BRISTOL - 3
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I suppose it all depends on preference, I'm not a business traveller so I wouldnt really know much about the life style.
A good carrier to try and get in to BRS would be Swiss who have a huge hub at ZRH, that coupled with LH serving FRA/DUS would surely give quite a few more options to you guys.
I just think someone like FR would be good for challengeing on the GLA/EDI/CDG routes, either that or as mentioned earlier Air Southwest.
A good carrier to try and get in to BRS would be Swiss who have a huge hub at ZRH, that coupled with LH serving FRA/DUS would surely give quite a few more options to you guys.
I just think someone like FR would be good for challengeing on the GLA/EDI/CDG routes, either that or as mentioned earlier Air Southwest.
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No airbridges down here my friend, what do you think BRS is? an international airport or something? There are some cracking new buses though 
Hurrah, at least were keeping the BA - TFS route, according to BIA website the airport is in discussions with a number of airlines to replace the dropped routes, I guess this is just the usual spiel in the circumstances.
Hurrah, at least were keeping the BA - TFS route, according to BIA website the airport is in discussions with a number of airlines to replace the dropped routes, I guess this is just the usual spiel in the circumstances.
Last edited by WATABENCH; 7th Mar 2007 at 05:42.
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Flybe to Jersey
Very disapointing to hear of the number of staff to be put down over the Flybe BAcon takeover, some of us do know what is is like but the boys down the road a Exter dont care about lively hoods other than them selves.
My heart goes out to all of those who have lost there jobs as I do know find a job in something you like doing are few and far between.
With Flybe only having a Jersey route operating out of BRS how long will they keep that going after al the agrovation they have sturred up there must be carriers out there to take it on if they were to drop it or are the loads perfoming well?
Air Southwest do have the licence to operate Bristol-Jersey although most of the time it is via plymouth other than the summer when a direct flight operates on a saturday.
With a number of Dash 8 300 comming on the market or have they all been ear marked else where.
I would like to think some of the BAcon whould move to Air Southwest as some form of security as the Dash 8 300 does fit in to there operation after all.
There would be other carriers other the Air Southwest that would look at taking the route on if Flybe did pull the plug.
All the best to the staff made redundent.
My heart goes out to all of those who have lost there jobs as I do know find a job in something you like doing are few and far between.
With Flybe only having a Jersey route operating out of BRS how long will they keep that going after al the agrovation they have sturred up there must be carriers out there to take it on if they were to drop it or are the loads perfoming well?
Air Southwest do have the licence to operate Bristol-Jersey although most of the time it is via plymouth other than the summer when a direct flight operates on a saturday.
With a number of Dash 8 300 comming on the market or have they all been ear marked else where.
I would like to think some of the BAcon whould move to Air Southwest as some form of security as the Dash 8 300 does fit in to there operation after all.
There would be other carriers other the Air Southwest that would look at taking the route on if Flybe did pull the plug.
All the best to the staff made redundent.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Agree with a1234: can't see Ryanair jumping in to fly BRS to Hahn. A few years ago I used to commute via the Hahn to Bournemouth link. It was a drag with a couple of hours' drive both ends, but in the summer it was ok and the times suited me. But as the planes were often virtually empty (no need for reserved seating shall we say!) they scrapped the route.
On balance I think I would also rather fly in to LHR and drive than have to endure a couple of hours to Hahn and then do another drive at the other end. And you can certainly forget connecting to FRA, that's not what Hahn is for...
If WOW had a bit of ambition then there are options for it to extend outwards from BRS, but it's probably extending their model a bit too much, so I wouldn't bank on them stepping in.
My guess if that once again the door will be closed for a while to the international business/regular traveller in the southwest, and BRS will have gone two steps back. Personally I haven't looked into connecting to PLH via MAN, but it's scraping the bottom of the barrel given that I have to hire a car at destination anyway.
One thing is certain though, these people don't run charities: if it ain't profitable for them then they will cut the route. It is wrong to think they are there to serve us, they're not council-subsidised bus companies.
