MANSTON -2
Recidivist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Essex, UK
Posts: 1,239
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"The misfortune of the holidaymakers to whom you refer was caused not by Kent Escapes or by Manston Airport but by the aircraft operator."
Do you imagine the pax realise (or care)?
Do you imagine the pax realise (or care)?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Thanet
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Indeed, as a biz traveller all I care about is reaching my destination.
Using a London airport means a replacement a/c can be supplied before I am even aware the first one has gone tech.
History corrections -
SARS and 9/11 had blown over by the time EUjet started.
H5N1 (avian flu) didn't acheive public noteriety until after their collapse.
Incidentally, flogging stuff at promotional prices does not constitute a "market test"
Using a London airport means a replacement a/c can be supplied before I am even aware the first one has gone tech.
History corrections -
SARS and 9/11 had blown over by the time EUjet started.
H5N1 (avian flu) didn't acheive public noteriety until after their collapse.
Incidentally, flogging stuff at promotional prices does not constitute a "market test"
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Birchington, Kent, England
Age: 82
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
frostbite
No, I don't suppose the passengers do know or care, but it does not alter the fact.
deedave
History is history, note I did say PTG and EUjet, perhaps I should have also included Wiggins Group to make it more accurate. The point was that MSE was trying to establish itself in a very difficult period.
Also, I fully understand that every airline with which you travel from Heathrow or Gatwick has a replacement aircraft standing by at all times at all your ports of departure just in case an aircraft goes "tech". Just seen a squadron of pigs fly over Manston, on finals to land.
No, I don't suppose the passengers do know or care, but it does not alter the fact.
deedave
History is history, note I did say PTG and EUjet, perhaps I should have also included Wiggins Group to make it more accurate. The point was that MSE was trying to establish itself in a very difficult period.
Also, I fully understand that every airline with which you travel from Heathrow or Gatwick has a replacement aircraft standing by at all times at all your ports of departure just in case an aircraft goes "tech". Just seen a squadron of pigs fly over Manston, on finals to land.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Isle of Thanet
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Popped up to look at the Cargolux arrival today. Five lorry loads of produce (most I've seen for this route) were unloaded, plus a large jet engine.
This augurs well for the route, and the talk is that the projected second weekly service will start in the autumn.
This augurs well for the route, and the talk is that the projected second weekly service will start in the autumn.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Market testing another airport, or indeed expanding another airport in the area, seems to be an excellent way of wasting money, although I appreciate the owner of Lydd cannot see it that way.
Especially as I assume that whilst market testing the airport they need a second aircraft of each type sitting on the ground in case the one due to do the flight goes u/s.
There is a geberal problem with business plans in that you employ consultants to gather the data. They know what you want to prove. Aren't they going to do the best to prove it as otherwise you won't employ them in the future? Think how many National Lottery funded projects struggle once built. In all cases the market research said they would survive, but in reality the demand is not there.
Manston has not really been market tested properly, as it takes a long time to build up trade. Most people only fly once a year, so if you fly from Manston in year 1 you might go in year 2, but your friends might not go until year 3 etc.
Especially as I assume that whilst market testing the airport they need a second aircraft of each type sitting on the ground in case the one due to do the flight goes u/s.
There is a geberal problem with business plans in that you employ consultants to gather the data. They know what you want to prove. Aren't they going to do the best to prove it as otherwise you won't employ them in the future? Think how many National Lottery funded projects struggle once built. In all cases the market research said they would survive, but in reality the demand is not there.
Manston has not really been market tested properly, as it takes a long time to build up trade. Most people only fly once a year, so if you fly from Manston in year 1 you might go in year 2, but your friends might not go until year 3 etc.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: England near Rochester airport
Age: 76
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Manston 2
Sorry Deedave, but I can't see your logic re Lydd. I agree it is good for access from Ashford, but that's about it. It is a truly awful place to get to on minor roads whilst Manston has dual carriageway as far as the end of the runway. The other thing is that Manston is all set up ready to go and Lydd isn't: it needs a runway extension which hasn't got planning permission yet and needs quite a bit of cash throwing at it. It seems to me that if Manston can't pick up enough business to survive then that is the end for extra capacity in the south east. For certain no one will build a completely new airport for financial reasons alone: witness the Cliffe debacle. Southend might siphon off a bit of Stanteds share but that's about it.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Thanet
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I fear your post simply confirms the point I was trying to make, ie - people seem all too willing to condemn Lydd because of Manston's failure to progress.
