PLYMOUTH -2
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: way out there
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Groundhog - You are not that keen on Plymouth having a future or you would be flying with Airsouthwest. Even though they are based in Exeter, serving Cornwall is small change for Flymaybe. They will up sticks when there is more fruit to pick elsewhere.
Leaving the only true southwest airline.
Leaving the only true southwest airline.
I regard Skybus as my local airline and would love to see them expanding. You are quite right I am not sufficiently keen on Plymouth's future to abandon Flybe if they are quicker, cheaper, offer a better baggage policy and more convenient than ASW. At present on NQY/LGW they are generally all of those things.
Guest
Posts: n/a
GROUNDHOG - your argument holds no water. As you may be aware, the 'inconvenience' of flying through Plymouth is only from LGW to NQY on 3 flights, the SZ103/105 and 110. SZ111 is direct to NQY. On the 103 you arrive into NQY 40mins later, on the 105 it's 30mins and on 111 it's 5 minutes and don't forget the 110 which arrives NQY at 1800, compared with FLYBE's 'up to 3 ' flights a day. NQY to LGW with Air Southwest is direct. Also factor in the services to LCY twice daily and you have all the flexibility you need.
As far as fares, I've just picked a random day 1st March and Flybe NQY-LGW flight at 0720 comes to £60.98 incl charges and Air Southwest at 07.20 is a total of £50.00 incl charges.
You also forget - Flybe rely on pax from NQY to LGW to fill a 78 seater. WOW rely on pax from PLH and NQY to fill a 50 seater. If 15-20 or so people travel out of Plymouth, the rest out of NQY are pure profit.
I think someone needs to re-think.
As far as fares, I've just picked a random day 1st March and Flybe NQY-LGW flight at 0720 comes to £60.98 incl charges and Air Southwest at 07.20 is a total of £50.00 incl charges.
You also forget - Flybe rely on pax from NQY to LGW to fill a 78 seater. WOW rely on pax from PLH and NQY to fill a 50 seater. If 15-20 or so people travel out of Plymouth, the rest out of NQY are pure profit.
I think someone needs to re-think.
Dash-7 Lover
Please read my post 86 again and you will see the words "if" and "generally". When ASW do offer a better deal than Flybe I will fly with them. I would regard adding 40 minutes to a 65 minute flight plus an extra landing as being pretty inconvenient though. For this next trip Flybe was quite a lot cheaper and more convenient as I am carrying a deal of excess baggage so that is why I am flying with them - simples!
The price you quote includes 20kgs of baggage, no baggage Flybe is cheaper and with 40kgs ( which I sometimes carry across the Atlantic) the difference is insignificant. I am sure LCY/PLH is great for some but no use to me.
I have a little experience in the economics of operating aircraft so read again my post 84 please. You must know ALL the facts before you can make assumptions on profitability.
Meanwhile back to Plymouth Airport!
Please read my post 86 again and you will see the words "if" and "generally". When ASW do offer a better deal than Flybe I will fly with them. I would regard adding 40 minutes to a 65 minute flight plus an extra landing as being pretty inconvenient though. For this next trip Flybe was quite a lot cheaper and more convenient as I am carrying a deal of excess baggage so that is why I am flying with them - simples!
The price you quote includes 20kgs of baggage, no baggage Flybe is cheaper and with 40kgs ( which I sometimes carry across the Atlantic) the difference is insignificant. I am sure LCY/PLH is great for some but no use to me.
I have a little experience in the economics of operating aircraft so read again my post 84 please. You must know ALL the facts before you can make assumptions on profitability.
Meanwhile back to Plymouth Airport!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Wales
Posts: 1,253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Forgive me if im wrong but if your operating X-Y via Z then surely you have to pay 2 lots of landing & take-off fee's meaning that costs are signifcantly higher.
I haven't looked at the price model of both SZ & BE but if it is similar then could it be possibly that BE would only need 50% load and SZ may require 90% load to make a proffit.
Don't foget it's not bums on seats that are making the money but the amount they paid for them seats and how much they spend on board against cost of operation.
I haven't looked at the price model of both SZ & BE but if it is similar then could it be possibly that BE would only need 50% load and SZ may require 90% load to make a proffit.
Don't foget it's not bums on seats that are making the money but the amount they paid for them seats and how much they spend on board against cost of operation.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: North East
Age: 37
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Forgive me if im wrong but if your operating X-Y via Z then surely you have to pay 2 lots of landing & take-off fee's meaning that costs are signifcantly higher.
Again I may be wrong...
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Wales
Posts: 1,253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You are probably correct but the extra burn/cost of fuel for Take-Off and Approach where less fuel is used during the cruise.
