BA Vs Air Southwest
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BA Vs Air Southwest - Willie goes surfing!
Well! Set them up and knock em down!
BA said the year-round daily service will start on 20 March, with flights on a 150-seat Boeing 737.
Flights will depart from Gatwick at 1150 and return from Newquay at 1420.
British Airways, which dropped its "loss-making" service in 2003, said the increasing popularity of Cornwall had prompted the rethink.
Commercial director Robert Boyle said: "There is a growing demand for leisure travel to Cornwall, in part due to the popularity of attractions such as the Eden Project."
Airline 'surprised'
He added: "This new service will provide easy access to London and the South East for leisure and business travellers from the county."
The one round-trip daily service will be in direct competition with Air South West.
BA said one-way fares for flights between London Gatwick and Newquay would start at £35 including taxes, while Air South West's flights start at £38 including taxes.
Air South West, which took over the Gatwick service from BA in 2003, currently operates up to five flights a day from Plymouth to Gatwick via Newquay.
Malcolm Naylor, chief executive of Air South West, said BA's announcement on Monday came as "quite a surprise".
He said: "I think it's going to be an interesting competitive situation, but that's not unusual in this industry."
Tim Jones, chairman of the Devon and Cornwall Business Council, said: "To some extent we're surprised. They only pulled out four years ago.
"But it's certainly good news for Cornwall, but it will undoubtedly have an impact on Air South West who filled the slot."
Title acknowledged to Biddedout!
BA said the year-round daily service will start on 20 March, with flights on a 150-seat Boeing 737.
Flights will depart from Gatwick at 1150 and return from Newquay at 1420.
British Airways, which dropped its "loss-making" service in 2003, said the increasing popularity of Cornwall had prompted the rethink.
Commercial director Robert Boyle said: "There is a growing demand for leisure travel to Cornwall, in part due to the popularity of attractions such as the Eden Project."
Airline 'surprised'
He added: "This new service will provide easy access to London and the South East for leisure and business travellers from the county."
The one round-trip daily service will be in direct competition with Air South West.
BA said one-way fares for flights between London Gatwick and Newquay would start at £35 including taxes, while Air South West's flights start at £38 including taxes.
Air South West, which took over the Gatwick service from BA in 2003, currently operates up to five flights a day from Plymouth to Gatwick via Newquay.
Malcolm Naylor, chief executive of Air South West, said BA's announcement on Monday came as "quite a surprise".
He said: "I think it's going to be an interesting competitive situation, but that's not unusual in this industry."
Tim Jones, chairman of the Devon and Cornwall Business Council, said: "To some extent we're surprised. They only pulled out four years ago.
"But it's certainly good news for Cornwall, but it will undoubtedly have an impact on Air South West who filled the slot."
Title acknowledged to Biddedout!
Last edited by Thumperdown; 30th Jan 2007 at 08:22.
Thumper, you beat me to it, I was just about to post this, under the title Willie Goes Surfing..
Before the deal to dispose of the so called “No strategic value to BA - Basket Case” airline BA Connect is sealed, Willie is putting 737’s on BA Connect’s former LGW - Newquay route.
Until about three years ago, BA connect operated a successful LGW Newquay service using efficient Dash 8’s (It used to be a Bymon service into LHR until BA borrowed the LHR slots). BA Connect pulled off the route claiming significant losses as the reason. The routes along with much support went to Sutton Harbour (Air Southwest). So BA dumps an arguably unprofitable operation, gives it away to another operator who in BA’s view could make a better job of it. Three years later, it goes head to head with that new operator using airframes with three times the capacity.
Still, BA Connect's MD told us we were making substantial losses on this operation, so it must be true.
Now that BA have had time to study Flybe and its business plans in depth, will they do the same to them after a short period of grace?
Before the deal to dispose of the so called “No strategic value to BA - Basket Case” airline BA Connect is sealed, Willie is putting 737’s on BA Connect’s former LGW - Newquay route.
Until about three years ago, BA connect operated a successful LGW Newquay service using efficient Dash 8’s (It used to be a Bymon service into LHR until BA borrowed the LHR slots). BA Connect pulled off the route claiming significant losses as the reason. The routes along with much support went to Sutton Harbour (Air Southwest). So BA dumps an arguably unprofitable operation, gives it away to another operator who in BA’s view could make a better job of it. Three years later, it goes head to head with that new operator using airframes with three times the capacity.
Still, BA Connect's MD told us we were making substantial losses on this operation, so it must be true.
Now that BA have had time to study Flybe and its business plans in depth, will they do the same to them after a short period of grace?
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9th Aug BA LGW - NQY inc taxes cheapest fare £84.40 one way
9th Aug ASW LGW - NQY in taxes cheapest fare £38.00 one way
I trust the locals will continue to support their local airline who will be
a) Cheaper
b) unlikely to dump them at their next whim
9th Aug ASW LGW - NQY in taxes cheapest fare £38.00 one way
I trust the locals will continue to support their local airline who will be
a) Cheaper
b) unlikely to dump them at their next whim
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Wasn't this all because Ryan Air sqeezed them so hard on their deal that NQY realised that they were not making any money so had to introduce this charge?
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Wasn't this all because Ryan Air sqeezed them so hard on their deal that NQY realised that they were not making any money so had to introduce this charge?
at at least £70 return it's still cheaper to drive (just), depending on what you drive and how many boards you have on the roof...
what's the excess charge for taking surfboards with either airline?
So BA couldn't make money offering 100 seats a day (approx, as they are shared with Plymouth), with 3-4 departures each way and convenient times for business travellers, connectors at Gatwick, and day return pax.
