Ryanair - 4
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It has been stated ad nauseum that Cork will never have CAT III unless new technology for the facility is created.
A CAT III approach is achieved using autoland. The autopilots flare using rad alt to measure terrain closure. This only works only:
* with terrain with close to a level gradient on approach
* with a greatly reduced crosswind limit
* a relatively flat runway not one with a hump at the 1000' point
* in the event of none of the above a 20,000' runway
With current technology a Cat III facility will never happen because it would be a complete waste of money as Cork 'fog' is frequently low cloud blowing across the runway at >20 knots. Add to that the fact that any autoland will flare at the hump and subsequently 'float' hopelessly down the short runway at 20' while losing speed at a rate matched only by the crews loss of bodily functions. Drop 40 - 60 tonnes 20' and see what you get.
It is not the fault of the IAA, DAA, CAA, GAA, or anyone else. Blame your local sleeveens who chose the site in the 50s. Cork will continue to pay for that decision.
Ryan2000
please spit it out, what are you really trying to say?
A CAT III approach is achieved using autoland. The autopilots flare using rad alt to measure terrain closure. This only works only:
* with terrain with close to a level gradient on approach
* with a greatly reduced crosswind limit
* a relatively flat runway not one with a hump at the 1000' point
* in the event of none of the above a 20,000' runway
With current technology a Cat III facility will never happen because it would be a complete waste of money as Cork 'fog' is frequently low cloud blowing across the runway at >20 knots. Add to that the fact that any autoland will flare at the hump and subsequently 'float' hopelessly down the short runway at 20' while losing speed at a rate matched only by the crews loss of bodily functions. Drop 40 - 60 tonnes 20' and see what you get.
It is not the fault of the IAA, DAA, CAA, GAA, or anyone else. Blame your local sleeveens who chose the site in the 50s. Cork will continue to pay for that decision.
Ryan2000
but also it's down to the fact that they are willing and able to carry out CAT2 approches unlike some of their competitors.
please spit it out, what are you really trying to say?
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CAT2 at Cork
One airline has a policy of not availing of the CAT 2 facility at Cork.
Another tells the media when questioned that their crews are CAT 2 rated but when Cork's RVR goes below CAT1 they invariably hold and/or divert.
Aer Rianta and the IAA have said in the past that's its down to
economics rather than technical difficulties that has prevented CAT 3 at Cork.
Given that they've only one airbridge and that a parallel taxiway is only a pipe dream, I doubt if we'll see CAT3 even in the distant future.
All part of the "t'will do" culture that has dominated Cork Airport for decades.
Another tells the media when questioned that their crews are CAT 2 rated but when Cork's RVR goes below CAT1 they invariably hold and/or divert.
Aer Rianta and the IAA have said in the past that's its down to
economics rather than technical difficulties that has prevented CAT 3 at Cork.
Given that they've only one airbridge and that a parallel taxiway is only a pipe dream, I doubt if we'll see CAT3 even in the distant future.
All part of the "t'will do" culture that has dominated Cork Airport for decades.
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Cat Ii V Cat Iii
This topic has come up in the past. Cork is an intresting airport in the fact that like Bristol is sits high up on a plateau, thus sometimes providing Low Vis Ops and associated RVRs with a howling crosswind.
Take for example a B737NG, it's crosswind limit is 15KTS with autoland, REGARDLESS of CAT II / III autoland, the fact remains the same, 15 knots, not much when you compare it's 35/33 depending if someone bent the wings CAT I.
So even if the difference is 50 feet RA and 100Ms, between CAT II and CAT III, chances are there's a roaring crosswind. Which is NOT the norm in Low Vis Opeartions. Hence I would think ORK think it's not financially viable to upgrade to CAT III.
The autoland system relies on a steady decreasing Radio Alt reading. Going from 50 feet and then hitting a mound givining a reading of 10ft within a second will stuff up the whole autoland sequence, as the Flare kicks in at 27feet RA. Now in Cork on R17 there's a fair olde ditch/slope whatever you want to call it, now I have not gone out and mapped it myself, I could look up the AIP, but on initially glance it does not look very conducive to an autoland.
