BANGKOK SUVARNABHUMI

[Will Hung]

"The entire thing can be resolved in very short order. The only possible reason why standard engineering methodology has not already been applied is that some person or persons with the ability to obstruct the analysis already knows what the test results would be".

Sums it up perfectly !

[Metro man]

Hong Kong airport was built in a far more difficult position than Bangkoks yet hasn't suffered the same problems. Difference being it was constructed properly in the first place.

After only four monts of operation SVB is already cracking up, what does that say about the quality of workmanship. As soon as one crack is fixed another appears to replace it.

Temporarily close the place, shift all traffic back to the old airport and have the place examined properly by qualified people, whose findings don't depend on the contents of a brown envelope, to see if it can be fixed.

[ZFT]

I believe this sorry saga will reach it's inevitable conclusion soon.

In one way or another Suvarnabhumi will have to (partially) close for quite a long period.

Dr Prasert, CEO of Bangkok Airways who have built Koh Samui, Trat and Sukhothai airports themselves with no problems estimates that the reconstruction would take at least 15 to 18 months!!!!

[Whitehatter]

CNN have picked up on the story now with a lovely strut-smashing pothole picture

Wouldn't that look wonderful with an A380 nosewheel stuck in it!

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/TRAVEL/0....ap/index.html

[X_class]

Originally Posted by Whitehatter

CNN have picked up on the story now with a lovely strut-smashing pothole picture
Wouldn't that look wonderful with an A380 nosewheel stuck in it!
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/TRAVEL/0....ap/index.html

Whitehatter - are you sure that is a pothole ?
Looking at the picture I see a rectangular hole with sharp vertical edges - I would guess that has been excavated to repair a damaged section. Your suggestion that the hole is the result of traffic using the taxiway seems a little unlikely.

[Elroy Jettson]

Ok, anyone operating in there regularly, how bad is it? Surely cant be any worse than the goat track taxiways of SIN Changi?

[faheel]

You have got to be joking Elroy. Just where are these goat tracks??
I have been operating into and out of Changi for the
last 16 years and have never seen anything remotely like a "goat track "

[Elroy Jettson]

Ive only operated there for 10 years, so you win. Im not joking, I rate it as one of the roughest patched up poorly maintained runways and taxiway systems I dont enjoy operating in to. But each to their own eh?

Cheers.

[CYRILJGROOVE]

I heard that the Army Generals own the Limosine Companies thats why it is hard to find the Taxi rank as they did not put any signs up directing people to them initially.

[ZFT]

Originally Posted by CYRILJGROOVE

I heard that the Army Generals own the Limosine Companies thats why it is hard to find the Taxi rank as they did not put any signs up directing people to them initially.

You heard incorrectly. The limo contract was 'bought' well before the coup.

[Bangkokeasy]

In case you didn't pick this up from other sources, as expected, the Thai DCA did not renew the temporary ICAO certification for Suvarnabhumi last week, so it is now running without.

[Fright Level]

where are these goat tracks??

I've flown in and out of Changi for 15 years. The main runway surfaces are dreadful and departures off 20C can be quite rough as you approach V1.

Although not quite as bad, I've seen gear & tire pressure (false) messages pop up at high speeds during the t/o roll as the ride over the surface is so bad.

About time Changi invested some money in their main runways rather before they spend a fortune widening taxiways to fit their new 380's.

[reynoldsno1]

Does ICAO have a similar system to monitor construction quality as the runway develops?

ICAO is part of the UN - signatories (i.e State governments) to the Chicago Convention agree to observe the Standards & Recommended Practices laid down by ICAO, or inform ICAO when there are differences. The individual States' regulatory authorities are invested with the responsibility to implement their government's policy - so the Thai DCA handling certification of BKK to ICAO standards is nothing unusual, it's done that way in countries all around the world.....

[charlesfrith]

They are not teething problems

The new MTR was involved in an accident due to humans not because the railway tracks had been built on a swamp with contractors raking in untold millions of dollars by building what is and always will be a sinking runway.

The solution to the rapidly eroding runway has been given a radical suggestion by Thailand's leading architect in a newspaper interview. He said it (the runway) needs to be built on stilts.

Now that might seem crazy but it's actually a radical solution to a crisis at this new airport. I would urge you pilots to boycott the airport until all flights are moved back to Don Muang. It's older but it's safer. The impact of 400 landings or so a day is taking it's toll on this airport that is rapidly going down in history as Thailand's most dramatic failure to understand that cutting corners costs lives. As they did in the Tsunami when the person responsible failed to warn Phuket even though they knew what was going to happen.