On balance I think I would also rather fly in to LHR and drive than have to endure a couple of hours to Hahn and then do another drive at the other end. And you can certainly forget connecting to FRA, that's not what Hahn is for...
If WOW had a bit of ambition then there are options for it to extend outwards from BRS, but it's probably extending their model a bit too much, so I wouldn't bank on them stepping in.
My guess if that once again the door will be closed for a while to the international business/regular traveller in the southwest, and BRS will have gone two steps back. Personally I haven't looked into connecting to PLH via MAN, but it's scraping the bottom of the barrel given that I have to hire a car at destination anyway.
One thing is certain though, these people don't run charities: if it ain't profitable for them then they will cut the route. It is wrong to think they are there to serve us, they're not council-subsidised bus companies.
StandupfortheUlstermen
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Someone in the know told me yesterday that all the BACon routes are to be filled, some by lo cost and some (German/Swiss routes) buy full service carriers. It will happen, the announcements will follow shortly. Panic ye not.
The loss of BACon, while sad, will not be felt too badly by the punters and the fact that Flybe are almost gone is a good thing. They have never been the same since Uncle Jack popped his clogs and the airline (laughably they call themselves Europe's largest regional airline, whatever that is supposed to imply) has never liked competition or even the threat of it. I remember them dropping routes from Belfast City if Easyjet announced there would be a similar route from Aldergrove, months before Easy started their routes up! Bristol certainly doesn't need an airline like that, the yellow bellied *******!
The loss of BACon, while sad, will not be felt too badly by the punters and the fact that Flybe are almost gone is a good thing. They have never been the same since Uncle Jack popped his clogs and the airline (laughably they call themselves Europe's largest regional airline, whatever that is supposed to imply) has never liked competition or even the threat of it. I remember them dropping routes from Belfast City if Easyjet announced there would be a similar route from Aldergrove, months before Easy started their routes up! Bristol certainly doesn't need an airline like that, the yellow bellied *******!
Join Date: May 2005
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StandardNoise - I'll be pleased if that's the outcome. Maybe one step back, two steps forward?
Marco - agreed that services from BRS must demonstrate profit, but the airport has a role in helping that happen. If an operator sets up a route on a once-a-day basis, it deters other operators investing in a more frequent service. I felt that BACons FRA/MUC/DUS services were pretty useless with no traffic opportunity other than leisure visitors (to FRA? to DUS? Errrrr..). At least the BHX/MAN to Germany routes can also carry transit passengers, which is probably why they fill up A319/A320s. If the airport can deliver a route development strategy beyond a headline direct destination count, then it's probably a stronger proposition in the long term.
Watabench - that's a very good thought about LX to ZRH. I've used them a number of times this year out of LCY (to avoid the hell of LHR) through ZRH and onto GVA and BCN, and it's been very comfortable. (And very good value, even in C). I'm booked to do a flight to BOM with them in June. If LX can integrate BRS-ZRH into their onward connections, the only place that will suffer noticeably will be northern German destinations like DUS because of increased transit times.
Ultimately, economics will prepare a case for a new operator. I'm prepared to pay a Ł100 premium to fly from BRS to my destination over flying from LHR. ("Never give your hand away when negotiating"). But in terms of my hassle saved and time saved, it's worth it. I put quite a high value on Touch Down->Front Door in less than 30 minutes.
Marco - agreed that services from BRS must demonstrate profit, but the airport has a role in helping that happen. If an operator sets up a route on a once-a-day basis, it deters other operators investing in a more frequent service. I felt that BACons FRA/MUC/DUS services were pretty useless with no traffic opportunity other than leisure visitors (to FRA? to DUS? Errrrr..). At least the BHX/MAN to Germany routes can also carry transit passengers, which is probably why they fill up A319/A320s. If the airport can deliver a route development strategy beyond a headline direct destination count, then it's probably a stronger proposition in the long term.
