Tory "Green" calls for Manchester-London Flights ban
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Guys - I love flying - I'd love to fly home every time.
I love the white knuckle landing at LBA, especially on 14 over the Chevin.
But the reality is Heathrow is hell to get to - miserable to get through.
The surface access it Heathrow is poor:
- Driving - forget it
- Tube - it takes nearly an hour to get to London
- Heathrow Express - is £15 one way and doesn't even take you to London (it takes you to Paddington - nowhere near the West End never mind the City).
And flying is more expensive (in MOST cases - any dingbat who wants to research prices to find an exception don't waste your time).
I love the white knuckle landing at LBA, especially on 14 over the Chevin.
But the reality is Heathrow is hell to get to - miserable to get through.
The surface access it Heathrow is poor:
- Driving - forget it
- Tube - it takes nearly an hour to get to London
- Heathrow Express - is £15 one way and doesn't even take you to London (it takes you to Paddington - nowhere near the West End never mind the City).
And flying is more expensive (in MOST cases - any dingbat who wants to research prices to find an exception don't waste your time).
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I haven't flown through Blackpool - I'd love to - I'm sure its a fine place.
However, I've flown through all London's airports many times.
Docklands is brilliant - the others have differing problems - and Heathrow is just *****.
I wish Blackpool success - but - back to this thread - I can see domestic short haul fading - and that will be driven by operators not politicians.
I care not that TATL may wait until 2009 - BMI has put down a marker at LBA and will exit when it suits them - as is their right.
However, I've flown through all London's airports many times.
Docklands is brilliant - the others have differing problems - and Heathrow is just *****.
I wish Blackpool success - but - back to this thread - I can see domestic short haul fading - and that will be driven by operators not politicians.
I care not that TATL may wait until 2009 - BMI has put down a marker at LBA and will exit when it suits them - as is their right.
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There are +'s and -'s for the proposal. Like most things a move of 100% in another direction is not logical nor sensible.
Having travelled MAN - London many, many times I would always use the train if going to the city and air if flying onwards. I would NEVER fly if going into London itself, the train is a much better option.
I've always found the train to be comfortable (admitedly first class) and timely - maybe I've just been lucky. It is also very competetive on price. USe of lounges makes any waiting acceptable but not having the security queues and the wasted airport time is a major plus.
But by air, nearly every journey was delayed somewhere; missed connections, fighting through the sh**hole of LHR (sorry MUFCfan but I don't know what planet you are on when you prefer LHR to other European hubs abd say BA is the best - have you been in a coma for 30 years?). On some days I've spent almost as much time taxying around airports and waiting for takeoff as I have on the complete journey by train from LON-MAN - about 2 hours.
The main difference between LHR and many other hubs is a direct mainline rail link - BRU, AMS, MUC, FRA all have major rail links at the airports.
If the UK was serious about green issues the Government would have made sure that T5 included a mainline rail station - sadly we do not seem to do joined up thinking in the UK.
If any rail operator can actually get trains to run at high speed from the Midlands and North direct to the tunnel then some of the SE airports might have some issues to face. Again, this has not been part of the 'planning' and it will probably be at least another 15 years before we see that option realised.
Having travelled MAN - London many, many times I would always use the train if going to the city and air if flying onwards. I would NEVER fly if going into London itself, the train is a much better option.
I've always found the train to be comfortable (admitedly first class) and timely - maybe I've just been lucky. It is also very competetive on price. USe of lounges makes any waiting acceptable but not having the security queues and the wasted airport time is a major plus.
But by air, nearly every journey was delayed somewhere; missed connections, fighting through the sh**hole of LHR (sorry MUFCfan but I don't know what planet you are on when you prefer LHR to other European hubs abd say BA is the best - have you been in a coma for 30 years?). On some days I've spent almost as much time taxying around airports and waiting for takeoff as I have on the complete journey by train from LON-MAN - about 2 hours.
The main difference between LHR and many other hubs is a direct mainline rail link - BRU, AMS, MUC, FRA all have major rail links at the airports.
If the UK was serious about green issues the Government would have made sure that T5 included a mainline rail station - sadly we do not seem to do joined up thinking in the UK.
If any rail operator can actually get trains to run at high speed from the Midlands and North direct to the tunnel then some of the SE airports might have some issues to face. Again, this has not been part of the 'planning' and it will probably be at least another 15 years before we see that option realised.
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The reason I fly BA is for their Premium economy - superb! Have flown with them for some time now and love the product!
It also helps when visiting the US as I can get my airmiles more easily than using KLM, AF etc when flights are less frequent.