I've been in Thailand for 8 years and I've never known Thais to be so scared of what's happening. It's either Don Muang or Disaster.

[Bangkokeasy]

Well, it is now official, according to a decision by the Thai government yesterday, most domestic flights will now transfer back to Don Muang. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007...s_30025475.php

Whilst I do not quite go along with Charlesfrith's scary comment, it is certainly a national disgrace and it should be born in mind that the repairs to the tarmac at Suvarnabhumi will require the closing of each runway in turn for a considerable time, as I am pretty sure the whole things need re-laying down to a considerable depth. In the meantime, there is the danger of sink holes appearing, as the groundwater continues to recede over the next three months. It is not just the surface that is a problem, but the sand that was used as a base, which was of the wrong type and does not do the job of carrying away water sufficiently well.

Up to now, the runway and taxi-ways have only been patched, which just won't hack it in the long run. If you have driven the highway from town to the airport, which was also built to lower than required standard, then you can see the result. Admittedly not so critical, but constructed to even lower standards than the airport surface itself, the highway has been repaired about 4 times since the airport opened, due to subsidence and surface disintegration.

[charlesfrith]

Why the airport is a stinker of a heap

Why the airport is a stinker of a heap

by zigtoc@[EMAIL PROTECTED] Jan 25, 2007 at 12:45 PM

Old Thai proverbs shed light on airport fiascoWhy can't they do one thing right at Suvarnabhumi Airport? In a way,the Suvarnabhumi Airport mirrors Thai society.We have an excellent location to be the transport hub of SoutheastAsia. We are a great nation with a rich history (have you watched "TheLegend of King Naresuan"?). We have the natural resources. We have thefacilities. But we can't do things right.Why?You probably have to go back to the Thai proverbs or old Thai sayingsto understand the particular traits that have given rise to the motherof all sloppy and corrupt projects - the new airport.It took more than 40 years, an incredibly long time, to plan, designand build this airport, during which time politicians came and went.This is in line with the saying chao cham yen cham ('I just wash onedish in the morning and another dish in the evening'), which describesmotionless people who are very economical with their energy and whorarely set their sights on getting anything done. Chao cham yen cham ismost often used to describe civil servants who are lazy and lack theincentive to work. Well, that's why it took us 40 years to build theairport. Cracks have begun to appear in a taxiway and runway only fourmonths after its opening. This has raised doubts about the standard ofsafety at the airport.It all goes back to the time when politicians, civil servants andcontractors colluded to fill in the land at Suvarnabhumi in a suk aophao kin ('I'll eat it regardless of whether it's cooked or burnt')way. Suvarnabhumi was originally swampland with a high incidence offloods. Efforts to fill in the land began during the government ofGeneral Chavalit Yongchaiyudh and continued through to the governmentof Chuan Leekpai.Engineers and technicians will have to investigate whether the land atSuvarnabhumi was filled adequately enough to support the taxiway andrunway. The authorities, at one time, used to allow some water into theland to alleviate flooding in nearby areas, possibly undermining thefoundation of the taxiway and runway. So, now we have the cracks in ataxiway and runway as a result of this substandard practice.We happened to have dishonest politicians, civil servants andcontractors responsible for this, who went about their jobs in a mannerthat was suk ao phao kin. Suk ao phao kin means to do things sloppilyor recklessly. This suk ao phao kin behaviour is another prominent Thaitrait.The roof of the terminal also leaks. You might substitute suk ao phaokin when referring to this approach to construction and call it loop napa jamook ('I just need to stroke my face and patch up the nose then Ican get away with it').Don't forget to open up your umbrella once you are inside the terminal- it might rain!During the six years of Thaksin Shinawatra's reign, construction of theairport terminal and other facilities got off the ground and it waseventually completed. This gave politicians and civil servants a goodchance to revise the design and call in new contracts to facilitatebribes.The contractors had to pay bia bai rai thang ('I have to pay moneyunder the table all the way'). With the cost of the bia bai rai thang,the contractors had to compromise on the quality of the jobs they werehired to do.While the Thaksin government was in power, politicians adopted a namkhuen hai reep tak ('I must fetch the water while the tide is high')approach. It was time for the opportunists to make money without fearof the consequences. They wanted to open Suvarnabhumi as quickly aspossible because only then they could walk away with lucrative dealsfrom the contractors. Now that Thaksin has gone, all the dirty tricksthat occurred while the airport was built have become evident. Thesaying nam lot tor phut ('when the tide goes down, all the stumps showup') accurately captures this. The stench of corruption hovers over theprocurement of the CTX luggage scanners and the underground power-linesystem. There are not enough toilets for passengers, as toilet bowlshad to make way for shops.Shortly after the coup, the military leaders asked the airportauthorities if they were ready to open Suvarnabhumi or not. If thingswere not ready, they could delay the opening further. The authoritiesassured everybody that the airport was 100 per cent ready to open.This haste to open Suvarnabhumi was an act of phak chi roi na ('toppingmy face with coriander just to get a way with it'). In July, two monthsbefore he was ousted, Thaksin had proudly launched a soft opening ofthe airport by flying from Don Muang to Suvarnabhumi. He wanted the newairport to become a hallmark of his government's success.As a result, we have an airport that is beautiful from the outside, butinside it is hollow. This is equivalent to khang nok sook sai khangnaipen kluang ('I look beautiful from the outside, but don't ever kissme!') It's hard to believe how badly things have turned out atSuvarnabhumi. Only the old proverbs can say it all.Thanong KhanthongThe Nation

