BA Fine Over Price Fixing
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1) There a lot of misunderstandings about the alleged "Dirty Tricks". BA never admitted gult to any of them, including poaching of passengers and the out of court settlement was over a libel action, not Dirty Tricks per se.
2) There are also a lot of misunderstandings about pricing. Fuel charges are not a rip off or a scam. They are simple pricing decisions which any airline can take at any time. They are shown on the ticket along with something which often is a rip off,- government taxes. Even without " inappropriate conversations" many airlines would change roughly the same anyway for competitive reasons.
So.... no reasons for righteous hysteria about rip offs etc. That would be an entirely separate issue from the legality of conversations. Like it or not, BA is a highly successful business and the fact that it might have been more sucessful if it had not culled most of its older managers and thereby also lost its corporate memory and wisdom is also a different issue.
2) There are also a lot of misunderstandings about pricing. Fuel charges are not a rip off or a scam. They are simple pricing decisions which any airline can take at any time. They are shown on the ticket along with something which often is a rip off,- government taxes. Even without " inappropriate conversations" many airlines would change roughly the same anyway for competitive reasons.
So.... no reasons for righteous hysteria about rip offs etc. That would be an entirely separate issue from the legality of conversations. Like it or not, BA is a highly successful business and the fact that it might have been more sucessful if it had not culled most of its older managers and thereby also lost its corporate memory and wisdom is also a different issue.
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BA fined
Just watching Sky news, Willie Walsh biting the bullet and admitting price fixing on fuel surcharges, very sorry etc, coming across very well, and holding his airline accountable. £121,000,000 fine.
Virgins Man Paul someone or other squirming and slithering to try to avoid any admittance of doing anything wrong. Dear oh dear, where did they get this bloke from ? he is making Virgin look very underhand, cheap and frankly silly.
Virgins Man Paul someone or other squirming and slithering to try to avoid any admittance of doing anything wrong. Dear oh dear, where did they get this bloke from ? he is making Virgin look very underhand, cheap and frankly silly.
I think that they have that rule in order to encourage people to blow the whistle.
It may not be fair but if nobody told anybody about the arrangement then it would still be going on with nobody any the wiser.
It may not be fair but if nobody told anybody about the arrangement then it would still be going on with nobody any the wiser.
Let us understand that "colluding" on something involves both sides doing something.
When found out one side gets off scot free, the other pays £121m.
1. Do you honestly believe that if BA had spoken to the government first about this colluding, Virgin would have been fined £121m and BA allowed to get off scot free ?
2. Sir Richard Branson was Chairman of Virgin throughout this period of the collusion (the BA top execs have changed since then). Will Sir Richard now resign ?
3. Who, other than the lawyers involved, thinks that this "if you say so first, get let off, if you say so second, fined a huge amount of money" approach does anything other than drag the law into complete disrepute ?
When found out one side gets off scot free, the other pays £121m.
1. Do you honestly believe that if BA had spoken to the government first about this colluding, Virgin would have been fined £121m and BA allowed to get off scot free ?
2. Sir Richard Branson was Chairman of Virgin throughout this period of the collusion (the BA top execs have changed since then). Will Sir Richard now resign ?
3. Who, other than the lawyers involved, thinks that this "if you say so first, get let off, if you say so second, fined a huge amount of money" approach does anything other than drag the law into complete disrepute ?
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By all accounts it was'nt BA that instigated these conversations so whatever you think about either airline it would not be justice to only punish BA no matter who saw the OFT coming first
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2. Sir Richard Branson was Chairman of Virgin throughout this period of the collusion (the BA top execs have changed since then). Will Sir Richard now resign ?
The BA management on the other hand are supposed to be acting in the best interests of the shareholders, and in this case (speaking as a shareholder myself) they haven't.
The US Department of Justice have just mentioned in their press conference that they may be further charges against individuals and other companies involved in the cartel.
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mumbo jumbo.....looks like you are living up to your name and talking......well...mumbo jumbo. Sounds like you are a wannabe failed pilot who is bitter and twisted, living on your own on an island full of druids!....any sheep there !!
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From what I heard the people involved were just talking to Virgin about the surcharges and broke the law, but not really doing it in a malicious way or to rip the passengers off.
Of course the Americans are lapping it up, with the FBI 'knocking on BAs door'. I'm sure BA will be targeted more by the Americans purely because they are British. Not forgetting all this Ch.11 bull that US airlines get
If the surcharges are a 1000% increase, why have they not been lifted? I find that figure hard to believe!
Of course the Americans are lapping it up, with the FBI 'knocking on BAs door'. I'm sure BA will be targeted more by the Americans purely because they are British. Not forgetting all this Ch.11 bull that US airlines get
If the surcharges are a 1000% increase, why have they not been lifted? I find that figure hard to believe!
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My money is on the surcharge rising again to pay for the fine!
As a BA worker I can see the company got what it deserved. "We" broke the rules and as such were punished. Shame the fine was at the expense of any employee reward scheme we were due - mistakes of a few cost a lot of us a lot of money.
I'd just like to see the money go to good use, perhaps in aviation safety research or airport safety improvements. Can't see that happening though.
As a BA worker I can see the company got what it deserved. "We" broke the rules and as such were punished. Shame the fine was at the expense of any employee reward scheme we were due - mistakes of a few cost a lot of us a lot of money.
