Pax sit-in at MAN
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why couldn't the aircraft continue to Gatwick as planned, drop the passengers and relocate to Manchester? Ok the passengers waiting at Manchester will have to wait, but that's not unusual. Sounds to me like the economic/convenience benefit to the company in not having to find standby crews took precedent over keeping the customer happy.
Most of the Lapland charters leave at breakfast time and get home late evening. And are sold as a children-and-family day out.
We can be certain that when the aircraft returned to Manchester it would be late evening, that the buses would not have even been organised yet, they would doubtless not have got away from Manchester until well after midnight (it being not an easy job to find multiple bus drivers for a 10-hour round trip on spec at 10 pm at night) and with the misty conditions on the motorway would have turned up at Gatwick round about breakfast-time.
And this was an operational decision. The aircraft was not tech and the crew were in hours to go to Gatwick.
I can only presume the commonsense team at Monarch ops were not on duty that evening.
We can be certain that when the aircraft returned to Manchester it would be late evening, that the buses would not have even been organised yet, they would doubtless not have got away from Manchester until well after midnight (it being not an easy job to find multiple bus drivers for a 10-hour round trip on spec at 10 pm at night) and with the misty conditions on the motorway would have turned up at Gatwick round about breakfast-time.
And this was an operational decision. The aircraft was not tech and the crew were in hours to go to Gatwick.
I can only presume the commonsense team at Monarch ops were not on duty that evening.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London
Age: 59
Posts: 205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Further to my original post the a/c sat at EGCC was shanghaied to operate the Alicante that the a/c struck by lightning in EIDW was supposed to operate.
Whether or not it was unreasonable for the EGCC pax to deny the Alicante passengers at least some chance of getting to their destination is not the point. Im not sure that they knew the whole story. But what does concern me is the militant attitude taken by the pax.
It is quite likely that they didnt know what was actaully going on but if asked to vacate an aircraft who knows why they have asked for this maybe there is a security problem and may be the easiest and safest way to get them off.
It is symtematic of modern society that to get what you want, you shout long and hard while quoting the law with a "Im going to sue you unles i get what i want" thrown in.
If it were me i dont know what i would do n(well i would if it was FR) but the pax made their intentions quite clear by texting camera phone pictures to the gutter press (news of the world).
By this time the line in the sand had been drawn.
Merry Christmas one and all
Whether or not it was unreasonable for the EGCC pax to deny the Alicante passengers at least some chance of getting to their destination is not the point. Im not sure that they knew the whole story. But what does concern me is the militant attitude taken by the pax.
It is quite likely that they didnt know what was actaully going on but if asked to vacate an aircraft who knows why they have asked for this maybe there is a security problem and may be the easiest and safest way to get them off.
It is symtematic of modern society that to get what you want, you shout long and hard while quoting the law with a "Im going to sue you unles i get what i want" thrown in.
If it were me i dont know what i would do n(well i would if it was FR) but the pax made their intentions quite clear by texting camera phone pictures to the gutter press (news of the world).
By this time the line in the sand had been drawn.
Merry Christmas one and all
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: western europe
Posts: 1,367
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is symtematic of modern society that to get what you want, you shout long and hard while quoting the law with a "Im going to sue you unles i get what i want" thrown in.
I hasten to add, not by the pilots!!!! ...... (shot at dawn or thrown overboard .... I can never remember)
I was wondering if a Nat. Exp. Coach timetable was on board .... 7 hrs 30 mins up to 8hrs 50 mins for Man>Gat depending on time of day ..... wonder if that allows for Fog? ....
Not sure how much the Lapland trip in question cost but a buddie was quoted a day trip at 499.00 euro - child and adult at 599.00 euro ..... a couple of adults and a handfull of kids - say 4 grand for the day ....
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"It is symtematic of modern society that to get what you want, you shout long and hard while quoting the law with a "Im going to sue you unles i get what i want" thrown in."
I'm afraid that what the British population needs is not a more apathy but rather they should be more inclined to point out how unacceptable the current piddle pot of mediocrity that passes for Blair's Britain has become and demand the standards that were the norm.
Sorry for the negative waves but accusing people of mutiny when they are only standing up for what they paid for cheapens us and is just bully tactics.
I'm afraid that what the British population needs is not a more apathy but rather they should be more inclined to point out how unacceptable the current piddle pot of mediocrity that passes for Blair's Britain has become and demand the standards that were the norm.
Sorry for the negative waves but accusing people of mutiny when they are only standing up for what they paid for cheapens us and is just bully tactics.
Good one Spud, private company takes a private commercial decision and you blame the government! Class. 
Good on the SLF I say, more power to em.
Good on the SLF I say, more power to em.