Watabench - that's a very good thought about LX to ZRH. I've used them a number of times this year out of LCY (to avoid the hell of LHR) through ZRH and onto GVA and BCN, and it's been very comfortable. (And very good value, even in C). I'm booked to do a flight to BOM with them in June. If LX can integrate BRS-ZRH into their onward connections, the only place that will suffer noticeably will be northern German destinations like DUS because of increased transit times.
Ultimately, economics will prepare a case for a new operator. I'm prepared to pay a Ł100 premium to fly from BRS to my destination over flying from LHR. ("Never give your hand away when negotiating"). But in terms of my hassle saved and time saved, it's worth it. I put quite a high value on Touch Down->Front Door in less than 30 minutes.
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Hell, BT, I'm prepared to pay over the odds if I can get home from the airport in under 2 hours 
. I work with Greeks who can get home quicker than I can.
Don't know enough about the airport's role in route development, so bow to you on that one.
However, would not agree at all on the pax profile on BRS-FRA, at least on Thurs/Fri and Mon (maybe there's the rub). The planes were always pretty full, even in the old slots. Most seemed to be regular commuters like myself, often a lot of IT guys servicing the banks, some financial suits, and a handful of leisure travellers who had clearly been transiting via FRA.
Would have been good to have had more than one dep per day but it never really surprised me. Thankful for small mercies..
Hope the rumours are true that the slots will be taken up by a reputable operator...
. I work with Greeks who can get home quicker than I can.Don't know enough about the airport's role in route development, so bow to you on that one.
However, would not agree at all on the pax profile on BRS-FRA, at least on Thurs/Fri and Mon (maybe there's the rub). The planes were always pretty full, even in the old slots. Most seemed to be regular commuters like myself, often a lot of IT guys servicing the banks, some financial suits, and a handful of leisure travellers who had clearly been transiting via FRA.
Would have been good to have had more than one dep per day but it never really surprised me. Thankful for small mercies..
Hope the rumours are true that the slots will be taken up by a reputable operator...
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> slots will be taken up by a reputable operator
Unfortunately, the slots are owned by Flybe, not Bristol Airport. A new operator will have to bring their own FRA / MUC slots. Flybe will use the existing ones for SOU &/or EXT.
Unfortunately, the slots are owned by Flybe, not Bristol Airport. A new operator will have to bring their own FRA / MUC slots. Flybe will use the existing ones for SOU &/or EXT.
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Chaps:
Bloomberg had this yesterday, quoting a Handelsblatt story (which is only available to subscribers):
It would seem to me that Bristol (and to a lesser extent Birmingham) present a particularly interesting opportunity for EI just now.
Bloomberg had this yesterday, quoting a Handelsblatt story (which is only available to subscribers):
Aer Lingus to Expand in U.K., Corneille Tells Handelsblatt
2007-03-06 12:06 (New York)
By Brian Parkin
March 6 (Bloomberg) -- Aer Lingus Group Plc, Ireland's
second-largest airline, will expand its U.K. business, opening
its first airport center outside Ireland to compete with
airlines like BMI for customers, management board member Enda
Corneille told German newspaper Handelsblatt.
Dublin-based Aer Lingus, which last year rebuffed a
takeover bid by no-frills airline Ryanair, may open a new base
in Belfast, Glasgow, Bristol or Birmingham, Corneille said in an
interview to be published in tomorrow's edition. Further Aer
Lingus centers in the U.K. may follow, Corneille said.
Corneille, Air Lingus's commercial director, said the
airline will over five years expand its short-flight fleet by a
third to 42 aircraft and double its long-haul fleet to 14,
buying more Airbus SAS planes or switching to Boeing Co. planes.
(Handelsblatt, 03-06 release)
2007-03-06 12:06 (New York)
By Brian Parkin
March 6 (Bloomberg) -- Aer Lingus Group Plc, Ireland's
second-largest airline, will expand its U.K. business, opening
its first airport center outside Ireland to compete with
airlines like BMI for customers, management board member Enda
Corneille told German newspaper Handelsblatt.