[Seaman Staines]

SVB Update

The legacy and liability of greed


With Suvarnabhumi quickly proving itself a shining monument to greed, the prospect of reopening Don Muang is one of the most promising developments in post-coup Thailand
By PHILIP J CUNNINGHAM
The news that Don Muang Airport will be back in use soon is a very promising development for the country, for it not only alleviates a transportation bottleneck created by the inadequacies of the new airport, but also stands as a symbolic rejection of the megaproject crony-capitalism that characterised the Thaksin era.


The appointment of fabled Thaksin critic Chirmsak Pinthong to the board of directors of the Airports of Thailand Plc (AoT) is also an encouraging sign that the controversial Suvarnabhumi Airport, which bears the heavy imprint of the deposed premier, will find its level _ not as a money-making scheme or an overblown gateway to Thailand, but as a useful regional airport.
Initially eyed for domestic flights only, the revival of Don Muang will make domestic air travel convenient again and probably less costly. If nothing else, it gives the air traveller the option to fly from a well-established transportation hub rather than forcing everyone to traipse out to remote airport built on an ancient swamp.


Perhaps international flights could be resumed at Don Muang as well; many cities with populations considerably smaller than Bangkok boast two or three airports. While multiple airports can lead to some confusion for first-time travellers to London, Paris or New York, the system works well overall and is a boon to the discriminating traveller.


Visitors to New York, for example, can opt to arrive at La Guardia, which is convenient to Manhattan and Queens, or the JFK, which is convenient to Brooklyn, Queens and Long Island. And then there's the nearby Newark airport servicing both Manhattan and New Jersey. JFK is primarily international and La Guardia is primarily domestic, but absolute segregation of domestic and international flights is hardly necessary.
For example, Suvarnabhumi could bear the brunt of tourist arrivals, with connecting flights to Phuket and tourist-oriented destinations, while Don Muang could function more as a businessman's airport, with its convenient access to downtown, the train and domestic flights.The details can be debated, but the point is that Thailand is not well-served by granting a monopoly to Suvarnabhumi Airport, a project that came to fruition under capitalism with Thaksinomic characteristics. Suvarnabhumi, as currently configured, offers up the deposed premier's vision of what an airport should be; first of all there was lots of money to be made in the making of it, secondly there are monopolistic shops and limo services to rake in more money and then there are the frilly VIP services geared to the well-heeled traveller.


In short, it is an infrastructure built and maintained by the rich, prejudiced in favour of rich travellers. It is a socially-engineered contained environment, a money trap, cluttered duty-free shops and all, a bottleneck through which all Bangkok air travellers must pass.


Although Suvarnabhumi Airport is plagued by cracked runways and shows signs of uneven settling, it is here to stay in the short and mid-term and must be utilised, if only as an overflow airport for the expanding tourist tide that was putting strain on the funky but functional Don Muang Airport.
The new airport cannot be abandoned but it need not be the country's showcase either, it's best seen as just another airport, a not entirely unattractive one that may prove especially popular for visitors whose main aim is to hit the beaches without going through Bangkok.


Downgrading Suvarnabhumi to just another airport makes sense logistically, it also has symbolic value. To force every air traveller to pass through a bottleneck that became in essence a get-rich-quick scheme for the discredited Thaksin government and its big business cronies, is unfair.
The new airport, as it was diced up and distributed among Thaksin crony-investors, is a shining monument to greed. Known for its crooked deals and cracked runways, overpriced luggage scanners and overpriced food, drink and duty-free, the new airport is but one of many megaprojects of the sort where the smart money was made well in advance of completion by politically-connected middlemen and brokers.


