MANSTON -2
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,782
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Manston Survey
Just received an email from Manston airport asking for me to complete an online survey. According to the airport manager, they are about to announce a new range of scheduled services by an airline in the UK. It didnt say which one ,but it did ask of the follwing airlines click the ones you would use.... it included Belfast city, Manchester, Jersey/Guernsey , Amsterdam. I think it might be a reference to Flybe or what does anyone else think?
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Herne Bay
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CTRL
The NEW South Eastern Trains franchise will includes the operation of the new high speed domestic services over the Channel Tunnel Rail Link (CTRL) from 2009. Hitachi-built trains, designed for both the CTRL and conventional railway lines will operate the service which will bring greatly improved journey times in Kent – for example, London to Ashford will be reduced from 83 minutes to 36.5 minutes. A new depot is under contruction at Ramsgate now for the new trains.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Herne Bay
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CTRL
Replying to a point made about changing at St Pancras to get to Heathrow, Gatwick. You would still have to get across London to Victoria by bus taxi for Gatwick.
Heathrow, same to Paddington, then Heathrow Express.
Cross Rail would make a transfer for Heathrow and Stanstead very easy but it's not due till 2015.
A transfer from Stratford International for the games in 2012 from Ramsgate just over an hour.
Manston would be ideal for visitors to arrive in the UK for the games, and visit the City of Canterbury
Heathrow, same to Paddington, then Heathrow Express.
Cross Rail would make a transfer for Heathrow and Stanstead very easy but it's not due till 2015.
A transfer from Stratford International for the games in 2012 from Ramsgate just over an hour.
Manston would be ideal for visitors to arrive in the UK for the games, and visit the City of Canterbury
Replying to a point made about changing at St Pancras to get to Heathrow, Gatwick. You would still have to get across London to Victoria by bus taxi for Gatwick.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: kent
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Joined up government
We all keep reading or posting on this message board, and each time without much concrete evidence we speculate on the success or failure of Manston. Manstons real future hangs on whether there is any coordinated joined up government intervention or not. No one is going to fund an airside station or fast direct link to London based just on the hope that Manston may succeed, but the government has recognised that it has serious social issues in East Kent and even bigger housing problems around the city. There are politicians pushing for massive housing development (which could or could not include some of the airfield) fast links to London via rail and the continuing widening of the M2/A2. The planned Kent Array wind farm, and the Olympic games are additional factors that are in the backs of politicians minds. In northern France the channel tunnel link was used specifically to help regeneration in the area, this seems to be the model being adopted now with areas such as Folkestone and Ramsgate specifically targeted with better London connections. they are targeted not because there is an urgent need from commuters rather that by offering the service they hope to act as a catalyst for regeneration. the airport sits somewhere in the middle of all of this, it is unfortunate that our UK style joined up government is not as direct as the French (need a railway? Build it, no planning issues......) the rail link really is the prime factor for anything locally. The promises of services of around an hour do now seem to be dwindling. in fact even a service of 1 hour 15 minutes is not that useful if trains leave only a few times a day, you may as well catch the existing London trains and travel for just under 2 hours than wait 2 hours for a fast train! To conclude there is a political will to open access to Thanet, there is a local will to develop the airport, there is a national need for more housing that is within commutable range of the capital, should anyone manage to join these three dots together then, and just then Manston may have its day.
The earlier mention of an email from Infratil is:
At Kent International Airport we are committed to establishing a viable, sustainable and accessible passenger service at the earliest opportunity for the people of Kent, and we are working hard to achieve this aim. Currently we are in advanced discussions with a well known UK based airline who is considering the operation of scheduled business and leisure services to a number of UK destinations from the airport...............
Let the speculation begin
The earlier mention of an email from Infratil is:
At Kent International Airport we are committed to establishing a viable, sustainable and accessible passenger service at the earliest opportunity for the people of Kent, and we are working hard to achieve this aim. Currently we are in advanced discussions with a well known UK based airline who is considering the operation of scheduled business and leisure services to a number of UK destinations from the airport...............