Dublin-based Aer Lingus, which last year rebuffed a
takeover bid by no-frills airline Ryanair, may open a new base
in Belfast, Glasgow, Bristol or Birmingham, Corneille said in an
interview to be published in tomorrow's edition. Further Aer
Lingus centers in the U.K. may follow, Corneille said.
Corneille, Air Lingus's commercial director, said the
airline will over five years expand its short-flight fleet by a
third to 42 aircraft and double its long-haul fleet to 14,
buying more Airbus SAS planes or switching to Boeing Co. planes.
(Handelsblatt, 03-06 release)
Join Date: Feb 2007
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But i thought Aer Lingus were pulling the DUb route sometime this march?
So the question could be asked why expand from an airport that your pulling your one and only route from?
So the question could be asked why expand from an airport that your pulling your one and only route from?
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No chance of EI at BRS, can't see them going up against an ever stronger Easy and the rumour is that the new base will be looking to open up more of a bucket and spade outfit rather than connections to other major cities like Frankfurt, Zurich etc. And seeing as DUB is no longer bookable from March 24 I'd put my bets on GLA or BHX.
Brunel to Concorde
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I fear that, unless the Route Development team secure a full service operator to take over some of these routes, Bristol is going to slide towards being a loco airport, with all of what that entails. Maybe it's going that way already? Giving up gate space for retail, closing the frequent fliers programme, spartan/crowded gate areas (yes, I'm thinking of the Bus Gates 8A...).
I would preface what follows by saying unequivocally that it has to be compared to the situation those who have lost jobs find themselves in, and on that score is of much less importance.
I speak as a fairly regular pax of many years , albeit a leisure one these days, and have to say that standards certainly seem to be slipping in the services provided by the airport management.
In addition to those matters you have highlighted above I would add that the terminal is becoming down at heel in places, perhaps scruffy might be a better description, and at busy times (as I found again this week) it is no longer a pleasant experience.
My wife and I are still waiting for our final frequent flyer vouchers, promised to be sent out at the end of January.
I have emailed the airport more than once in recent weeks seeking information on other services but have not been afforded the courtesy of a reply. If this is the way loyal and long-standing customers are treated I begin to wonder what is going on.
The airport management says it is in discussions with several major airlines and hopes to replace the cancelled routes as soon as possible.
Well, let's hope they do but this is what one would expect an airport management to say in these circumstances.
Flybe may be taking a gamble turning its face on an important and vibrant business community (by far the largest in the whole of the government South West region and one of the most dynamic economies in the entire country) but, as a pax, I would prefer a clean break rather than some routes lingering through the summer with the uncertainty of when (not if) they would be axed.
2007 has been BRS's worst year for several decades, for all sorts of well-publicised reasons, and it won't become any better with a major battle to get the required expansion plans approved.
Perhaps the loss of the BACon pax might give the airport an opportune breathing space.
What is certain is if the pax growth had continued its inexorable upward progress the terminal would have become an intolerable customer experience at certain times of the day without an increase in size.
As for Aer Lingus (alluded to by other posters), their DUB-BRS was a single daily in early afternoon,and was always going to struggle against the multi-daily Ryanair services, especially when they fell out with CWL and increased the BRS rotations.
Aer Lingus has has a long and almost unbroken relationship with Bristol, going back to the Whitchurch days, when Dublin-Bristol became EI's first ever international route in 1936.
There may be no sentiment in business but never say never.
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What is certain is if the pax growth had continued its inexorable upward progress the terminal would have become an intolerable customer experience at certain times of the day without an increase in size.
Macquarie are hard task masters when it comes to turning a profit. I know a couple of people who work for various businesses under the Macquarie banner in different parts of the world. If there's a cost to be cut, cut it. That's not to say there's underinvestment, but certainly the objective is to spend as little as possible for most return. A lick of paint won't materially impact the number of passengers using BRS, so it probably won't get licked. A new "Claire's Accessories" unit drops cash to the bottom line within months of it being built.
As I've noted before, business passengers are not very profitable for the airport. We rarely buy anything, and we get free coffee in lounge that uses up space that could be retail. We expect top-notch service, and whisking through the terminal, but our Airport Passenger Duty is the same as a crowd of shopaholics on a weekend break to Ibiza.
