Tory "Green" calls for Manchester-London Flights ban
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Tory "Green" calls for Manchester-London Flights ban
OK Folks. What do we think of this latest scheme? Our man is based in Suffolk BTW.......
Plea to scrap London air link
Ian Craig
4/12/2007
A LEADING Tory has called for flights between Manchester and London to be scrapped.
Former environment minister John Gummer said there was `no reason' for people to fly to the capital and they should be made to take the train instead.
His call came in a report on `green' issues being considered by Conservative leader David Cameron as he draws up his party's environment policy.
Mr Gummer claimed an increasing number of people were choosing the high-speed rail link for the 200-mile journey and called for commuter flights to be grounded to cut greenhouse gas emissions.
There are currently 32 scheduled flights a day between Manchester and London's four main airports, carrying a total of 1.5m passengers a year.
Mr Gummer is joint author of the wide-ranging Quality of Life Challenge report, which is being considered by Mr Cameron's team. The report claimed a quarter of flights out of London airports go to places reached in the same time by train.
The report also said passengers flying to Heathrow to catch a connecting flight for overseas should also use trains.
It said: "Around 100,000 of the 470,000 flights using Heathrow every year are to near-Europe destinations . . . with a reasonable rail alternative, including Manchester, Leeds and Newcastle."
Mr Gummer said in the Commons: "What are we going to do about the 30-odd flights a day to Manchester? There is no reason to have those.What about a transport policy that would enable people to go by train from Manchester to Heathrow?"
Manchester Airport and air firms accused him of oversimplifying the issue. The airport's Jonathan Bailey said: "If London air links were removed overnight, it would put a severe burden on the rail system and remove choice and competition.
"We would like more direct long haul routes to avoid short hops to hub airports, but both rail and air are needed for the immediate future."
British Airways said half the people who flew were making connecting journeys, so `rail is not a practical alternative'.
Climate change minister Phil Woolas, MP for Oldham and Saddleworth, said: "My constituents have as much right to fly as everyone else."
A spokesman for Tory leader Mr Cameron stressed: "These are Mr Gummer's personal views rather than Party policy."
Mr Gummer told the M.E.N: "We actually do have to reduce our carbon footprint. If we don't do that then everybody's life will be in peril..
"The first thing is we must make sure there is an adequate alternative. If we had a proper infrastructure policy then we would be able to remove the argument for flying from London to Manchester.
"We don't want to stop people going on holiday but we have to get rid of these flights that are fundamentally unnecessary."
Plea to scrap London air link
Ian Craig
4/12/2007
A LEADING Tory has called for flights between Manchester and London to be scrapped.
Former environment minister John Gummer said there was `no reason' for people to fly to the capital and they should be made to take the train instead.
His call came in a report on `green' issues being considered by Conservative leader David Cameron as he draws up his party's environment policy.
Mr Gummer claimed an increasing number of people were choosing the high-speed rail link for the 200-mile journey and called for commuter flights to be grounded to cut greenhouse gas emissions.
There are currently 32 scheduled flights a day between Manchester and London's four main airports, carrying a total of 1.5m passengers a year.
Mr Gummer is joint author of the wide-ranging Quality of Life Challenge report, which is being considered by Mr Cameron's team. The report claimed a quarter of flights out of London airports go to places reached in the same time by train.
The report also said passengers flying to Heathrow to catch a connecting flight for overseas should also use trains.
It said: "Around 100,000 of the 470,000 flights using Heathrow every year are to near-Europe destinations . . . with a reasonable rail alternative, including Manchester, Leeds and Newcastle."
Mr Gummer said in the Commons: "What are we going to do about the 30-odd flights a day to Manchester? There is no reason to have those.What about a transport policy that would enable people to go by train from Manchester to Heathrow?"
Manchester Airport and air firms accused him of oversimplifying the issue. The airport's Jonathan Bailey said: "If London air links were removed overnight, it would put a severe burden on the rail system and remove choice and competition.
"We would like more direct long haul routes to avoid short hops to hub airports, but both rail and air are needed for the immediate future."
British Airways said half the people who flew were making connecting journeys, so `rail is not a practical alternative'.
Climate change minister Phil Woolas, MP for Oldham and Saddleworth, said: "My constituents have as much right to fly as everyone else."
A spokesman for Tory leader Mr Cameron stressed: "These are Mr Gummer's personal views rather than Party policy."
Mr Gummer told the M.E.N: "We actually do have to reduce our carbon footprint. If we don't do that then everybody's life will be in peril..
"The first thing is we must make sure there is an adequate alternative. If we had a proper infrastructure policy then we would be able to remove the argument for flying from London to Manchester.
"We don't want to stop people going on holiday but we have to get rid of these flights that are fundamentally unnecessary."
Last edited by 763 jock; 4th Dec 2007 at 18:28.