I'm really astounded by the replies from some posters who are in the industry. Now let's all calm down and look at this a little more objectively. It's a day charter to Lapland. I would imagine that half the pax are children of a relative young age. A few of these children may have illnesses. It's a heck of a long day out for them - and their parents/guardians. Now, at the end of this tiring long (and not cheap) day the airline wants to renegade on their contract and transport them by road for the last sector - an eight hour plus overnight coach trip on foggy motorways. Is that really fair? Be honest with yourself, if it had been you would you not have kicked up a fuss? Being in the industry I'm a pretty tolerant person when it comes to weather/technical/other valid operational diversions. However, in this particular case I would say that ops got it 100% WRONG and I don't blame the passengers for their reaction.
It is symtematic of modern society that to get what you want, you shout long and hard while quoting the law with a "Im going to sue you unles i get what i want" thrown in
They could have flown direct to Gatwick & onwards to Manchester, then done the stranded Alicante. Instead, more time & inconvenience was caused trying save a few bob.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Middle england
Posts: 539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Santa flight
In my experiance the main factor is cost to the company and everything else comes second, including company image. The reverse here is I suspect because the loss of image was to great.
Centre cities
Centre cities
So whoever thought this was the best way to handle an AOG in the fleet ?
Has nobody at Monarch ops, when faced with the loss of an aircraft from the active fleet, ever heard of the word "subcharter" ? Or did nobody have the phone number of Titan or any of the others ?
I think the greatest disappointment is some of us here remember when Monarch were a class act. Here they are, charging substantial premium fares (which I assure you is what are charged on the Lapland flights in the final week before Christmas) and yet acting like the worst LCC plonkers.
Has nobody at Monarch ops, when faced with the loss of an aircraft from the active fleet, ever heard of the word "subcharter" ? Or did nobody have the phone number of Titan or any of the others ?
I think the greatest disappointment is some of us here remember when Monarch were a class act. Here they are, charging substantial premium fares (which I assure you is what are charged on the Lapland flights in the final week before Christmas) and yet acting like the worst LCC plonkers.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: EGGW
Posts: 2,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WHBM.
Monarch only supply the aircraft, they do not sell Lap Land Flights to Joe public.
So it makes no difference that as you quote they are LCC, it was a charter flight as is every Santa flight at this time of year.
You might also find that they were already Sub Chartering aircraft on Friday and Saturday.
However it was a bloody big own goal by whoever made the decision, someone should have known it would look bad in the press, after First Choices problem a few weeks before.
Monarch only supply the aircraft, they do not sell Lap Land Flights to Joe public.
So it makes no difference that as you quote they are LCC, it was a charter flight as is every Santa flight at this time of year.
You might also find that they were already Sub Chartering aircraft on Friday and Saturday.
However it was a bloody big own goal by whoever made the decision, someone should have known it would look bad in the press, after First Choices problem a few weeks before.
Death Cruiser Flight Crew
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Vaucluse, France.
Posts: 613
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, it may make for interesting reading in the next edition of Monline!
I suspect that the captain concerned made representations to Ops., on the company mobile, that what they were proposing was "Not a very bright idea." (I paraphrase.) They no doubt would come back with the thing about not being in possession of 'The Big Picture.' After further discussions, the 'Duty Exec.' probably got involved and the decision was made, to close up and fly on to LGW.
What a pity, as it spoiled a special day out, which everyone would have been trying their utmost to provide, of course.
As Mr @ Spotty M says, we don't know how hard-pressed Ops. were. In any case, I think I'm right in saying that the decision to sub-charter has long-since been taken away from the Ops. Controllers, through no fault of their own, and placed with higher management i.e. the 'Duty Exec'.
I suspect that the captain concerned made representations to Ops., on the company mobile, that what they were proposing was "Not a very bright idea." (I paraphrase.) They no doubt would come back with the thing about not being in possession of 'The Big Picture.' After further discussions, the 'Duty Exec.' probably got involved and the decision was made, to close up and fly on to LGW.
What a pity, as it spoiled a special day out, which everyone would have been trying their utmost to provide, of course.
As Mr @ Spotty M says, we don't know how hard-pressed Ops. were. In any case, I think I'm right in saying that the decision to sub-charter has long-since been taken away from the Ops. Controllers, through no fault of their own, and placed with higher management i.e. the 'Duty Exec'.
Last edited by Georgeablelovehowindia; 26th Dec 2006 at 10:34. Reason: Insert: through no fault of their own
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: germany
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MMMM, possible, but Monarch are falling to bits, they are under crewed, hardly suprising when you look at the package, now only comparable with the percieved bottom of the market startups, they have appalling management at the top who just won't listen to anyone. The rostering is a joke, they just won't invest any money into anything
oh and the company mobile was probably flat.
oh and the company mobile was probably flat.
