BMI
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If they cut the route from 6 to 4 rotations and put it on the Emb then history shows it is only a matter of time before they close it altogether. It would also create a nightmare for bmi as they have Airbus pilots based in GLA for bmi and only bmi Regional operate the Emb. How's that going to work?
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Four a day on the ERJ-145 versus 9 a day on the Airbus with BA means the point to point traffic will use BA, it's a no brainer. Connecting passengers on STAR would use bmi but would there be enough traffic to justify the use of slots given the price increases on the cost of using "toy aircraft" into Heathrow?
* BAA's view not mine, I love the flying experience on the ERJ-145.
BA still have more way flights out of GLA than bmi and yet the BA pilot base closed years ago so it's not impossible. All the LHR away from base night stoppers use hotel accomadation with them so I wonder if bmi would not see that as an option?
If they go ERJ only like MAN the route's dead as the losses will only head South with that business model. I actually don't see BA raising fares too much as they still have strong competition with easyJet on LTN, STN and LGW
I could also book LHR-MME after we knew it was dead as well. Indeed I had a booking that the useless Indian call centre said would operate even though the aircraft had been re-allocated.
* BAA's view not mine, I love the flying experience on the ERJ-145.
BA still have more way flights out of GLA than bmi and yet the BA pilot base closed years ago so it's not impossible. All the LHR away from base night stoppers use hotel accomadation with them so I wonder if bmi would not see that as an option?
If they go ERJ only like MAN the route's dead as the losses will only head South with that business model. I actually don't see BA raising fares too much as they still have strong competition with easyJet on LTN, STN and LGW
Now a simple yes or no question; can you book LHR-GLA online now with bmi?
Join Date: Mar 2010
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4 a day EMB would ruin the route.
I cant see that happening the BD1 on Monday had 126 in flex economy and 18 in economy, Tuesday had 112 in Flex and 24 in Econ so either way that will stay an airbus as it surely produces results.
BD1 always does well as its departs before BA and pax will pay the flex fares. Its the mid morning and afternoon rotations that are killing the route.
It has been 7 rotations recently when EDI is 6. If it goes down to 6 and with new routes like BASEL connecting via LHR (rather than LCY) and Tripoli it may just (only just) save it from being doomed forever.
Its a catch 22 - reduce service (take away full service for non frequent fliers) = lose some pax, reduce service further (take away food for frequent flyers in economy) = lose some pax, drop routes (AMS, BRU, CDG, TLV, Kiev etc) lose more pax, drop frequency, lose more pax.
The increase in service for full fare economy has probably won back some pax from BA but only on the commuter routes.
They need to keep frequency, increase the product offering in economy (a refreshment would be a start), improve lounge offering (how costly are soup, fresh bread, maybe sandwiches to provide), launch more routes (which they are working on) and they should get the pax back.
I cant see that happening the BD1 on Monday had 126 in flex economy and 18 in economy, Tuesday had 112 in Flex and 24 in Econ so either way that will stay an airbus as it surely produces results.
BD1 always does well as its departs before BA and pax will pay the flex fares. Its the mid morning and afternoon rotations that are killing the route.
It has been 7 rotations recently when EDI is 6. If it goes down to 6 and with new routes like BASEL connecting via LHR (rather than LCY) and Tripoli it may just (only just) save it from being doomed forever.
Its a catch 22 - reduce service (take away full service for non frequent fliers) = lose some pax, reduce service further (take away food for frequent flyers in economy) = lose some pax, drop routes (AMS, BRU, CDG, TLV, Kiev etc) lose more pax, drop frequency, lose more pax.
The increase in service for full fare economy has probably won back some pax from BA but only on the commuter routes.
They need to keep frequency, increase the product offering in economy (a refreshment would be a start), improve lounge offering (how costly are soup, fresh bread, maybe sandwiches to provide), launch more routes (which they are working on) and they should get the pax back.
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I'm not sure what the Scottish Parliament can do to influence BAA at LHR - I very much doubt that BAA will play a blind bit of notice to any protestations from Holyrood!
It certainly would appear to be a questionable tactic to reduce to a 4 a day EMB-145 service. Given the vastly increased costs mentioned for operating regional jets into LHR, this is surely likely to lead to a decrease in profitability rather than an increase, although the flex econ pax numbers mentioned earlier might mean BD could get away with charging a kings ransom for the peak time flights!
Presumably doing so would mean the mainline base would close, but the regional one would expand slightly?
To be honest, if domestic routes are losing as much as claimed they might as well just ditch them now and look to feed traffic through FRA etc instead, paricularly when the new runway comes on-line. What is the nature of the STAR requirement for at least 4 daily to LHR - can BD get out of that easily?
Whatever they're doing, they surely need to announce soon if it's to be in place for the spring timetable.