Let the speculation begin
Last edited by furmanek; 12th Jul 2007 at 11:40.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: EGMH..a down, not yet out, formerly awesome airfield
Age: 55
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Passenger Flights
As well as the aforementioned email. this is part of the latest Infratil annnouncement (mainly on the Lubeck situation):
>
......IAEL also operates Glasgow Prestwick Airport in Scotland and Kent International Airport in England. As such IAEL is involved in ongoing discussions with a range of airlines about the provision of new services and the commercial arrangements under which those services will be provided at all its airports.
>
There seems to be a bit of a buzz at the airport. #### may indeed announce it is to start flying in #### to #### destinations.
We have had these rumours before, unfortunately there was just a lot of "told you so" negativity from some when things didn't actually come to fruition. This time it seems things really could happen.
You can now all start a list of expected routes, airlines and dates.
>
......IAEL also operates Glasgow Prestwick Airport in Scotland and Kent International Airport in England. As such IAEL is involved in ongoing discussions with a range of airlines about the provision of new services and the commercial arrangements under which those services will be provided at all its airports.
>
There seems to be a bit of a buzz at the airport. #### may indeed announce it is to start flying in #### to #### destinations.
We have had these rumours before, unfortunately there was just a lot of "told you so" negativity from some when things didn't actually come to fruition. This time it seems things really could happen.
You can now all start a list of expected routes, airlines and dates.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sittingbourne Kent and at Wimborne Dorset
Age: 37
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have not seen a MK for about a month, are they still using MSE
And you can get a train from Ramsgate to Victoria then the Gatwick express to London Gatwick under 15 mins I know I done it for plane spotting 
I have that Email Survey thing for Manston but its on my hotmail and when i click on the word survey it comes up with page can not be displayed does anyone else have this problem and is there a link for the Survey Thanks
James
Last edited by Manston Airport; 12th Jul 2007 at 13:47.
niknak
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Deedave, I would think that it has a great deal to do with the fact that Prestwick has a substantial passenger catchment area and demand for passenger services, whereas Manston does not.
High speed rail links servicing Ramsgate are being introduced for one purpose only, to encourage more passengers to travel by rail to London and Europe, not to travel to Manston Airport.
Flybe into Manston? I can't ever see it happening, the type of routes which Flybe operate require proven catchment area and demand, neither of which Manston can provide - if the demand was there Flybe would have been testing the water a long time ago.
Manston's only hope is freight and despite their best efforts, even that doesnt look as though it going to help the airport siurvive as a viable proposition.
High speed rail links servicing Ramsgate are being introduced for one purpose only, to encourage more passengers to travel by rail to London and Europe, not to travel to Manston Airport.
Flybe into Manston? I can't ever see it happening, the type of routes which Flybe operate require proven catchment area and demand, neither of which Manston can provide - if the demand was there Flybe would have been testing the water a long time ago.
Manston's only hope is freight and despite their best efforts, even that doesnt look as though it going to help the airport siurvive as a viable proposition.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: KENT
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is a positive thing to have happened this survey going out. It just shows that Airlines are interested in MSE. Give it a chance instead of knocking it, again. Ok Flybe may not be the airline, it maybe, but there are a lot on that list can we all pls stop being so negative, stop speculating, think positive and give it a chance. 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Thanet
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If there is a possibility that Kent Escapes are not coming back next year, it makes sense to beg, bully or bribe another airline to run some kind of service.
With the loss of so much freight, an empty airport would not look good.
As there is already CAA data on route possibilities availabe, this "survey" is not really necessary.
Full marks to the management team for trying to raise the profile in this way though.
No-one can say they haven't tried.
With the loss of so much freight, an empty airport would not look good.
As there is already CAA data on route possibilities availabe, this "survey" is not really necessary.
Full marks to the management team for trying to raise the profile in this way though.
