Weather, BAA, LHR, Xmas, BBC, Fog, BA, etc. Rants (merged)

[Piltdown Man]

But will T5 really solve Heathrows problems? It will just be a place for pax to wait whilst the approach, runways and aprons are full to capacity. For too long LHR has been baled out by the incredible effort by ATC and it's Ops guys (and girls). When seasonal weather causes LVP's to be put in place the true capacity of the place becomes very apparent. I'm glad my livelihood doesn't depend on the bean counters at BAA!

PM.

[spinnaker]

Originally Posted by ABX

I have always thought that departures were delayed by fog because of the risk that you might need to return to the fog bound airport you just departed for some reason (EFATO for example).

No. You have to have a Take Off Alternate.

[att]

The golden age of flying has long since departed the terminal.
I enjoyed whilst it lasted, it was fun.
The only single reason I will not fly any longer is the attitude of the Western population.
The prospect of going to an Airport in this country(UK) leaves me cold, as does the American situation.
The travelling public of the UK now see the experience as something else to whinge, moan about, whilst at the same time practising their territorial rights

The US are more paranoid than ever and it is only a question of time when mob rule takes over in an airport near you.

The situation in the UK does not suprise me one iota, we have had 10 years of being fed and operating on bulls*it from the top (Bliar)
This has permeated every sector of industry and society and what we are seeing now are the results of a Country that has no substance or base to which it can operate from. Sad really that a once great Country is now only a tracing paper image of it`s former self.

RIP UK.

[cwatters]

Originally Posted by Georgeablelovehowindia

cwatters: I speak for all airline staff when I say that they'll be upset about having to send flights with some seats empty. However, given the inordinate length of the check-in queues, plus the current security arrangements, just getting passengers to the gates is equivalent to working a miracle.

I agree it's difficult and I'm sure staff on the ground have worked exceptionally hard (eg it's not your fault). If I wanted to play devils advocate I would point out that an aeroplane can only hold so many people so in theory there is a maximium length to a check-in queue....and since traffic flows were reduced there were less people who actually needed to check in. It's managing the rest of the people that needs improving.

Another letter in the papers also made the point... I'll paraphrase... "They are quick enough to call me when they want to bump me off an over booked flight... Why can't they call me to tell the flight is cancelled?"

[fireflybob]

This might sound a bit simplistic but surely the answer is do NOT fly into or from LHR!

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

The 'Tented Village'. Note 'Security' at the entrance.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c6...a/lhr46pax.jpg

and the 'Operations Block'. The bus is a British Airways one.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c6...a/lhr46ops.jpg

[Shagtastic]

Wasn't surprised to see Natasha ('Doh..' meaningful glance downwards) Kapinsky standing next to a fogged out LHR asking the General Manager of NATS why he had chosen to cancel all flights..

Ah, the BBC.

Shags

[Iceman49]

The problem is numbers…the population is now increasing at an exponential rate. The NIMBYS (not in my backyard crowd), do not want any expansion of the airports because of noise and traffic, but they want the convenience of a close travel center. That coupled with ridiculously low airfares, makes for a disastrous recipe. Just filling aircraft with low fares causes abnormally low yields with nothing left over for improvements to the basic infrastructure. Itis not going to get better as long as its cheaper to fly than to drive.

[jayceehi]

The BBC??

Should we start a new thread on CNN?
Cut from the same cloth I figure......
Merry Christmas to all
jaycee

[Orvil]

M.MOUSE.
Why am I deluded? SRB has more or less implied that he wanted to join up his train service and airline. He said this when the Stern Report came out in October. He said that short-haul was more polluting and that it would be more environmentally friendly/efficient for people to use trains. He used London to Manchester as an example.
He has already "joined up" is media empire (NTL/Virgin mobile/Digital TV) which is now going to be called Virgin Media. Why should Transport be any different?
Getoutofmy
May be I wasn't clear enough. It could be a group of destinations, I didn't mean to imply that every destination would have a individual marque. It still would be simpler to put people in destinations ie. France/Germany than the mess at present with all people mixed up.
The mobile phone system wouldn't crash as it would be a general broadcast from a specific cell/transmitter at LHR. An example of this is the RAC/AA traffic watch you can use when travelling. The technology is very specific now. So if you had 120 pax going to Frankfurt stuck at LHR it would only broadcast at the LHR cell for those specific pax. It's the only good thing about GPRS.
Even if it wasn't possible why don't BAA have those mobile message signs that you see at road works? They portable and could be put any where but then again that would inform people and prevent people from shopping!

Ho Ho
Orvil

[Goldstone]

The blame rests with BAA who fill up the terminal buildings with shops leaving no room for passenger holding areas when delays are being experienced.

Someone should point out to them that the purpose of airport terminals is to process passengers .... if people want to shop they can go to shopping malls or the high street.

[PAXboy]

occasional

The part played by BAA and its predecessors in this is probably no worse than idleness, but when they start claiming that new runways are needed it is appropriate to consider why they have apparently failed to examine more sensible alternatives.

I do not think that it is just BAA's fault. When they were privatised - what responsibility was placed upon them for:

• Maintaing spare capacity for emergencies?
• Providing alternative destination departure points in the regions?
• Ensuring that any growth in consumer demand was met in a measured way?
• Keeping a balance of traffic and the capacity of the area surrounding their airports?
• ???

The answer is, I think, None. They were privatised in 1987 for the usual reasons: To make a short term financial gain for the govt of the day and to release future politicians from being asked awkward questions when things went wrong.

Unless I much mistake, this is another triumph of Margaret Thatcher's era that has come home to roost.

[harpic]

Goldstone wrote -

The blame rests with BAA who fill up the terminal buildings with shops leaving no room for passenger holding areas when delays are being experienced.

Hear Hear never a truer word. I get really p****d off having to walk through acres (or should that be hectars) of retail space before reaching the gate. Airports are part of the transport infrastructure not a marketing opportunity.

[Rollingthunder]

And it's not even duty-free. I buy mine on-board and save 30-40% over prices at LHR.

[ABX]

Hi spinnaker

Thanks for your reply.

ABX is a regional airport with the nearest alternate over 75km away, would fog make a difference to your answer given that there is no alternate close by?

Cheers mate & merry Christmas.

ABX

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

ABX: 75km! On the 737 and 757 in my UK airline our takeoff alternate had to be within 250nm. and on the DC-10 it was 400nm.

Merry Christmas to you too. I suppose the celebrations are well and truly underway Dununda, although Mrs G's Auntie Pat says it's not such a nice day in Sydney.

[ABX]

Hi George

Yep, we're right into it here, SYD and ABX are pretty cold - well, in perspective, 19 degrees C and windy is cold for our typical summer - but we wouldn't let a little thing like the wx hold us back from a celebration now would we?

Regarding my posts on alternates, I guess 75km is pretty close in a jet, I am more used to thinking in terms of a 172.

Cheers,

ABX

[Semaphore Sam]

Of course. Talk about captive audiences! If they weren't able to get huge (30-40%) overrides on prices, would these retailers even bother? They have an audience with time on its hands (and very little else to do, inasmuch as few people nowadays read for recreation). So, it's all to the 'good' (for retailers and Authorities) to have huge delays, and check-ins 3-4 hrs ahead of blockout times. Same in the States...Dallas, SF, Kennedy are huge marketing bonanzas for the retailers who control the 'waiting' areas. No place to sit, only to wander, wander through the wonderland of.....the forced shopping mall! So...who expects any change? Sam

[alexban]

I wonder how will be if the 380 ever starts flying into LHR,making it a more congested 'hub',if possible...