Not knowing the set-up of both airport but ATC costs for appraoches/landing. Handling costs etc can also add up.
Plus are the leading fares cheaper on BE or SZ? BE also has a larger brand and can allow connection for flights at various airports.
If SZ are paying token costs then i would imagine that they would encourage full paying airlines to use the airfield in order to make the costs up for SZ pauing cut rates (if they are).
Not knowing the set-up of both airport but ATC costs for appraoches/landing. Handling costs etc can also add up.
Plus are the leading fares cheaper on BE or SZ? BE also has a larger brand and can allow connection for flights at various airports.
If SZ are paying token costs then i would imagine that they would encourage full paying airlines to use the airfield in order to make the costs up for SZ pauing cut rates (if they are).
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Plymouth
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have been told that an Airbus A319 can land on a 1200M runway which all my airport need to do is extend it by under 100m which i dont think is going to happen. It is stupid that they are cutting half the airport off to make way for houses.
Dale
Dale
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: way out there
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dale - unfortunatley its not that simple.If it was only a case of putting a 100m on the runaway they would of done it. They have to take into account runway end safety areas and protected slopes with regards to buildings etc near the airport.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Plymouth
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know but i was just saying. Plymouth city airport need to expand to compete with exeter and newquay airports. If we don't, Plymouth airport could go down. We need more airlines but sutton harbour are not letting any into the airport.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
By selling off the land for housing they're able to generate a large amount of funding for development of the rest of the airport facilities and reduce costs in the maintenance of those that were pretty much redundant, such as Runway 06/24.
Runway extension to 13/31 is now a possibility with the deal done on the land where the old factory stood by the threshold of 31. They've also recently installed brand new lighting systems and have many other plans on the horizon.
Runway extension to 13/31 is now a possibility with the deal done on the land where the old factory stood by the threshold of 31. They've also recently installed brand new lighting systems and have many other plans on the horizon.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Plymouth
Posts: 387
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
By selling off the land for housing they're able to generate a large amount of funding for development of the rest of the airport facilities and reduce costs in the maintenance of those that were pretty much redundant, such as Runway 06/24.
Runway extension to 13/31 is now a possibility with the deal done on the land where the old factory stood by the threshold of 31. They've also recently installed brand new lighting systems and have many other plans on the horizon.
Runway extension to 13/31 is now a possibility with the deal done on the land where the old factory stood by the threshold of 31. They've also recently installed brand new lighting systems and have many other plans on the horizon.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: way out there
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Plymouth city airport in some ways does not compete against Exeter and Newquay airports, in a way it competes against the railway network really.(obviously it does on the channel islands and irish routes.)
It does not have the land to expand mainly due to the short sighted Plymouth city council over the years ,selling parcels off every now and then, but local government only ever thinks up to 4-5 years. .
Its in the wrong place on hill and is too weather dependent.
The only real option to give it a long term future was the plan to move it to the sherford valley, which was one of the suggestions to the governments white paper on aviation 4-5 years ago. Unfortunatley it was looked on by people who could not see any futher than 5 -10 years ahead when the purpose of the white paper was looking towards the aviation needs for 30 years.
It does not have the land to expand mainly due to the short sighted Plymouth city council over the years ,selling parcels off every now and then, but local government only ever thinks up to 4-5 years. .
Its in the wrong place on hill and is too weather dependent.
The only real option to give it a long term future was the plan to move it to the sherford valley, which was one of the suggestions to the governments white paper on aviation 4-5 years ago. Unfortunatley it was looked on by people who could not see any futher than 5 -10 years ahead when the purpose of the white paper was looking towards the aviation needs for 30 years.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: way out there
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Plymouthair - don't hold your breath, those plans were probably written up a few years ago in a different economic climate. It would not surprise me if some of the development they talked about in the herald is delayed or scaled down and you would not blame them in doing so whilst we still have a uncertain economic future. Aviation his still suffering and i think there will still be a couple of airlines that go to the wall this year, its all about survival right now.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Plymouth
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok, So apart from the land for the factory now sold, Is there any news on the runway extension? I know that the max they can extend it to at the moment is 1,319m because the council are moaning about getting 150M on each side of the centre line, Any news for that? I think we do need to get the 150m Each side because then it can be extended to just over 1,600M because then we can get alot bigger aircraft such as EMB-190 and maybe even A318 because our runway can be extended to be bigger than London City. I have been told that another plan for the future is to try and get the A319 at Plymouth, Anyone heard this aswell?
Dale
Dale
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rogervisual that plan for the Sherford Valley also relied on both Plymouth and Exeter being closed and sold to help finance the building of the new International Airport which was very quickly thrown out by Devon County Council and they subsiquently went on to sell Exeter to Balfour Beaty