few are in ''the circle of trust'' and LH have kept very quiet in these first couple of days- (would be good to hear from any LH employees for there opinion)
In the end we all knew it was coming and shouldnt be surprised. Most I think will be glad its LH. Whether this will mean the A330's don't now go south Im unsure (sadly) but business is business and was always the intention.
With regards to bmi regional and baby - I like others haven't a clue - and will leave it to those more intelligent to discuss than me. Good luck all.
IMHO
He/she's is the only post that has marred upto now a good selection of views.
Like many are saying - cheeky visual / SR71 / Mod Kit -
very few are in ''the circle of trust'' and LH have kept very quiet in these first couple of days- (would be good to hear from any LH employees for there opinion)
In the end we all knew it was coming and shouldnt be surprised. Most I think will be glad its LH. Whether this will mean the A330's don't now go south Im unsure (sadly) but business is business and was always the intention.
With regards to bmi regional and baby - I like others haven't a clue - and will leave it to those more intelligent to discuss than me. Good luck all.
IMHO
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Somewhere between T1 and T3
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do laugh at how the press reported the surprise take over of bmi by LH. Well it's happened so all we can do is sit and wait.
The current marketing slogans round LHR are using a simular line that Avis used a few years ago saying we are second but we are the best at what we do. As for 'Heathrows Second Fav Airline' interesting take but it can back fire on the public if they start to see bmi as number 2. I do think the bmi marketing dept needs a kick sometimes.
As for the posts about the Germans. Regular flyers with bmi are already making comment on the fact that LH will be getting control. Some are not happy, while others are.
The staff at Donnington are more at risk than anyone else seeing the Hall is the property of SMB himself.
Watch this space..........
The current marketing slogans round LHR are using a simular line that Avis used a few years ago saying we are second but we are the best at what we do. As for 'Heathrows Second Fav Airline' interesting take but it can back fire on the public if they start to see bmi as number 2. I do think the bmi marketing dept needs a kick sometimes.
As for the posts about the Germans. Regular flyers with bmi are already making comment on the fact that LH will be getting control. Some are not happy, while others are.
The staff at Donnington are more at risk than anyone else seeing the Hall is the property of SMB himself.
Watch this space..........
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UAE
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maverick,
bmi regional are the most profitable part of the bmi group so they probably would make money for Lufthansa. Whether they fit into what Lufthansa want out of the bmi group remains to be seen but I would suggest that it is fairly likely that regional and baby will be sold to another party.
bmi regional are the most profitable part of the bmi group so they probably would make money for Lufthansa. Whether they fit into what Lufthansa want out of the bmi group remains to be seen but I would suggest that it is fairly likely that regional and baby will be sold to another party.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Age: 42
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This obviously could be totally coincidental, but I have heard that Andrew Strong and several other "senior" guys where passengers on a BE flight from FRA to MAN a day or two ago. Could they have been meeting with LH bosses regarding an acquision of BMI Regional? Or maybe they just went on a jolly to FRA for the beer... who knows! 