It certainly would appear to be a questionable tactic to reduce to a 4 a day EMB-145 service. Given the vastly increased costs mentioned for operating regional jets into LHR, this is surely likely to lead to a decrease in profitability rather than an increase, although the flex econ pax numbers mentioned earlier might mean BD could get away with charging a kings ransom for the peak time flights!
Presumably doing so would mean the mainline base would close, but the regional one would expand slightly?
To be honest, if domestic routes are losing as much as claimed they might as well just ditch them now and look to feed traffic through FRA etc instead, paricularly when the new runway comes on-line. What is the nature of the STAR requirement for at least 4 daily to LHR - can BD get out of that easily?
Whatever they're doing, they surely need to announce soon if it's to be in place for the spring timetable.
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More comment about bmi/BAA on the front page of todays business section in the Telegraph.
BAA fees could force airline bmi to quit Heathrow hub - Telegraph
BAA fees could force airline bmi to quit Heathrow hub - Telegraph
Last edited by Nubboy; 24th Jan 2011 at 08:34.
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Whilst one can understand bmi sorry British Midlands frustration, it must be equally frustrating for BAA and its Spanish owners. They bought it at a time when R3 looked likely and probably paid too much for it. Their revenue comes from a few limited sources the main one being retail rentals, the rents are based i understand to some extent on passenger volume through LHR, so the only way is to grow volume and 380's carry a lot more people than an Embraer
Airports such as AMS/CDG have spare capacity and have no need to structure their prices in the way that LHR must, the bottom line is that the present Government of the UK have called it wrong on LHR, but i see no chance of a change of mind in the current term, unless there is a change of Government (God help us) so any new runway could not be open before 2023-25, 3 years in planning and 5 in build
British Midlands owner LH will be planning out to at least 10 years and they to must get maximum return on their investment in bmi at LHR and that can't be done on ERJ flying out of LHR to the likes of MAN/GLA/EDI but they wont want to give up on the domestics either so my guess is that plan B will be implemented, what ever plan B is? but reading between the lines and what some on Pprune who seem to be in the know have posted a second London BMI hub probably STN might be on the cards.
Airports such as AMS/CDG have spare capacity and have no need to structure their prices in the way that LHR must, the bottom line is that the present Government of the UK have called it wrong on LHR, but i see no chance of a change of mind in the current term, unless there is a change of Government (God help us) so any new runway could not be open before 2023-25, 3 years in planning and 5 in build
British Midlands owner LH will be planning out to at least 10 years and they to must get maximum return on their investment in bmi at LHR and that can't be done on ERJ flying out of LHR to the likes of MAN/GLA/EDI but they wont want to give up on the domestics either so my guess is that plan B will be implemented, what ever plan B is? but reading between the lines and what some on Pprune who seem to be in the know have posted a second London BMI hub probably STN might be on the cards.
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so my guess is that plan B will be implemented, what ever plan B is?
Wolfgang Prock-Schauer, the airline's chief executive, said bmi had drawn up an alternative strategy which would see passengers from British regional airports being funnelled through hubs operated by its parent company, Lufthansa, in continental Europe.
Bmi would use the slots freed at Heathrow for more profitable routes to the Middle East and Africa. "In business you always have to be prepared for every scenario," he said. "If this doesn't get reversed we have a plan ready to shift capacity to more promising routes in continental Europe and the Middle East. Traffic can then be routed from the UK regions," he added.
Mr Prock-Schauer said this was a "plan B". Even if it were implemented, bmi – which is being rebranded as British Midland International – would still retain a strong presence in the United Kingdom, serving major cities such as Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Belfast.
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Dave Clark Fife
Implicit in what appears to have been said, is that they will use LHR slots for more profitable routes to the Middle East and Africa, thereby implying that other routes ie domestics will be reduced or cut and feed long haul traffic from the regions to other LH/Star hubs, yet retain a presence in domestic flights from the regional airports.
The loads from the likes of EDI/GLA/MAN/BHD/ABZ that are going long haul are bound to be small, so if you feed other European hubs and you are using LHR slots for new routes it would mean most if not all feeder traffic into LHR would be at end, i think the days of British Midland bases at these out station is at an end.
I cannot see BAA being pressured to change it mind on this, Scotland will still have direct access to LHR with BA from GLA/EDI/ABZ, I doubt that BA will join bmi in its case against BAA over these charges, of more interest is what routes to London, other than LHR will bmi be doing and who will fly them, bmi, baby or Regional
The loads from the likes of EDI/GLA/MAN/BHD/ABZ that are going long haul are bound to be small, so if you feed other European hubs and you are using LHR slots for new routes it would mean most if not all feeder traffic into LHR would be at end, i think the days of British Midland bases at these out station is at an end.