By all means feel free to theorise about Lydd, but those of us who expected great things at MSE are now all too aware that "the proof of the pudding...."
Lyddair has been running for some time.
Now I don't wish to be rude, but if someone tried to get me to fork out 90 quid just to hop over the puddle for a coffee, I would tell them where to shove it, yet Lydd seems to attract enough folk to make this service viable.
Road access is not perfect, but you are wrong to describe it as "truly awful", and an efficient shuttle coach from Ashford Int. could be most effective.
With an extended runway and a 40-min London to Ashford rail link, I would be most interested to see the results of a more comprehensive service being offered.
Enough crystal-ball gazing.
Time for a market test.
By all means feel free to theorise about Lydd, but those of us who expected great things at MSE are now all too aware that "the proof of the pudding...."
Lyddair has been running for some time.
Now I don't wish to be rude, but if someone tried to get me to fork out 90 quid just to hop over the puddle for a coffee, I would tell them where to shove it, yet Lydd seems to attract enough folk to make this service viable.
Road access is not perfect, but you are wrong to describe it as "truly awful", and an efficient shuttle coach from Ashford Int. could be most effective.
With an extended runway and a 40-min London to Ashford rail link, I would be most interested to see the results of a more comprehensive service being offered.
Enough crystal-ball gazing.
Time for a market test.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But Lyddair operate a plane with 16 seats even if it is a daily service. Has anyone tried a daily service with a 16 seater plane out of Manston to know whether there is a comparision?
After all an airline operates scheduled flights out of Brighton City airport, more frequently known as Shoreham. I don't think that that means that Shoreham will become the next large airport.
Tiny planes operating short routes may work from any airport as they don;t need so much infrastructure to support them, they don;t need so many passengers to break even etc.
There is a lot of difference between a tiny plane operating one route and lots of planes operating lots of routes.
After all an airline operates scheduled flights out of Brighton City airport, more frequently known as Shoreham. I don't think that that means that Shoreham will become the next large airport.
Tiny planes operating short routes may work from any airport as they don;t need so much infrastructure to support them, they don;t need so many passengers to break even etc.
There is a lot of difference between a tiny plane operating one route and lots of planes operating lots of routes.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Thanet
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe there were some small a/c operations at Manston, but they folded a good while ago.
The people of Thanet can now take a cheap ferry trip to Ostend if they wish, but the service attracts little custom, and remains primarily a freight operation.
What I find intriguing is that Lyddair find a small but significant number of people willing to shell out a large sum of money for what is essentially a lunch trip.
Can anybody seriously imagine the poor but honourable folk of Thanet doing the same thing?
The people of Thanet can now take a cheap ferry trip to Ostend if they wish, but the service attracts little custom, and remains primarily a freight operation.
What I find intriguing is that Lyddair find a small but significant number of people willing to shell out a large sum of money for what is essentially a lunch trip.
Can anybody seriously imagine the poor but honourable folk of Thanet doing the same thing?
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: kent
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whispers
Just read back through the last two weeks of postings. Infratil have started the whisper themselves with their email claiming that they are in 'advanced discussions with an well known UK based airline'. I am not quite sure what your point is regarding whispers? This is a board discussing just such whispers and rumours (amongst other more factual postings)! If you are reading this for any other reason you will be sorely disappointed, you will not find the ending to Harry Potter here, just gossip and speculation about Manston! Announcements of this kind by Infratil are either highly unprofessional and intended to start gossip, or factual information. It is up to each of us to draw our own conclusion.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tenet
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
whispers
Like the whispering of 2 million to deal with the runway drainage when they have not yet obtained a discharge consent licence and had to be almost forced by the EA to submit the delayed forms. In fact i am sure the the price was previously quoted as nearer 5 million when Planestation had this piece of expensive tarmac...so the cost must be nearer 6 million now - and that's without the problems of the BFI No:1.
A quick look at the on line Daily Record dated 24th of this month would reveal a lot more regarding passenger flights into and out of Manston?
A quick look at the on line Daily Record dated 24th of this month would reveal a lot more regarding passenger flights into and out of Manston?
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: EGMH..a down, not yet out, formerly awesome airfield
Age: 55
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Drainage
The waste water already flows to the sea I understand. It just needs a filtration process building in. There has been a noticeable upsurge in the civil engineering contractors vehicles this week so I take it this work has started.