BA economy is by far no way near the likes of SQ etc. but they do offer a superb Premium economy which I find perfectly in my price range. Other EU carriers' business class maybe superior but the Premium class is by far cheaper.
Only ever had one bad experience going through LHR - so far!
It also helps when visiting the US as I can get my airmiles more easily than using KLM, AF etc when flights are less frequent.
BA economy is by far no way near the likes of SQ etc. but they do offer a superb Premium economy which I find perfectly in my price range. Other EU carriers' business class maybe superior but the Premium class is by far cheaper.
Only ever had one bad experience going through LHR - so far!
Pilot of the Airwaves
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Here's one of the main reasons it will never happen..Network Rail:
http://www.therailwaycentre.com/News...191207_VT.html
Piss ups in breweries comes to mind!
http://www.therailwaycentre.com/News...191207_VT.html
Piss ups in breweries comes to mind!
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Railways getting their act together?
I have to go to Brussels from Doncaster quite frequently and until now have never considered anything else but a train to MAN then an SN Brussels/Brussels Airways flight. Service on both train and plane has always been fine.
Suddenly there has been a price hike on the MAN-BRU route - it used to fluctuate between £110-£135, but now has jumped to £160 at least, booking ages in advance, so somebody suggested I considered going by train. After I stopped laughing - after all, who wants to have to book GNER and Eurostar tickets separately, and go from Kings X to Waterloo invoving a Tube change - the kind person pointed out that Eurostar now departs from St Pancras, and through fares were bookable on the internet from English regional stations.
So I looked it up, and to my surprise, it is now quicker and cheaper by rail - £128 not £180 by rail/air, with all seat reservations included.
I think if the railway industry can get its act together, it will be great for the airlines - it will free up more space. The Channel Tunnel route is underused at the moment. On the other hand a massive increase in capacity will be needed on other rail routes, which I can't really see coming.
Suddenly there has been a price hike on the MAN-BRU route - it used to fluctuate between £110-£135, but now has jumped to £160 at least, booking ages in advance, so somebody suggested I considered going by train. After I stopped laughing - after all, who wants to have to book GNER and Eurostar tickets separately, and go from Kings X to Waterloo invoving a Tube change - the kind person pointed out that Eurostar now departs from St Pancras, and through fares were bookable on the internet from English regional stations.
So I looked it up, and to my surprise, it is now quicker and cheaper by rail - £128 not £180 by rail/air, with all seat reservations included.
I think if the railway industry can get its act together, it will be great for the airlines - it will free up more space. The Channel Tunnel route is underused at the moment. On the other hand a massive increase in capacity will be needed on other rail routes, which I can't really see coming.
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IB4138 - what is the "it" that will never happen?
If you refer to rail taking over domestic short haul then I would suggest reduced frequencies Liverpool and Man to London suggest (on the back of the West Coast Main Line upgrade) indicate that it is already happening.
I beg to differ on Network Rail - it isn't perfect - (aviation is right? A380, A400 and 787 delays, airline and airport strikes.......hmmmm).
Now if you were referring to Railtrack I'd be with you 100% - perhaps the most truly awful company the bastard child of an apocalyptic policy that killed people through incompetence.
Channel Tunnel rail link and St Pancras built on time and on budget...
If you refer to rail taking over domestic short haul then I would suggest reduced frequencies Liverpool and Man to London suggest (on the back of the West Coast Main Line upgrade) indicate that it is already happening.
I beg to differ on Network Rail - it isn't perfect - (aviation is right? A380, A400 and 787 delays, airline and airport strikes.......hmmmm).
Now if you were referring to Railtrack I'd be with you 100% - perhaps the most truly awful company the bastard child of an apocalyptic policy that killed people through incompetence.
Channel Tunnel rail link and St Pancras built on time and on budget...
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TDF: I thought it was London & Continental Railways that built the Tunnel Rail Link, not Network Rail? Maybe that's the way to go - get someone other than Network Rail to build the things, and hope they can at least manage to not let them fall apart after...
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Thanks MarkD,
You are quite correct - I didn't properly delineate my comments.
The point of my last sentence is that the rail industry can deliver - it wasn't my intention to attribute it to Network Rail.
Network Rail already contracts in for enhancements - but I don't wish to bore aviation enthusiasts any further.
tdf
You are quite correct - I didn't properly delineate my comments.
The point of my last sentence is that the rail industry can deliver - it wasn't my intention to attribute it to Network Rail.
Network Rail already contracts in for enhancements - but I don't wish to bore aviation enthusiasts any further.
tdf