There comes a point when events become self-defining. If Bristol becomes primarily a loco airport, it will become the Stanstead or Luton of the South West. That perception will grow, and diminish the likelyhood of full service airlines maintaining a service at an airport everyone thinks is a loco base. It feels like a defining moment.
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When an airport chooses to drink with the devil in this case the low service airlines expect to start see the the charter airlines leaving BRS next driven out by Easy.Then the airport will have to start charging realistic fees to the low service airlines and hey presto the transformation is complete the travelling public have got low service airlines at full service prices.Still many of us charter pilots will be glad to see the back of Bristol with its sub-standard runway and location even when its surface is in a proper state of repair.Honeymoon deals from airports to low service carriers do not advantage the passenger in the long run.Charter carriers are studying their long term futures at this airport very seriously at present.
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Dartania has a very valid point here regarding charter carriers, TOM seem very keen on creating a large base in CWL and seem to be the only airline showing intrest over there, were all aware of the rumour around that they may abandon BRS, the TCX/MYT merge probably doesnt bode all that great for BRS, the fact that they are looking at consolodating routes and getting rid of staff will probably mean a year round company ac for now, but as MYT tend to share on XL in winter and TCX share with FCA in summer they dont need to do this anymore so will prob just have 1 a320 sat year round and meaning not buying seats from other carriers, the capacity is then taken away also from FCA/XL so there may not be a need for 2 FCA 757s and 2 XL/KM ac.
FCA as a company are looking more towards longhaul so yes BRS will prob keep the 3 longhaul routes in order to prepare the south west market for 2009 and the B787 which will do longhaul direct from BRS, but the concentration on more mid-longhaul routes means a cutting down on their european bucket and spade markets(AGP/FAO/PMI/MAH/ALC) all these routes that are now swamped with LOCO's.
The only way ahead I can see for Charters if all that were to be the case, would be if TOM pulled BRS and FCA pulled CWL and they carried each others pax, were lucky that at the moment both XL and FCA have a good relationship with BRS, both seem commited to the airport so hopefully they can work out a way to hold their ground against the Orange Army.
FCA as a company are looking more towards longhaul so yes BRS will prob keep the 3 longhaul routes in order to prepare the south west market for 2009 and the B787 which will do longhaul direct from BRS, but the concentration on more mid-longhaul routes means a cutting down on their european bucket and spade markets(AGP/FAO/PMI/MAH/ALC) all these routes that are now swamped with LOCO's.
The only way ahead I can see for Charters if all that were to be the case, would be if TOM pulled BRS and FCA pulled CWL and they carried each others pax, were lucky that at the moment both XL and FCA have a good relationship with BRS, both seem commited to the airport so hopefully they can work out a way to hold their ground against the Orange Army.
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Looks like the runway/taxiway work is going to overrun by a week or so in to April now, however closing time of runway will be changed to 0030-0500 01st APR-04thAPR, 0100-0500 05thAPR-07thAPR and 0001-0400 on 08thAPR by the looks of things 
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Anybody wondering about the return of the BACON german routes should have a quick look at the Air Berlin thread, few people on there including a german member saying that BRS looks a good possibility for Air Berlin routes in the near future.
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Hmmm.. AirBerlin. Hardly what I'd call a full service carrier.
Quite a lot of their advertised routes are "Via STN" (!) - For instance, MAN-TXL is actually MAN-STN-TXL. MAN-ZRH is actually MAN-HAM-ZRH. And Bournemouth-Paderborn doesn't thrill me with excitement.
We'd still be stuck with the dead-end option too - no onward connection opportunities. It's fine to run a BRS-ZRH route, but if it's not part of a code-share/alliance arrangement, you'll only end up with the relatively small number of people who want to do BRS-ZRH. I'm convinced that was a significant factor in BACon's struggles.