I cannot see BAA being pressured to change it mind on this, Scotland will still have direct access to LHR with BA from GLA/EDI/ABZ, I doubt that BA will join bmi in its case against BAA over these charges, of more interest is what routes to London, other than LHR will bmi be doing and who will fly them, bmi, baby or Regional
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I think you will find that MAN/BHX become strong British Midland bases as they
will be operating on behalf of a number of Star Alliance carriers i:e LH/OS/LX/SN
to FRA/VIE/BSL ex MAN and FRA/BRU ex BHX
Ian B
will be operating on behalf of a number of Star Alliance carriers i:e LH/OS/LX/SN
to FRA/VIE/BSL ex MAN and FRA/BRU ex BHX
Ian B
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BMI and Regional Routes to LHR
Shame Glasgow is not working for BMI and may go - seems like only yesterday that British Midland was fighting a big battle to be allowed to compete with the BA Shuttle from LHR to Man, BFS, Edin and Glasgow and with BA and EI to Dublin. It acquired more DC9's (including some from Austrian or Finnair I think I recall to operate the routes once it won the battle. In those days it was 7 or 8 flights per day plus the same from BA (usually on 757's) but of course that was before Ryanair and Easyjet and Dan Air to LGW was the only alternative.
Last edited by clareview; 24th Jan 2011 at 22:28.
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So plan B means all of the UK regional airports would feed their connecting traffic to a nearby Lufthansa hub on the continent (I assume BRU as this is the nearest to LHR, as well as FRA as this is the main hub), while BD at LHR would focus on O&D routes alone then?
I think it is a good plan actually, as it makes use of the BMI slots at LHR far more intelligently and profitably, while not causing much problems for the connecting traffic from regional airports. Have a look at how well KL is doing in the UK with this concept.
Let's face it: LHR isn't the most convenient place to connect at and it's not like passing through BRU for instance is a huge backtrack when heading to Continental Europe either, apart to Portugal or the west of Spain.
I even wonder why this is called plan B?
I'd say it should be plan A really as it is a plan that actually makes a lot of sense from a group perspective...
My personal feeling is this plan might actually the preferred option, simply called plan B to make it sound as if BMI has been given no other alternative by BAA....
I think it is a good plan actually, as it makes use of the BMI slots at LHR far more intelligently and profitably, while not causing much problems for the connecting traffic from regional airports. Have a look at how well KL is doing in the UK with this concept.
Let's face it: LHR isn't the most convenient place to connect at and it's not like passing through BRU for instance is a huge backtrack when heading to Continental Europe either, apart to Portugal or the west of Spain.
I even wonder why this is called plan B?
I'd say it should be plan A really as it is a plan that actually makes a lot of sense from a group perspective...
My personal feeling is this plan might actually the preferred option, simply called plan B to make it sound as if BMI has been given no other alternative by BAA....
Last edited by SN146; 25th Jan 2011 at 09:33.
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BHX-BRU
SN146
This was mentioned on Saturday (BHX Forum) and it is now confirmed
per the SN website.
Every Saturday SN2049/40 11.15 arrival at BHX. The turnaround time
in BRU suggests the aircraft originates in EDI.
When did BRS-BRU revert back to BMIR in the SN timetable for summer?
The last time I checked it was showing as SN RJ85's. I think someone
on here predicted it was never going to happen as SN.
Pete
This was mentioned on Saturday (BHX Forum) and it is now confirmed
per the SN website.
Every Saturday SN2049/40 11.15 arrival at BHX. The turnaround time
in BRU suggests the aircraft originates in EDI.
When did BRS-BRU revert back to BMIR in the SN timetable for summer?
The last time I checked it was showing as SN RJ85's. I think someone
on here predicted it was never going to happen as SN.
Pete
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BRS and NCL must have gone back to BMIR Embraers a few days ago because last week they were still shown as RJ operated for sure.
It probably happened at the same time they also loaded the once weekly Embraer service to BHX.
BTW, I've gone through the BHX forum and especially the posts of this weekend, but I couldn't find this news about BD operating an SN flight from BHX in it.... sure it was posted there before?
BMI is increasingly becoming a wetlease operator for the rest of the LH group of airlines, with BMIR becoming almost the regional of SN even! They operate BRS, NCL and now also some BHX on behalf of SN, while also serving BRU from EDI and LBA!
It probably happened at the same time they also loaded the once weekly Embraer service to BHX.
BTW, I've gone through the BHX forum and especially the posts of this weekend, but I couldn't find this news about BD operating an SN flight from BHX in it.... sure it was posted there before?
BMI is increasingly becoming a wetlease operator for the rest of the LH group of airlines, with BMIR becoming almost the regional of SN even! They operate BRS, NCL and now also some BHX on behalf of SN, while also serving BRU from EDI and LBA!
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