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Grrrrrr London to Manchester only yes get the train, but Manc to London for a connecting flight you fly the train involves change at Euston to underground to paddington then another change to HEX to Heathrow this involves several sets of stairs etc whos kidding who
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Don't want to judge the UK situation where I know personally that the rail network is not up to e.g. German standards. Just for info: LH has already dropped or/and is in the process of dropping certain domestic routes in favour of reserved train coaches with spacial "FAs" in these coaches and including FFP miles etc.
FRA-CGN has been dropped, FRA-DUS and FRA-STR are under consideration of being dropped. Called "AirRail".
FRA-CGN has been dropped, FRA-DUS and FRA-STR are under consideration of being dropped. Called "AirRail".
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The right honourable gentleman allegedly also had a hand in Crowfield aerodrome, Suffolk losing it's 'permanent' planning permission back in the early 90s.
I suppose when you have a chauffeur driven Jag, London to Manchester is a breeze, and anyway, why would a politician want to mix with the underclass who travel by air to Manchester?
He wasn't much of an MP when the Tories were in charge, and now demonstrates what a total waste of space they are as the opposition...
I suppose when you have a chauffeur driven Jag, London to Manchester is a breeze, and anyway, why would a politician want to mix with the underclass who travel by air to Manchester?
He wasn't much of an MP when the Tories were in charge, and now demonstrates what a total waste of space they are as the opposition...
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Methinks that the Heathrow slots situation is such that if you remove approx 10,000 Manchester flights they'll just be taken up by other routes....probably long haul.
So the number of flights won't go down, the number of train journies will go up, and possibly more long haul flights direct from Manchester ? So overall..more emmisions ?
The problem for the green brigade is that LHR will always be full to capacity, a bit like those extra lanes on the motorway.......traffic just grows to fill the space available.
So the number of flights won't go down, the number of train journies will go up, and possibly more long haul flights direct from Manchester ? So overall..more emmisions ?
The problem for the green brigade is that LHR will always be full to capacity, a bit like those extra lanes on the motorway.......traffic just grows to fill the space available.
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What a tool he is. And how does he intend to provide the trains to carry 1.5million passengers a year between Manchester and London on top of the current train travellers. This whole 'Green' thing is really starting to tick me off. It's all a load of dangly bits to hide the fact that that those ba$tards we elect can continually put up taxes for flying/driving with the excuse that it's 'good for the environment'. FFS.
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I don't think Mr Gummer has been near a train recently.
Overcrowded, overpriced. You can't even throw money at the problem and upgrade any more - first class is full especially on a Sunday night.
Or you could travel earlier at the weekend to sample the replacement bus service.
Overcrowded, overpriced. You can't even throw money at the problem and upgrade any more - first class is full especially on a Sunday night.
Or you could travel earlier at the weekend to sample the replacement bus service.
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Try leeds
Another reason for using short haul is the cost.
I had to go from London to Leeds by trainat short notice for a meeting.
The fare was £180 return for each of us and there were three people.
On the basis that Network Rail were paying, I used the train, but it would have been cheaper to take a light aircraft/taxi and maybe a rickshaw.
The cost from MAN to LHR comes up as £94.70 on Last minute.
I had to go from London to Leeds by trainat short notice for a meeting.
The fare was £180 return for each of us and there were three people.
On the basis that Network Rail were paying, I used the train, but it would have been cheaper to take a light aircraft/taxi and maybe a rickshaw.
The cost from MAN to LHR comes up as £94.70 on Last minute.
As Chuffer said above, little Mr Gummer has form.
He lined up with all the other wealthy incomers, ie his constituents, in East Suffolk, 8 or 9 years ago, to protest about Bentwaters replacing Ipswich, repeating some of the most fanciful lies that have ever been heard about an airport development proposal.
Tasters:
"there will be 100,000 B747 flights at Bentwaters every year";
"when it was USAF, no-one noticed the aircraft movements, and there was no noise at Snape Maltings music centre. But as a private airport it will blight the whole of Suffolk".
"There is no unemployment in East Suffolk."
"The public don't want it". (Not the opinion of the jobless 24% - see other lie above - and another 40% or so of the locals who supported the idea, but then Mr Gummer doesn't like talking to the unemployed people or locals whom he "represents".)
He lined up with all the other wealthy incomers, ie his constituents, in East Suffolk, 8 or 9 years ago, to protest about Bentwaters replacing Ipswich, repeating some of the most fanciful lies that have ever been heard about an airport development proposal.
Tasters:
"there will be 100,000 B747 flights at Bentwaters every year";
"when it was USAF, no-one noticed the aircraft movements, and there was no noise at Snape Maltings music centre. But as a private airport it will blight the whole of Suffolk".
"There is no unemployment in East Suffolk."
"The public don't want it". (Not the opinion of the jobless 24% - see other lie above - and another 40% or so of the locals who supported the idea, but then Mr Gummer doesn't like talking to the unemployed people or locals whom he "represents".)