No-one can say they haven't tried.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's quite interesting reading this thread as an interested observer. The thread goes quiet, with occasional posts about lack of activity at Mansden, but little response to them.
Then a postive post comes along and there's a flurry of posts!
Personally I am not sure a fast rail link to/from Manston is that important. A fast rail link only benefits those flying into the airport, not necessarially those flying out of it. Because those flying out need to get from their home onto that fast link. So living in Sussex to get to any airport by train I have to go into London and back out again. No thanks, I'll go by car, its quicker to all the London airports.
So if I am going by car which airport will I fly from? Well it makes sense to go from the one which has fastest time from car to plane. The big, busy airports then fail on security checks, as it takes so long to get through the airport.
So in my view what Manston needs to do is to concentrate on minimising the car to plane time, and publicising what routes they offer. It is a chicken and egg situation and if it is to work money will be lost in the early days as passenger numbers build. Obviously in addition to the money already lost!
Then there is the cargo, and the road links from Manston to the M25 are quite good, and I suspect there is little additional cost in the road part of the journey between any London airport, so I suspect that it will build up, but again takes time, and their will be dips and throughs.
What I fail to see is how or why Lydd should do any better than Manston.
Then a postive post comes along and there's a flurry of posts!
Personally I am not sure a fast rail link to/from Manston is that important. A fast rail link only benefits those flying into the airport, not necessarially those flying out of it. Because those flying out need to get from their home onto that fast link. So living in Sussex to get to any airport by train I have to go into London and back out again. No thanks, I'll go by car, its quicker to all the London airports.
So if I am going by car which airport will I fly from? Well it makes sense to go from the one which has fastest time from car to plane. The big, busy airports then fail on security checks, as it takes so long to get through the airport.
So in my view what Manston needs to do is to concentrate on minimising the car to plane time, and publicising what routes they offer. It is a chicken and egg situation and if it is to work money will be lost in the early days as passenger numbers build. Obviously in addition to the money already lost!
Then there is the cargo, and the road links from Manston to the M25 are quite good, and I suspect there is little additional cost in the road part of the journey between any London airport, so I suspect that it will build up, but again takes time, and their will be dips and throughs.
What I fail to see is how or why Lydd should do any better than Manston.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Birchington, Kent, England
Age: 82
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Route Licenses and Other Topics
There is an impression given that route licenses are "point to point", probably unintentional. Whilst that is true for some routes it is not generally the case. The CAA website states:
"Route Licences
EEA air carriers may fly on most routes within the EEA without any further licence being required. For services either wholly or partly outside the EEA a licence holder will normally need to hold an additional licence, a Route Licence, which is also granted by the CAA; Route Licences can be granted only to holders of Operating Licences.
Despite their name, Route Licences do not normally cover just a single route. The most commonly granted licences permit any operations that are within the area permitted by the holder’s Air Operator’s Certificate, though there may be specific restrictions placed in specific circumstances. For scheduled services outside the EEA, the possession of a Route Licence does not however necessarily mean that the licence holder is free to commence services; it must also be designated by the Secretary of State under the terms of the bilateral Air Service Agreement between the UK and the country to which it is intended to operate. Although the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man are part of the UK, they are not members of the EU and therefore the Market Access Regulation does not apply."
It would therefore seem sensible for an airport to research "point to point" routes that may prove to be viable from its location, after all, they want their operation to be successfull. Quite clearly, the CAA will not be holding data on a route, for example, Manston to Warsaw, quite simply because no airline has ever flown it. It may be viable with the right aircraft.