Fees pocketed for the privilege of "taking meetings" and public funds wasted on overpriced purchases will probably never be recovered, but wrongdoing should be thoroughly investigated.


Dispensing political favours and rampant commercial greed, while ugly, is not entirely beyond understanding. What is unforgivable _ if evidence of the sort suggested by the problem of runway cracks should prove to be firmly documentable _ is the implicit risk to safety that results from such corruption.


The sight of jet-lagged travelers laden with luggage limping down the cavernous yet oddly cramped corridors of the new airport, winding past dripping ceilings, stained floors, poorly ventilated restrooms and broken lights, suggests that the unhealthy vapours of the plot once formerly known as Cobra Swamp have not entirely dissipated. Short-cuts in construction quality are evident, though there are no short-cuts from landing gate to the distant taxi stand, and there are no mass transit alternatives to the car-clogged roads into town.


Inadequate toilet facilities make for lousy first impressions and dubious parting memories from a nation's gateway airport, but cracks on the runways bespeak actual physical peril. The news about jets forced to circle over Suvarnabhumi repeatedly, and even in some cases to make unscheduled landings at U-tapao airstrip in Sattahip while emergency repairs are conducted on cracked runways, illustrates how carelessness in the contracting and construction stage of a megaproject can precipitate inconvenience and worse, further down the road.


A well-to-do European traveller remarked that the new airport's VIP services, which include being greeted at the gate, getting whisked through customs and having one's luggage be taken out to a waiting limo, makes for a smooth first impression, but how many regular travellers can afford such a luxury? Only a small percentage of travellers could take advantage of such perks without the sytsem breaking down. Staying at the Oriental Hotel also makes for a nice impression, but you pay for it dearly and it cannot in any case accommodate large numbers of people.


In the meantime, the average traveller, who pays just as much of the inflated airport tax as the thick-walleted crowd, will find no convenient public transportation upon exiting baggage claim but instead a host of lesser alternatives which range from paying 50 extra baht for the privilege of waiting for an ordinary taxi while huddled on a crowded curb in a poorly-ventilated, sunless car park, or lugging personal effects up and down escalators and elevators to try and find a free-ranging taxi at the open-air departure level, or making cumbersome connections to a bus that leads to another bus.


Taking care of the airport and other unwieldly white elephants left over by the previous administration poses a challenge to the current prime minister, who is faced with the task of mopping up the mess left by Thaksin Shinawatra even while the exiled prime minister and his supporters beat the drums for a comeback. Mr Thaksin, a wily politician, continues to make his presence felt in manifold ways. He has hired pricey Washington DC public relations flacks to enhance his aggressive media strategy outside of Thailand. Inside the country he retains, through links of money and loyalty, supporters in high places in business and the bureaucracy, and now, with the airport, a physical infrastructure that bears his vision.


Architects understand the dynamic that even as we shape our buildings, our buildings also shape us. Mr Thaksin's tentacles of power will continue to haunt the new government if it lets the Thaksin legacy, be it the new airport or mega-malls or the bureaucracy, shape the new Thailand, instead of redefining that legacy.


Philip J Cunningham is a free-lance writer and political commentator.

Source: http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/30Jan2007_news19.php


I published the article in it's entirety, as urls can change with the BP.

[Navy_Adversary]

I believe that the Bangkok Post are reporting that the repairs to the cracks etc will be put on hold until February 5th when tests have taken place to see what exactly is causing the problems.
I am due to arrive Friday afternoon, will report any problems.

[Sunray Minor]

Sounds like an overly negative write up to me.

Facilities at Don Muang were next to none, the commute little different from the one to Suvarnabhumi and the airport itself an utterly miserable experience for a country such as Thailand.

Suvarnabhumi is flawed certainly, and in some areas at the most fundamental level. The airport as a whole, from a passengers experience however is one big step up on Don Muang. Not to mention the BTS clearly being built there - something Don Muang is clearly not going to get.

A victim of the worst excesses of capitalism, it most clearly is, but I know where I would certainly arrive and depart from - baggage delays included.

[llondel]

As a matter of interest, what implications are there for an airport not having ICAO certification? Obviously it means that it's not up to standard, but is there an insurance liability or other unpleasant side-effect for an airline operating flights there? What happens if an incoming plane hits a new pothole at speed when landing and does something interesting to the gear? Or is it a case that nothing will happen until such an event occurs?

After all, Bristol started losing trade with a dodgy runway, would all the major airlines actually refuse to operate to BKK?