As for the rumour in new operators for next season, we have no idea when they'll be announced. If however we hadn't mentioned it and the announcement was made, you'll want to know why those that knew about it beforehand hadn't mentioned it before the event. A no win situation.
As for the rumour in new operators for next season, we have no idea when they'll be announced. If however we hadn't mentioned it and the announcement was made, you'll want to know why those that knew about it beforehand hadn't mentioned it before the event. A no win situation.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canterbury
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Enough is Enough
After 2 years of waiting, time for pastures new, but.....
There WILL be a scheduled service in Summer 08 with a well known operator.
Infratil DID NOT invest 1.5 Million in a replacement radar system, it was an insurance claim.
Yes they have lost money over the last 2 years but they are willing to lose over the next 2 years as well.
Major centres of population in Kent are Canterbury and Maidstone who can easily travel to Manston.
Lydd has..... let me think ........Ashford! Lydd is a pig to get to unless you live in ........ Ashford. If Manston doesnt have the catchment area Lydd doesnt have a prayer.
Time to get behind one of them and in my humble opinion it should be Manston.
MDIS
There WILL be a scheduled service in Summer 08 with a well known operator.
Infratil DID NOT invest 1.5 Million in a replacement radar system, it was an insurance claim.
Yes they have lost money over the last 2 years but they are willing to lose over the next 2 years as well.
Major centres of population in Kent are Canterbury and Maidstone who can easily travel to Manston.
Lydd has..... let me think ........Ashford! Lydd is a pig to get to unless you live in ........ Ashford. If Manston doesnt have the catchment area Lydd doesnt have a prayer.
Time to get behind one of them and in my humble opinion it should be Manston.
MDIS
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: East Kent
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Infratil seems to have money and time to invest an Manston as well as the long term comitment. They just need some good reliable carriers to bring back some customer confidance. Touch wood for next summer.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Thanet
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Lydd is a pig to get to unless you live in Ashford."
This is not true.
Detailed discussion of surface transport on these forums is tedious, so I will simply say that the road journeys from the major population centres of Maidstone and Canterbury are straightforward.
Don't take my word for it (or anybody elses on this board!)
Anyone who is interested can look at the drivetime software (yawn), or take the trip yourself as I have done.
This is not true.
Detailed discussion of surface transport on these forums is tedious, so I will simply say that the road journeys from the major population centres of Maidstone and Canterbury are straightforward.
Don't take my word for it (or anybody elses on this board!)
Anyone who is interested can look at the drivetime software (yawn), or take the trip yourself as I have done.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tenet
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MDIS
I can recall a statement somewhere that someone would break even make a profit in year three, oh dear' oh dear' oh very dear!!!
I must request my insurers that i want betterment when i next claim...are you now telling us that the insurance company paid for the new installation on the side of the Radar station i think not?
Smoke and mirrors, smoke and mirrors.
I must request my insurers that i want betterment when i next claim...are you now telling us that the insurance company paid for the new installation on the side of the Radar station i think not?
Smoke and mirrors, smoke and mirrors.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: kent
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
3 or 5 years
Infratil purchased the airport in August 2005 and announced that
Three year capex required £9m
Operating losses to March 2009 £8m-£10m
Including the £17m purchase price an anticipated loss of £35m-£37 over the 3 1/2 years
They also anticipated 45,000 tons of freight annually by April 2009, thats 3750 a month. It is currently reporting between 800 and 2750 tons a month.
Three year capex required £9m
Operating losses to March 2009 £8m-£10m
Including the £17m purchase price an anticipated loss of £35m-£37 over the 3 1/2 years
They also anticipated 45,000 tons of freight annually by April 2009, thats 3750 a month. It is currently reporting between 800 and 2750 tons a month.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sittingbourne Kent and at Wimborne Dorset
Age: 37
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agruee with MDIS
Lydd can only be serverd by the people off ashford And I dont think Lydd will become an airport to many local people are against it of having flights and there are the RSPB supporters like me and Bill Oddie.Is it next summer this Airline is coming to MSE?
James
Lydd can only be serverd by the people off ashford And I dont think Lydd will become an airport to many local people are against it of having flights and there are the RSPB supporters like me and Bill Oddie.Is it next summer this Airline is coming to MSE?James