On a runway in Zurich, there's a metal gantry before the threshold to provide a level surface CAT III ops, probably at some expence too, but that's Zurich, not Cork. Finally if you have a look at Manchester, one of the runways it CAT I and CAT III capable but NOT CAT II, because of a burren, (it's on the Jeppesens).
So in fairness to the people in Cork, I'm sure they have done their homework, and have decided to kick CAT III into touch. I don't subscribe to the point that they are just 'failing to get their finger out'.
My 2 cents.
Irishrover
Take for example a B737NG, it's crosswind limit is 15KTS with autoland, REGARDLESS of CAT II / III autoland, the fact remains the same, 15 knots, not much when you compare it's 35/33 depending if someone bent the wings CAT I.
So even if the difference is 50 feet RA and 100Ms, between CAT II and CAT III, chances are there's a roaring crosswind. Which is NOT the norm in Low Vis Opeartions. Hence I would think ORK think it's not financially viable to upgrade to CAT III.
The autoland system relies on a steady decreasing Radio Alt reading. Going from 50 feet and then hitting a mound givining a reading of 10ft within a second will stuff up the whole autoland sequence, as the Flare kicks in at 27feet RA. Now in Cork on R17 there's a fair olde ditch/slope whatever you want to call it, now I have not gone out and mapped it myself, I could look up the AIP, but on initially glance it does not look very conducive to an autoland.
On a runway in Zurich, there's a metal gantry before the threshold to provide a level surface CAT III ops, probably at some expence too, but that's Zurich, not Cork. Finally if you have a look at Manchester, one of the runways it CAT I and CAT III capable but NOT CAT II, because of a burren, (it's on the Jeppesens).
So in fairness to the people in Cork, I'm sure they have done their homework, and have decided to kick CAT III into touch. I don't subscribe to the point that they are just 'failing to get their finger out'.
My 2 cents.
Irishrover
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Irish Rover,
You'eve reminded me about the metal gantry. It was also stated some years ago that this would be neccessary at Cork for CAT3 to be installed.
Cork has had an excellent year weather wise so the argument is unlikely to resurfcace unless the big two EI and FR start losing a fortune in diversions. It's ultimately up to them rather than PPrune subscribers to put the pressure on.
You'eve reminded me about the metal gantry. It was also stated some years ago that this would be neccessary at Cork for CAT3 to be installed.
Cork has had an excellent year weather wise so the argument is unlikely to resurfcace unless the big two EI and FR start losing a fortune in diversions. It's ultimately up to them rather than PPrune subscribers to put the pressure on.
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how far would 07/25 have to be extended (westward, obviously) to allow an FR 738 (with/without winglets) to get in/out and avoid crosswinds. Currently 1,310m (4,297ft). It wouldn't need the full 2,133m (6,998ft) of 17/35 would it? Maybe EMAS at the far end in case?
Then, what would it cost to put CAT2 ILS on it and withstand the legal wrath of the houseowners under the flightpath?
Then, what would it cost to put CAT2 ILS on it and withstand the legal wrath of the houseowners under the flightpath?
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I reckon it's an error.
Although FR still haven't signalled how they will use the capacity freed up from HHN - FEZ (-2-4-6-).
Although I can't see such a stupid frequency working on a Hahn to Lübeck route. Also, that would still leave capacity over for another route.
Although FR still haven't signalled how they will use the capacity freed up from HHN - FEZ (-2-4-6-).
Although I can't see such a stupid frequency working on a Hahn to Lübeck route. Also, that would still leave capacity over for another route.
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Cork-Dublin
Ryanair's attempts to drive Aer Arann off the Cork-Dublin route don't seem to be working. They are introducing a seventh daily flight from next week, meaning they now have almost as many flights as they had before Ryanair began operating on the route. I guess passengers like the free newspapers, free coffee, and the flexiblity of 7 flights a day, 3 more than Ryanair.