I'd just like to see the money go to good use, perhaps in aviation safety research or airport safety improvements. Can't see that happening though.
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OMG!!! LOL I've just Noticed. IVA HARDEN I love your name! It made me laugh and the last 2 dys i have been feeling a bit down if you pardon the pun
Anyway One thing i've noticed was on another airline, lets say "city travel indirect" how expensive they were last winter. Plus having worked at the airport in MAN T1 for a long time seeing all the PAX crammed in like sardines. It makes me wander why it was so expensive. BA isnt that bad when it comes to prices IMO. Especially when i saw a ticket to LAX for £271 incl. taxes
Anyway One thing i've noticed was on another airline, lets say "city travel indirect" how expensive they were last winter. Plus having worked at the airport in MAN T1 for a long time seeing all the PAX crammed in like sardines. It makes me wander why it was so expensive. BA isnt that bad when it comes to prices IMO. Especially when i saw a ticket to LAX for £271 incl. taxes
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Forgive me if I have missed the point here, I am but a simple engineer!
Maybe the wiser amongst us could try to explain just how this works
So we have BA fined for what is effectively price fixing with Virgin, and get hit by a big fine in the UK. That seems fair as they are UK based and broke UK law...
BUT why in the name of all that is holy have they also been shafted with a huge fine from the good old boys across the pond.... seems like BA suffer twice for one crime!
I in no way condone what BA (And virgin) did, and agree that action was due, but surely the UK courts are the place to deal with UK matters.
Would we have tried to impose a fine on say, American Airlines if they had been caught doing similar with United? and If we ever tried would they pay?
Maybe the wiser amongst us could try to explain just how this works
So we have BA fined for what is effectively price fixing with Virgin, and get hit by a big fine in the UK. That seems fair as they are UK based and broke UK law...
BUT why in the name of all that is holy have they also been shafted with a huge fine from the good old boys across the pond.... seems like BA suffer twice for one crime!
I in no way condone what BA (And virgin) did, and agree that action was due, but surely the UK courts are the place to deal with UK matters.
Would we have tried to impose a fine on say, American Airlines if they had been caught doing similar with United? and If we ever tried would they pay?
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I do wonder why employees of BA enjoy its difficult moments - do you then moan about no bonus?
Professional? - purr..llees...!!
As I understand things, Virgin played with certain parties in BA then ran for cover. I would too, given the price.
I think that in these cases, there is an opportunity for the quickest grass to escape with some money (but not necessarily reputation) intact. SRB - not in the public eye on this one - fancy?
Question - (for non - BA pilots) -why do you all 'diss BA so badly when it's obvious that you want to work for us.
Question - (for BA pilots) - Hate it so badly? Then please help us improve it but don't celebrate our bad news.
Incidentally, I'm not a pilot (scared of heights really) but I do work for BA and will never celebrate its failures.
I have some skin in this business and I want a return!
Do you?
Professional? - purr..llees...!!
As I understand things, Virgin played with certain parties in BA then ran for cover. I would too, given the price.
I think that in these cases, there is an opportunity for the quickest grass to escape with some money (but not necessarily reputation) intact. SRB - not in the public eye on this one - fancy?
Question - (for non - BA pilots) -why do you all 'diss BA so badly when it's obvious that you want to work for us.
Question - (for BA pilots) - Hate it so badly? Then please help us improve it but don't celebrate our bad news.
Incidentally, I'm not a pilot (scared of heights really) but I do work for BA and will never celebrate its failures.
I have some skin in this business and I want a return!
Do you?
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As a front line employee of the company I am delighted that BA are getting a Royal kick up the arse for this (and long overdue as this whole ordeal is a perfect example of the arrogant attitude of modern BA management) I was rather appalled at the way the Americans were really criminalising BA during their press conference and making it sound like every single person working for BA was a cheating, robbing criminal!!! It also did not help that I was standing down at T1 departure gates in LHR waiting for my flight home in uniform watching the press conference live and having passengers look at me like they wanted to spit on me!!! LOL
The reason however I feel why BA seems to be singled out more so in the states (Korean also had a rather hefty thrashing by them) is because the Americans have always considered BA one of their biggest competitors over the Atlantic and especially since 9/11 has really left its own carriers suffering (although I think lack of any decent service onboard their carriers probably had a lot to contribute to this). This could be used not only as political sway for their own selfish agendas but as a way to try and boost yields and confidence in US carriers amongst the American public!!!! However I say it is only time before either Europe or someone else blows the whistle on the US carriers too!!!
The thing that makes me laugh is that I really do believe that these fuel charges would have been implemented anyways regardless of whether BA broke anti trust rules or not!!!
The reason however I feel why BA seems to be singled out more so in the states (Korean also had a rather hefty thrashing by them) is because the Americans have always considered BA one of their biggest competitors over the Atlantic and especially since 9/11 has really left its own carriers suffering (although I think lack of any decent service onboard their carriers probably had a lot to contribute to this). This could be used not only as political sway for their own selfish agendas but as a way to try and boost yields and confidence in US carriers amongst the American public!!!! However I say it is only time before either Europe or someone else blows the whistle on the US carriers too!!!
The thing that makes me laugh is that I really do believe that these fuel charges would have been implemented anyways regardless of whether BA broke anti trust rules or not!!!