There is also a little snippet that may, or may not, impact on Manston at some time. MK are clearly pursuing the transfer of their fleet to the UK register, note this extract from CAA Official Record Series 2 No. 1804:
"Secretary of State's Decisions on applications by UK operators to lease foreign-registered aircraft
The Secretary of State for Transport has granted approval to the following UK operators to lease foreign-registered aircraft:
Standard Procedure
MK Airlines Limited to extend its dry lease of six Ghanaian registered Boeing 747-200F aircraft (registrations 9G-MKU, 9G-MKR, 9G-MKS, 9G-MKP, 9G-MKL and 9G-MKM) from 22 June 2007 until 31 October 2007 to cover the period of transfer of the aircraft to the UK register."
"Route Licences
EEA air carriers may fly on most routes within the EEA without any further licence being required. For services either wholly or partly outside the EEA a licence holder will normally need to hold an additional licence, a Route Licence, which is also granted by the CAA; Route Licences can be granted only to holders of Operating Licences.
Despite their name, Route Licences do not normally cover just a single route. The most commonly granted licences permit any operations that are within the area permitted by the holder’s Air Operator’s Certificate, though there may be specific restrictions placed in specific circumstances. For scheduled services outside the EEA, the possession of a Route Licence does not however necessarily mean that the licence holder is free to commence services; it must also be designated by the Secretary of State under the terms of the bilateral Air Service Agreement between the UK and the country to which it is intended to operate. Although the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man are part of the UK, they are not members of the EU and therefore the Market Access Regulation does not apply."
It would therefore seem sensible for an airport to research "point to point" routes that may prove to be viable from its location, after all, they want their operation to be successfull. Quite clearly, the CAA will not be holding data on a route, for example, Manston to Warsaw, quite simply because no airline has ever flown it. It may be viable with the right aircraft.
There is also a little snippet that may, or may not, impact on Manston at some time. MK are clearly pursuing the transfer of their fleet to the UK register, note this extract from CAA Official Record Series 2 No. 1804:
"Secretary of State's Decisions on applications by UK operators to lease foreign-registered aircraft
The Secretary of State for Transport has granted approval to the following UK operators to lease foreign-registered aircraft:
Standard Procedure
MK Airlines Limited to extend its dry lease of six Ghanaian registered Boeing 747-200F aircraft (registrations 9G-MKU, 9G-MKR, 9G-MKS, 9G-MKP, 9G-MKL and 9G-MKM) from 22 June 2007 until 31 October 2007 to cover the period of transfer of the aircraft to the UK register."
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sittingbourne Kent and at Wimborne Dorset
Age: 37
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I notice that one can book Seguro flights for 2008 from Prestwick, but not from Manston. (Seguro AKA Kent Escapes).
Anybody know why?
Anybody know why?
Maybe due to the fact thats its only July and that they have not done the dates for next years Kent escapes there might even be new routes, Will have to wait and see
But if you say why have they done Seguro flights for 2008 from Prestwick, then maybe there doing there dates first before Kent Escapes. The reason there doing this survey is so they know what routes passagers would like from Masnton and how many times they use the routes and airport ectJames
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ireland
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MSE
MANSTON AIRPORT : If you delete the "+" at the end of your email link to the survey it should work.
Secondly, I feel DUB and EDI are definites for the new airline @ MSE.
Thirdly, I'd say the new airline will be either FLYbe, Eastern or FR !!!
Secondly, I feel DUB and EDI are definites for the new airline @ MSE.
Thirdly, I'd say the new airline will be either FLYbe, Eastern or FR !!!
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Isle of Thanet
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A chum sent me the link to the survey, so I completed it. The destinations in their list are only matched by Flybe., and we know they've been talking to them for what seems like ages; I think the BACON takeover set things back a bit.
Let's not get too excited, BUT we know that Infratil are very tight-lipped about new business. This looks like it has legs.
Let's not get too excited, BUT we know that Infratil are very tight-lipped about new business. This looks like it has legs.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sittingbourne Kent and at Wimborne Dorset
Age: 37
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jes if you look on that survey it has BACON on it, so maybe it could be Flybe who knows. Dont know if this is the right place but does anyone know if there any warbirds in east off canterbury today thanks. and Thank you RE72 Now completed it.
James
James