However, they now can make money offering 150 seats a day on a once daily flight at off-peak times.
Always seems strange that BA are so picky, and choosy, and careful, and successful, starting new routes out of Heathrow, but go for all sorts of oddball places from Gatwick, many of which don't work out.
I always thought the reason many BA Connect (or whatever it's called this week) routes are "unprofitable" is that while they are fine on direct costs, they get loaded with such a huge proportion of overhead costs by HQ, plus inappropriate division of revenues on connecting tickets, they cannot help but be seen by the Waterworld beancounters as not worthwhile. Is the arithmetic done somewhat differently for the Gatwick startup routes ?
Ryanair are still operating to Newquay. A once-daily evening service from Stansted.
However, they now can make money offering 150 seats a day on a once daily flight at off-peak times.
Always seems strange that BA are so picky, and choosy, and careful, and successful, starting new routes out of Heathrow, but go for all sorts of oddball places from Gatwick, many of which don't work out.
I always thought the reason many BA Connect (or whatever it's called this week) routes are "unprofitable" is that while they are fine on direct costs, they get loaded with such a huge proportion of overhead costs by HQ, plus inappropriate division of revenues on connecting tickets, they cannot help but be seen by the Waterworld beancounters as not worthwhile. Is the arithmetic done somewhat differently for the Gatwick startup routes ?
i was led to believe the charge was the reason that ryanair stopped their stansted - newquay service; leaving air southwest the monopoly.
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Ryanair are still operating to Newquay. A once-daily evening service from Stansted.
WHBM,
Exactly, it's the extra costs which brought BAcon / BACX down. An exaple being when we operated the J41. it was a difficult aircrraft to make money with , but when we were a franchise only before becoming a wholy owned subsidiary, we could at least demand to only pay BA the going rate for a turnround. It could just about tick along.
As soon as BA Bought BACX, turnround and associated costs almost doubled since BACX had to pay the full BA internal rates. Overnight the J41 became a financial disaster area and it had to be given away to Eastern.
No doubt they are doing wery well with them particularly as BAConnect are still paying for them.
The WW ethos that every part of a company has to pull it's weight and contribute to the bottom line is all very well, but it becomes a bit of a farce when other parts of the operation prevent it from operaing efficiently.
Exactly, it's the extra costs which brought BAcon / BACX down. An exaple being when we operated the J41. it was a difficult aircrraft to make money with , but when we were a franchise only before becoming a wholy owned subsidiary, we could at least demand to only pay BA the going rate for a turnround. It could just about tick along.
As soon as BA Bought BACX, turnround and associated costs almost doubled since BACX had to pay the full BA internal rates. Overnight the J41 became a financial disaster area and it had to be given away to Eastern.
No doubt they are doing wery well with them particularly as BAConnect are still paying for them.
The WW ethos that every part of a company has to pull it's weight and contribute to the bottom line is all very well, but it becomes a bit of a farce when other parts of the operation prevent it from operaing efficiently.
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Perhaps this BA move may stir ASW into considering adding EXT into the operation to try and deal with the possible shortfall in revenue. A 3 million catchment area, so they say, with no connections to any London airport since Flybe dropped their LGW operation.
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Thumperdown it is a tad misleading to quote that one-way fare. BA always are dear for a one way ticket, and let's be honest who is likely to just buy a one way fare to NQY from LGW. However booking a return on BA turns your prices on their head and they work out cheaper than ASW.
Perhaps this BA move may stir ASW into considering adding EXT into the operation to try and deal with the possible shortfall in revenue. A 3 million catchment area, so they say
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We sat dumbfounded as David Evans told us how it was impossible to make money out of the BACX South West operation. This having been the mainstay and cash cow which nurtured and grew Brymon.
"Just because the seats are filled does not mean we are making money" he would shout at those of us who dared to question his commercial judgement. (It later transpired that the books had been cooked by adding overheads such as grounded aircraft to that operation!.so the decision was clearly political )
It is unbelievably ironic that this announcement should come now just as what is left (not much actualy) of BACON gets surrendered to FLYBE.
It is also particularly cruel on those who escaped from the likes of David Evans from BACX to take their chances with Air Southwest that, just as they were feeling secure, the ghost of BA now comes back to haunt them and create uncetainty for their futures once again.
A plague on all you discredited incompetent fat cat and downright beastly little BA managers......................
"Just because the seats are filled does not mean we are making money" he would shout at those of us who dared to question his commercial judgement. (It later transpired that the books had been cooked by adding overheads such as grounded aircraft to that operation!.so the decision was clearly political )
It is unbelievably ironic that this announcement should come now just as what is left (not much actualy) of BACON gets surrendered to FLYBE.
It is also particularly cruel on those who escaped from the likes of David Evans from BACX to take their chances with Air Southwest that, just as they were feeling secure, the ghost of BA now comes back to haunt them and create uncetainty for their futures once again.
A plague on all you discredited incompetent fat cat and downright beastly little BA managers......................
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I agree with Falcon's post and hope that ASW bring back Exeter into the fold as it has been too long since it had a link to London. As for BA's latest doemstic route, I am very cynical as to why they picked Newquay and am worried that it is a move to weaken or damage ASW. Next thing you know, BA will start to serve Blackpool from LGW. But isn't all a bit dim? One second we hear that BA are pulling out of domestic routes by flogging BACX to Flybe and the next thing you know, they are back at it again.
BA can come and operate a noisy 735; I much prefer ASW's Dash 8 and their service is impeccable and I will not be using BA on the Newquay route.
BA can come and operate a noisy 735; I much prefer ASW's Dash 8 and their service is impeccable and I will not be using BA on the Newquay route.