Last edited by nilcostoptionmyass; 26th Dec 2006 at 13:48.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Perhaps it's time for Monarch to concentrate solely on their scheduled arm and scrap the charter operation. Their scheduled (ZB) service appears to be going from strength to strength with passenger numbers seemingly on a constant increase. They're up there with the leading Loco's at both MAN and BHX and compete well with EZY at LGW and LTN. Their scheduled low cost product is one of the best of all the LCC's and they have formed a large 'fan base' of frequent fliers. Their charter operation however hasn't performed so consistently over recent years. The reputation of Monarch as a charter carrier is certainly not as good as it used to be and the many package holiday travellers would prefer to fly TOM/MYT/FCA especially on long haul, as the standards of both service and punctuality on Monarch charter have slipped dramatically.
Therefore I ask, is it time for Monarch to ditch their traditional charter services and free up aircraft to operate more ZB flights that are performing well. With this additional scheduled capacity they could start up a new low cost base or consolidate services at their additional bases. Certainly at MAN they could easily overtake LS and TOM with additional aircraft.
Anyway, back on topic... whilst the decision to bus the LGW passengers from MAN was a bad move by Monarch, I believe that the behaviour of the passengers on board was unacceptable. Of course they have a right to be angry but to stage a sit in against the direct orders of the crew is just out of order. And sending videos to the News of the World is utter madness. I'm sorry but whilst you're onboard an aircraft, the orders to the crew should be adhered to and i have a sad feeling that this will now open the gates for people to think they can do as they please and ignore what they're instructed by the airport/airline staff in charge. And that will be a sad, sorry state indeed if we get to that. Just my 2 pennies worth...
Hope everyone had a great xmas!
Therefore I ask, is it time for Monarch to ditch their traditional charter services and free up aircraft to operate more ZB flights that are performing well. With this additional scheduled capacity they could start up a new low cost base or consolidate services at their additional bases. Certainly at MAN they could easily overtake LS and TOM with additional aircraft.
Anyway, back on topic... whilst the decision to bus the LGW passengers from MAN was a bad move by Monarch, I believe that the behaviour of the passengers on board was unacceptable. Of course they have a right to be angry but to stage a sit in against the direct orders of the crew is just out of order. And sending videos to the News of the World is utter madness. I'm sorry but whilst you're onboard an aircraft, the orders to the crew should be adhered to and i have a sad feeling that this will now open the gates for people to think they can do as they please and ignore what they're instructed by the airport/airline staff in charge. And that will be a sad, sorry state indeed if we get to that. Just my 2 pennies worth...
Hope everyone had a great xmas!
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Wherever my current employers wish to send me !!
Posts: 718
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jeeeez !!
It's bloody obvious that none of you actually work in Ops/crewing.
Don't work for Monarch, but the scenario is a familiar one for me.
Needs must, sometimes, I'm afraid. I know it's a huge cliche, but the "Bigger picture" has to take prioroty on occasion.
At least this was planned for the way back, and not outbound !
Mountain out of a molehill..(....and yet another bloody cliche !!)
It's bloody obvious that none of you actually work in Ops/crewing.
Don't work for Monarch, but the scenario is a familiar one for me.
Needs must, sometimes, I'm afraid. I know it's a huge cliche, but the "Bigger picture" has to take prioroty on occasion.
At least this was planned for the way back, and not outbound !
Mountain out of a molehill..(....and yet another bloody cliche !!)
I'm afraid Monarch customer service sucks.
I've travelled as SLF with Monarch for 30 years, on 1-11s, B720s & B737s & they were always brilliant. These days, they charge more & offer less. Recently, we were charged twice for the same extra leg room seat due to a fault on their on line check in. I received my refund a week after the flight, my mate had to write 3 e-mails & 3 letters & wait 3 months before he got his refund. Both of us were just credited with the £15 overcharged, neither of us got an apology for their mistake nor an explantation why we were charged twice.
If we have a choice, neither of us would choose Monarch above somebody else.
I think they have forgotten where they get their income from.
I've travelled as SLF with Monarch for 30 years, on 1-11s, B720s & B737s & they were always brilliant. These days, they charge more & offer less. Recently, we were charged twice for the same extra leg room seat due to a fault on their on line check in. I received my refund a week after the flight, my mate had to write 3 e-mails & 3 letters & wait 3 months before he got his refund. Both of us were just credited with the £15 overcharged, neither of us got an apology for their mistake nor an explantation why we were charged twice.
If we have a choice, neither of us would choose Monarch above somebody else.
I think they have forgotten where they get their income from.