I did wonder last night if maybe BRS is already struggling with non-Domestic business customers? I don't know how many business fliers use EZY out of BRS, but KL ship around 350 people a day out, and SN about the same. It's not a lot compared with the tide of EZY passengers each day.
Quite a lot of their advertised routes are "Via STN" (!) - For instance, MAN-TXL is actually MAN-STN-TXL. MAN-ZRH is actually MAN-HAM-ZRH. And Bournemouth-Paderborn doesn't thrill me with excitement.
We'd still be stuck with the dead-end option too - no onward connection opportunities. It's fine to run a BRS-ZRH route, but if it's not part of a code-share/alliance arrangement, you'll only end up with the relatively small number of people who want to do BRS-ZRH. I'm convinced that was a significant factor in BACon's struggles.
I did wonder last night if maybe BRS is already struggling with non-Domestic business customers? I don't know how many business fliers use EZY out of BRS, but KL ship around 350 people a day out, and SN about the same. It's not a lot compared with the tide of EZY passengers each day.
Brunel to Concorde
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B_T
I take your point about an airline like Air Berlin, especially if any service would be routed via Stansted (and a change of aircraft?).
BRS reckons it gets a higher proportion of business pax than many UK regional airports (see master plan).
However, Air Berlin might be better than no service at all and a foot in the door might lead to more direct routes, but how would easyJet take this? At places like LPL and EMA, where other locos have significant presences, easyJet have not expanded in the way they have at BRS, where they are King of the Heap.
Some might say that a lessening of easyJet’s dominance would be a good thing. But what if they took the ‘ump because another loco set up alongside and they scaled back the expansion of recent years, and then that other loco decided it wasn’t that committed to BRS after all?
This must be a bit of a poser for any airport management.
I note that the BRS website is now seeking views on which German routes are required by potential customers.
The 2006 annual CAA stats are now out and the BACon international business routes show the following totals:
Milan 23K
Frankfurt 21K
Munich 19K
Zurich 19K
Dusseldorf (10K - route commenced in June)
Incidentally, compare Zurich to Geneva where 125K scheduled pax were hauled - all by easyJet.
CDG saw 117K sched pax - up from 97K the previous year, and almost certainly due to easyJet coming on the route in the last two months of the year and doubling those monthly totals compared to BACon alone.
Brussels Airlines carried 63K on the BRU route, similar to 2005.
Amsterdam’s figure was 271K, shared between KLM and easyJet.
The most popular route was DUB where 362K sched pax were carried between Ryanair and Aer Lingus, with the latter almost certainly not getting its ‘fair share’.
I take your point about an airline like Air Berlin, especially if any service would be routed via Stansted (and a change of aircraft?).
BRS reckons it gets a higher proportion of business pax than many UK regional airports (see master plan).
However, Air Berlin might be better than no service at all and a foot in the door might lead to more direct routes, but how would easyJet take this? At places like LPL and EMA, where other locos have significant presences, easyJet have not expanded in the way they have at BRS, where they are King of the Heap.
Some might say that a lessening of easyJet’s dominance would be a good thing. But what if they took the ‘ump because another loco set up alongside and they scaled back the expansion of recent years, and then that other loco decided it wasn’t that committed to BRS after all?
This must be a bit of a poser for any airport management.
I note that the BRS website is now seeking views on which German routes are required by potential customers.
The 2006 annual CAA stats are now out and the BACon international business routes show the following totals:
Milan 23K
Frankfurt 21K
Munich 19K
Zurich 19K
Dusseldorf (10K - route commenced in June)
Incidentally, compare Zurich to Geneva where 125K scheduled pax were hauled - all by easyJet.
CDG saw 117K sched pax - up from 97K the previous year, and almost certainly due to easyJet coming on the route in the last two months of the year and doubling those monthly totals compared to BACon alone.
Brussels Airlines carried 63K on the BRU route, similar to 2005.
Amsterdam’s figure was 271K, shared between KLM and easyJet.
The most popular route was DUB where 362K sched pax were carried between Ryanair and Aer Lingus, with the latter almost certainly not getting its ‘fair share’.