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If Ryanair are not paying full charges on CRK/DUB at both Dublin and Cork it raises some interesting questions. From the Cork Airport route support scheme it clearly states that an existing route is not a qualifying route if the route has already been served within the previous 12 months at a frequency higher than 2 services per week on a year round basis. So, if FR are not paying full charges at both Dublin and Cork, why? and how is it justified? does it conform with EU legislation? Assuming they are paying full whack, and after the Easy debacle, and the CSA would it not be in the airport's best interest to introduce some sort of measures to protect existing carriers on routes if they are performing rather than allow ridiculous short time competition that may ultimately destroy the route. I understand that competition is healthy, but there are times it is not. Thankfully RE are doing well and seem to be winning out, but were FR to be victorious I can guarantee frequency would be slashed, and who's the loser? the airport, pax and the region. CAA have to realise that there is a limit to what its catchment area will support on any given route!
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I call you back
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how far would 07/25 have to be extended (westward, obviously) to allow an FR 738 (with/without winglets) to get in/out and avoid crosswinds. Currently 1,310m (4,297ft). It wouldn't need the full 2,133m (6,998ft) of 17/35 would it? Maybe EMAS at the far end in case?
Then, what would it cost to put CAT2 ILS on it and withstand the legal wrath of the houseowners under the flightpath?
Then, what would it cost to put CAT2 ILS on it and withstand the legal wrath of the houseowners under the flightpath?
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Italian Expansion
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The 'lets get Ryanair to update their map' game
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Ryanair Route Map
Other errors to add to those of anna_list above:
Shannon
Connection is to Valencia instead of Girona
Girona
Connecting line to Bristol is missing
Charleroi
Connection is to Trieste instead of Venice
Shannon
Connection is to Valencia instead of Girona
Girona
Connecting line to Bristol is missing
Charleroi
Connection is to Trieste instead of Venice
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Base in Poland?
What about base in Poland?
Any news about it? With expansion on the eastern european market FR should open base soon? I would say the base might be in WRO,KRK or possibly LCJ (only airport in poland which is not owned by gov)
Any news about it? With expansion on the eastern european market FR should open base soon? I would say the base might be in WRO,KRK or possibly LCJ (only airport in poland which is not owned by gov)
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Ryanair Summer 2007 timetable
Hypothesis:
"A couple of months ago Ryanair began thinking already about getting their Summer 2007 schedule online so that they could already start taking bookings, and having that very valuable "longtime-in-advance" cash, and not wanting to lose eager to book customers to competitors. However, the Summer 2007 schedules weren't ready of course. So then they decided to just make a carbon copy of the winter schedule and put that on sale. So people have been booking flights for Easter, May bank holiday weekends, weddings, holidays etc. but now in a few weeks Ryanair are going to release the real schedules, meaning that thousands upon thousands of booked customers will be receiving emails about changes to flight dates and times!
This of course is common practice and one might say entirely unsurprising. However, I am shocked by the extent of it this time. ALL routes have been on sale for Summer since ages already, 50% (?) could have the wrong times, with no sign yet of the real times!
"
Am I right?
"A couple of months ago Ryanair began thinking already about getting their Summer 2007 schedule online so that they could already start taking bookings, and having that very valuable "longtime-in-advance" cash, and not wanting to lose eager to book customers to competitors. However, the Summer 2007 schedules weren't ready of course. So then they decided to just make a carbon copy of the winter schedule and put that on sale. So people have been booking flights for Easter, May bank holiday weekends, weddings, holidays etc. but now in a few weeks Ryanair are going to release the real schedules, meaning that thousands upon thousands of booked customers will be receiving emails about changes to flight dates and times!
This of course is common practice and one might say entirely unsurprising. However, I am shocked by the extent of it this time. ALL routes have been on sale for Summer since ages already, 50% (?) could have the wrong times, with no sign yet of the real times!
"Am I right?