Bought a ticket today to travel from Crewe to London and back next week - 29.35 standard class. Also bought a one-way first class to London for the following week - 20.15, admittedly with the discount benefit of a Railcard, but there are cheap fares out there. If you travel at the last minute on any form of transport these days, you'll pay the premium.
Mr Gummer may be fascinated to know that VLM pulled off the LPL-LCY route earlier this year, blaming competition from Virgin Trains, though interestingly they still fly there fom MAN, albeit with a reduced service.
The problem with the trains on the West Coast Main Line is that because they are more reliable, they are also constantly full. Presently, there is not much room on the tracks for more trains, and Virgin has ordered one additional coach(!) for each Pendolino train set.
Yet another politician totally out of touch
Mr Gummer may be fascinated to know that VLM pulled off the LPL-LCY route earlier this year, blaming competition from Virgin Trains, though interestingly they still fly there fom MAN, albeit with a reduced service.
The problem with the trains on the West Coast Main Line is that because they are more reliable, they are also constantly full. Presently, there is not much room on the tracks for more trains, and Virgin has ordered one additional coach(!) for each Pendolino train set.
Yet another politician totally out of touch
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What a spanner this man is spouting off this rubbish to chase a few "green" votes and to get himself a bit of recognition again..... burger anyone?
Also I don't quite see how this ridiculous proposal fits in with Tory values such as "freedom of choice" and a "competition driven consumer economy"
Utter rubbish.
Also I don't quite see how this ridiculous proposal fits in with Tory values such as "freedom of choice" and a "competition driven consumer economy"
Utter rubbish.
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Said politician then catches a Business Class tax payer funded flight (junket) to Bounes Aires to sample Bovine Turburculosis/CJD free beef just in time for a sunny XMAS!!
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The last time I saw the Right Honourable gentleman was as he stepped out of a gas-guzzling twin engined helicopter on a visit to Manchester. Since then most of the Labour and Conservative ministers continue to use large helicopters to wizz them around - no trains for them! Indeed the previous Leader of the Conservative Party, Michael Howard, last visited Manchester in a Super Puma helicopter.
Now is this the same Selwyn Gummer who, after many years of planning kick backs, finally approved the application to construct the massive out of town shopping complex called The Trafford Centre. Thereby condemning the populace to a M60 motorway running alongside which can be grid locked for most of the day. Not to mention the loss of trade in local towns and city centres.
If airlines provided more direct international links to regional UK airports, be they Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow etc etc, then there would not be any reason to travel to London to connect to an intercontinental flight. In any case my preference is to route via Amsterdam.
Anyone remember the Y2K alleged computer bug which would stop all computers when 2000 came up on the New Year? Many 'experts' made a killing on large consultants' fees. So now the latest scam is global warming. Anyone fancy a few weeks at the current conference in Bali?
Now is this the same Selwyn Gummer who, after many years of planning kick backs, finally approved the application to construct the massive out of town shopping complex called The Trafford Centre. Thereby condemning the populace to a M60 motorway running alongside which can be grid locked for most of the day. Not to mention the loss of trade in local towns and city centres.
If airlines provided more direct international links to regional UK airports, be they Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow etc etc, then there would not be any reason to travel to London to connect to an intercontinental flight. In any case my preference is to route via Amsterdam.
Anyone remember the Y2K alleged computer bug which would stop all computers when 2000 came up on the New Year? Many 'experts' made a killing on large consultants' fees. So now the latest scam is global warming. Anyone fancy a few weeks at the current conference in Bali?
Work related trip to sunny Exeter a while back, meetings over ran so missed my 1:30 flight home sat in comfort finishing off work. Ended up spending £90 on an 8 hour train journey with standing room only. Just happy to be doing my part for the environment
For those fortunate enough not to have travelled on the UKs' rail network in recent years, it doesn't hold a candle to the European railways. Out dated infrastructure and rolling stock. Thanks in part to the last Tory government starting the privatisation of the network (and the current governments inability to stop it). If the government put as much money into the opening up of airspace in the UK and Europe as it does in subsidies to the rail operators I'm sure the reduction flight times/emmissions would be enormous
For those fortunate enough not to have travelled on the UKs' rail network in recent years, it doesn't hold a candle to the European railways. Out dated infrastructure and rolling stock. Thanks in part to the last Tory government starting the privatisation of the network (and the current governments inability to stop it). If the government put as much money into the opening up of airspace in the UK and Europe as it does in subsidies to the rail operators I'm sure the reduction flight times/emmissions would be enormous
Cyclone:
Got to agree with the second paragraph.
Travelled from Roskilde to Copenhagen last week (30 mins). Fast, clean, comfortable and on time. No wonder there were standing passengers!
Price per m/km about the same as the UK. There's a lot we could learn.
Got to agree with the second paragraph.
Travelled from Roskilde to Copenhagen last week (30 mins). Fast, clean, comfortable and on time. No wonder there were standing passengers!
Price per m/km about the same as the UK. There's a lot we could learn.
