Air France
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Klm/AirFrance/Alitalia affair. (merged)
Klm-AirFrance are almost taking over Alitalia
Rumours say 500 pilots will be fired.
This will create a big problems for students pilot in the coming year.
What do you guys think?
Rumours say 500 pilots will be fired.
This will create a big problems for students pilot in the coming year.
What do you guys think?
Join Date: Mar 2005
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With Air France advertising for EU pilots for the A320, I doubt that there will be any reduncancies. Take a look at the job sectioin in Flight international this week, it's all good news for us all.
AZ strikes
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KLM/AF to buy Alitalia
Does anybody wonder why nobody else was even thinking of touching Alitalia? Hope that AF/KLM does not burn their fingers with that deal...
Could very well happen. This one and the decline of near bankrupt Olympic Airways will only help to clean up inequities in the market. Stable and profitable operators = stable jobs for us all.
Could very well happen. This one and the decline of near bankrupt Olympic Airways will only help to clean up inequities in the market. Stable and profitable operators = stable jobs for us all.
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Every child knows that the italians will strike; even the AF/KL management won't be such idiots that they don't know.
I suspect that's part of the plan.
Let them strike and run the company down.
And then just start from scratch.
Difference with SABENA is that they didn't have a home-market.
Whilst Italy is Europe's last available major market for sale.
That's the whole point; It's about Italy and not about AZ!
I suspect that's part of the plan.
Let them strike and run the company down.
And then just start from scratch.
Difference with SABENA is that they didn't have a home-market.
Whilst Italy is Europe's last available major market for sale.
That's the whole point; It's about Italy and not about AZ!
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Political issue of dual hub
It's not just about the inevitable strikes. The other tricky problem with AZ is that for political reasons Alitalia had to maintain two hubs: one in Rome FCO, for the administrative capital, and one in Milan Malpensa, serving the economic capital. They couldn't abandon Rome since it is the home of the government and closing the Malpensa hub would wind up not just the unions but also the northern Italian separatists, the Lega Nord, and more moderate local politicians. A lot of local jobs are at stake and a lot of people are watching AF-KLM closely.
Will AF-KLM be able to fix this and choose one hub? Closing one AZ base could eliminate jobs even if there is plenty of work because not everyone will want to move. Could someone else then go for the other hub?
Will AF-KLM be able to fix this and choose one hub? Closing one AZ base could eliminate jobs even if there is plenty of work because not everyone will want to move. Could someone else then go for the other hub?
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Don't forget that this is a take-over and not a merger. I am no specialist in employment laws but me thinks the union (AZ) will have no say whatsoever in this case. They can strike, refuse to work, call for people to call in sick etc etc. Only result, as someone already mentioned, will be that the company will cease operations and AF/KLM will start up a new operation with a similar structure to AF and KLM.
I spoke to an Italian colleague the other day and he told me that the big problem in AZ is not really the pilot force. As far as I could understand (think I have read something similar from a AZ pilot here on pprune) the major problem has to do with contracts between the AZ "airline" and the AZ "gound handling", Alitech, Cleaning etc etc. These contracts prevents the "airline" from signing contracts with outside companies to become more cost efficient and competitive. Anyone?
I would be showering in champagne if ezy were to be bought out by such a strong alliance as the AF/KLM one!
With the unstable economy ahead, slowing UK housing market, US economy in general, more competition on EU-US routes, high oil price, higher environmental pressure from EU governments etc etc I see AF/KLM, Lufthansa and perhaps BA (Let's see how they handle the strike threat!) totally dominating the future European market together with a few big low cost operators. If you are not working for one of these companies your future could potentially be quite uncertain.
I spoke to an Italian colleague the other day and he told me that the big problem in AZ is not really the pilot force. As far as I could understand (think I have read something similar from a AZ pilot here on pprune) the major problem has to do with contracts between the AZ "airline" and the AZ "gound handling", Alitech, Cleaning etc etc. These contracts prevents the "airline" from signing contracts with outside companies to become more cost efficient and competitive. Anyone?
I would be showering in champagne if ezy were to be bought out by such a strong alliance as the AF/KLM one!
With the unstable economy ahead, slowing UK housing market, US economy in general, more competition on EU-US routes, high oil price, higher environmental pressure from EU governments etc etc I see AF/KLM, Lufthansa and perhaps BA (Let's see how they handle the strike threat!) totally dominating the future European market together with a few big low cost operators. If you are not working for one of these companies your future could potentially be quite uncertain.
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Will AF-KLM be able to fix this and choose one hub? Closing one AZ base could eliminate jobs even if there is plenty of work because not everyone will want to move. Could someone else then go for the other hub?
Sounds a bit harsh, but this is the result of open competition in EU.
AF/KLM takeover of ALITALIA
Damn.
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Well sad Orangedriver. 
Alitalia management has been unwilling to change Alitalia for the better for their own benefit
. The result is an airline a step away from bankruptcy. 
I believe that Unions had a big role in bringing AZ to this situation. They don't understand that rules have changed. 9/11, Oil price, low cost airlines, etc....As I sad many times, Michael O'Leary should be running Alitalia...
Alitalia management has been unwilling to change Alitalia for the better for their own benefit
. The result is an airline a step away from bankruptcy. I believe that Unions had a big role in bringing AZ to this situation. They don't understand that rules have changed. 9/11, Oil price, low cost airlines, etc....As I sad many times, Michael O'Leary should be running Alitalia...
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Originally Posted by deltayankee
The other tricky problem with AZ is that for political reasons Alitalia had to maintain two hubs: one in Rome FCO, for the administrative capital, and one in Milan Malpensa, serving the economic capital.
There's 660km by road between Fiumicino and Malpensa - that's further than the distance between Air Canada's Montreal and Toronto hubs with a lot more people in between. AF-KLM should be fairly well versed now in how to square that circle given they collectively operate two hubs spaced by 483km road distance.
Paxing All Over The World
GobonaStick
Don't forget that there has always been a large percentage owned by the government. THEY were not going to risk losing voters by allowing the mgmt to make people redundant. Many Italian organisations, particularly government ones, still provide a job for life.
The Italians have yet to learn the uncomfortable lessons that other European countries have been learning for the past 25 years.
Where the management has really failed has been in telling the unions to go and screw themselves. When your airline's on its knees, you have nothing to lose by taking a tough stand against the unions.
The Italians have yet to learn the uncomfortable lessons that other European countries have been learning for the past 25 years.
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BA tried to buy KLM and were blocked in the courts as the merged airline would "have a monopoly" on certain routes. AF have never made a huge profit but were able to buy KLM. This was never blocked and now they are after Alitalia. Whose cash are they spending buy other airlines and why are they not stoped?
short flights long nights
Ahhh...I hate to be the one to break the bad news fastener, but the AF-KLM group is the largest airline, by revenue, in the world. The last quarter result showed a profit of 311 million euros.
Alitalia is a basket case..and nobody else wants it. If AF does not take it, then in the very near future there will be no Alitalia left for anyone to buy.
Alitalia is a basket case..and nobody else wants it. If AF does not take it, then in the very near future there will be no Alitalia left for anyone to buy.
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From 1990 to 1997 AF lost 21.6 billion francs. The return to profit without loosing staff etc seems a bit of a miracle to me. But then I'm not a French accountant. KLM/BA merge was oposed on the grounds that the combined airline would be too big. So how big is the af/KLM combo? I know that the merged airline is very successful but looking at other airlines profits they must have stashed an awful lot of cash under the matress to be able to buy another airline a few years after returning to profit in 97.